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Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

After the Great Depression of the 1930's taxes on the richest Americans went to 94% during World War II. After that prosperity reigned. In 1961, those taxes were 91% and Americans, through the 60s, had more purchasing power than we do now.
What the government could do is raise income taxes on the richest Americans (billionaires) to 99%, while exempting small business owners. Think there isn't anyone making over a Billion $ year in salaries ? There are. Parade magazine, each year, does a cover story on Americans' incomes, with their pictures and occupations. Two years ago, the highest income shown was John Arnold, a hedge fund manager (1.5 Billion/year). This year it was the CEO of Google - sorry, I forgot his name ($2 Billion/year). If these guys were taxed at 99%, they'd still be raking in 15 and 20 million a year respectively. I'd trade places with that, 99% tax bracket and all, and so would most Americans. That would create almost 110,000 jobs at $30,000/year each. Not a solution to all the unemployment, but a good steppingstone, and especially good if you're unemployed, and you happen to be one of those 110,000 people.
Also, the 110,000 would be high energy spenders in the stores (AKA the US economy), providing am additional boost for the economy, wheras very rich people don't spend much money (they already have everything), and what they do spend, has a very high % spent outside the United States (mostly Europe and the Caribbean), creating losses from the US economy, similar to remittances losse$ from illegal aliens.

One thing you are overlooking, with regard to the numbers, were the high amount of tax exemptions available back then. Most of these exemptions were removed as part of the Reagan tax reduction legislation of 1983(?).Some were left, and are still there, but nothing like back then.

So, the gist of the thing is that those percentages really didn't amount to much, because the rich had accountants, who used all those exemptions in order to circumvent all the high percentages.

If you are pretty young you will not be aware of this, but I am in my mid-sixties and remember all this well. So, we are not dealing with apples to apples. And believe me, the wealthy, who are making their money honestly, will always find a way to keep the tax man at bay. You would find a way too if you were in that situation.

The point you, and many others forget, is the most important point of all. THis money, if earned honestly, is their Property, and removing so much of their property is legalized theft, nothing more, and nothing less. Would you like for someone come to your home, and determine that your family owns two cars, which is one car too many, and you must therefor surrender one of your cars? You would be outraged wouldn't you? Yet many think it natural to steal property from others, simply because they have attained more than you.

Now that is Real Selfishness, if there ever was such. After all, that is what class envy really is: selfishness.
 
One thing you are overlooking, with regard to the numbers, were the high amount of tax exemptions available back then. Most of these exemptions were removed as part of the Reagan tax reduction legislation of 1983(?).Some were left, and are still there, but nothing like back then.

So, the gist of the thing is that those percentages really didn't amount to much, because the rich had accountants, who used all those exemptions in order to circumvent all the high percentages.

If you are pretty young you will not be aware of this, but I am in my mid-sixties and remember all this well. So, we are not dealing with apples to apples. And believe me, the wealthy, who are making their money honestly, will always find a way to keep the tax man at bay. You would find a way too if you were in that situation.

The point you, and many others forget, is the most important point of all. THis money, if earned honestly, is their Property, and removing so much of their property is legalized theft, nothing more, and nothing less. Would you like for someone come to your home, and determine that your family owns two cars, which is one car too many, and you must therefor surrender one of your cars? You would be outraged wouldn't you? Yet many think it natural to steal property from others, simply because they have attained more than you.

Now that is Real Selfishness, if there ever was such. After all, that is what class envy really is: selfishness.

I am 65 years old, I remember the 60's, the 50's, and even the 40's a little bit. Sure there were exemptions, and I stated that business owners could be exempt. As for the rich finding loopholes, sure they do, and that's what we're paying government officials for. To close those loopholes as soon as they find them. It's a cat & mouse game, but the rich win totally if you just don't engage, and then lose by default.
As for me, no, I wouldn't be comfortable sucking in a Billion/year. I'd know there's no way I could have earned that much, and I'd be depriving others (those employed in my company working for much less). My soul is a lot more valuable than excess wealth, which I would have no way of making use of anyway. How do you spend a Billion dollars ? More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, including Warren Buffet, to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration.
As for a Billion $ being earned and "their wealth, give me a break. No one can earn a Billion $. Not even military medal of honor winners who give up their lives could earn that much, and if they don't, these money-shark manipulators like John Howard sure don't. Speaking of legalized theft, that's pretty much what Howard and all his hedge fund buddies are doing. If anyone if legally stealing, it's them. So what is high taxation upon them ? It's kind of like if a pickpocket steals your wallet. You chase him down, and take your wallet full of money back from him. At that point, are you stealing his money ? No, you're taking back what was really yours to begin with. Same thing with taxation on the super rich. The workers earned it. They shouldn't have it stolen from them, just because some greed freak manipulators manage to toss big campaign contribution bucks to politicians (legal bribery) to allow them to do it.
Take a coal mine. Dozens of workers (some who die there) receive a tiny % of what one guy who owns the mine rakes in (who never sets foot in it). Fair ? About the farthest thing from it. Proper ? Not hardly.
 
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I am 65 years old, I remember the 60's, the 50's, and even the 40's a little bit. Sure there were exemptions, and I stated that business owners could be exempt. As for the rich finding loopholes, sure they do, and that's what we're paying government officials for. To close those loopholes as soon as they find them. It's a cat & mouse game, but the rich win totally if you just don't engage, and then lose by default.
As for me, no, I wouldn't be comfortable sucking in a Billion/year. I'd know there's no way I could have earned that much, and I'd be depriving others (those employed in my company working for much less). My soul is a lot more valuable than excess wealth, which I would have no way of making use of anyway. How do you spend a Billion dollars ? More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, including Warren Buffet, to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration.
As for a Billion $ being earned and "their wealth, give me a break. No one can earn a Billion $. Not even military medal of honor winners who give up their lives could earn that much, and if they don't, these money-shark manipulators like John Howard sure don't. Speaking of legalized theft, that's pretty much what Howard and all his hedge fund buddies are doing. If anyone if legally stealing, it's them. So what is high taxation upon them ? It's kind of like if a pickpocket steals your wallet. You chase him down, and take your wallet full of money back from him. At that point, are you stealing his money ? No, you're taking back what was really yours to begin with. Same thing with taxation on the super rich. The workers earned it. They shouldn't have it stolen from them, just because some greed freak manipulators manage to toss big campaign contribution bucks to politicians (legal bribery) to allow them to do it.
Take a coal mine. Dozens of workers (some who die there) receive a tiny % of what one guy who owns the mine rakes in (who never sets foot in it). Fair ? About the farthest thing from it. Proper ? Not hardly.

why do the parasite advocates talk about billionaires but target those making 200K-to a couple million with their schemes?
 
why do the parasite advocates talk about billionaires but target those making 200K-to a couple million with their schemes?

Why do the parasite advocates (ie. parasites upon the working class) talk about harm being done to the US economy, but don't mention the harm they impose on it, by hiring illegal aliens who extract tens of Billion$ from the US economy in remittances, + tens of Billion$ more in welfare payouts, via the anchor baby racket and use of false IDs ?

To fairly answer your question though, I hadn't heard of any top ceiling ("couple million") regarding Obama's tax plan. Last I heard, it didn't have any ceiling. As far as those making 250K and up, I haven't seen much sympathy coming to me from them, when I was earning $9.82/hour (not so long ago).
 
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Why do the parasite advocates (ie. parasites upon the working class) harm being done to the US economy but don't mention the harm they impose on it, by hiring illegal aliens who extract tens of Billion$ from the US economy in remittances + tens of Billion$ more in welfare payouts via the anchor baby racket and use of false IDs ?

To fairly answer your question though, I hadn't heard of any top ceiling ("couple million") regarding Obama's tax plan. Last I heard, it didn't have any ceiling. As far as those making 250K and up, I haven't seen much sympathy coming to me from them, when I was earning $9.82/hour (not so long ago).

more apples and oranges. envy permeates your posts as well. hiring illegals is not part of this issue I oppose the "anchor baby bit"
 
I am 65 years old, I remember the 60's, the 50's, and even the 40's a little bit. Sure there were exemptions, and I stated that business owners could be exempt. As for the rich finding loopholes, sure they do, and that's what we're paying government officials for. To close those loopholes as soon as they find them. It's a cat & mouse game, but the rich win totally if you just don't engage, and then lose by default.
As for me, no, I wouldn't be comfortable sucking in a Billion/year. I'd know there's no way I could have earned that much, and I'd be depriving others (those employed in my company working for much less). My soul is a lot more valuable than excess wealth, which I would have no way of making use of anyway. How do you spend a Billion dollars ? More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, including Warren Buffet, to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration.
As for a Billion $ being earned and "their wealth, give me a break. No one can earn a Billion $. Not even military medal of honor winners who give up their lives could earn that much, and if they don't, these money-shark manipulators like John Howard sure don't. Speaking of legalized theft, that's pretty much what Howard and all his hedge fund buddies are doing. If anyone if legally stealing, it's them. So what is high taxation upon them ? It's kind of like if a pickpocket steals your wallet. You chase him down, and take your wallet full of money back from him. At that point, are you stealing his money ? No, you're taking back what was really yours to begin with. Same thing with taxation on the super rich. The workers earned it. They shouldn't have it stolen from them, just because some greed freak manipulators manage to toss big campaign contribution bucks to politicians (legal bribery) to allow them to do it.
Take a coal mine. Dozens of workers (some who die there) receive a tiny % of what one guy who owns the mine rakes in (who never sets foot in it). Fair ? About the farthest thing from it. Proper ? Not hardly.

My compliments on your age. I'm just one year older. Now, perhaps you can work on a little concept like "Rule of Law" or "Sanctity of Property" before you take the long journey.

And while you may be uncomfortable with being a billionaire, it is a bit immature intellectually to wish to take this away from others, who are in fact legally earning it.

And here is another concept you need learn, since you believe they did not actually "earn" their wealth. Remember, there are two ways to work. One can 'work hard', or 'work smart', or both. You are only concentrating on the first one, and not the second. And perhaps you fail to realize that the 'work smart' part is all about one's time, which still belongs to the individual. And time is an individual's unit of value I believe.

And if one would throw out the right of Property, and Rule of Law, one would get perhaps what you yearn for. I, for one, prefer not to see it.
 
My compliments on your age. I'm just one year older. Now, perhaps you can work on a little concept like "Rule of Law" or "Sanctity of Property" before you take the long journey.

And while you may be uncomfortable with being a billionaire, it is a bit immature intellectually to wish to take this away from others, who are in fact legally earning it.

And here is another concept you need learn, since you believe they did not actually "earn" their wealth. Remember, there are two ways to work. One can 'work hard', or 'work smart', or both. You are only concentrating on the first one, and not the second. And perhaps you fail to realize that the 'work smart' part is all about one's time, which still belongs to the individual. And time is an individual's unit of value I believe.

And if one would throw out the right of Property, and Rule of Law, one would get perhaps what you yearn for. I, for one, prefer not to see it.

Perhaps your preference is at least a bit linked to your own degree of property ownership ? And if you had little property , and were a renter with a net worth of less than one grand, your preference then would be what ?
As for rule of law, give us a break. You're talking about law designed of, by, and for the rich, and I reiterate > no one can earn a billion dollars (in any way), and it's debateable if they can even "earn" a few million. One things for sure. Coal miners, firefighters, cops, and the troops in Afghanistan are earning their pay, and it's sad to see how little they draw while shysters like John Howard run off with 1.5 Billion, for what ? Manipulating people and money ? Gosh, what would we ever do without guys like him ? 99% ? Better make that 99.9%. The leech would still be coming out with 1.5 Million/year. So what's he going to do ? Gold plate all his bathroom fixtures ?
I'd rather see the money going to build spay/neuter clinics for stray cats. Seriously.
 
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You're willing to pay for them. Your premiums and the cost of care is effected by those who don't have insurance but get treatment they can't pay for. You're simply wrong factually if you think you don't pay for them.

Obamacare will increase the cost so we will be even worse off
 
Perhaps your preference is at least a bit linked to your own degree of property ownership ? And if you had little property , and were a renter with a net worth of less than one grand, your preference then would be what ?
As for rule of law, give us a break. You're talking about law designed of, by, and for the rich, and I reiterate > no one can earn a billion dollars (in any way), and it's debateable if they can even "earn" a few million. One things for sure. Coal miners, firefighters, cops, and the troops in Afghanistan are earning their pay, and it's sad to see how little they draw while shysters like John Howard run off with 1.5 Billion, for what ? Manipulating people and money ? Gosh, what would we ever do without guys like him ? 99% ? Better make that 99.9%. The leech would still be coming out with 1.5 Million/year. So what's he going to do ? Gold plate all his bathroom fixtures ?
I'd rather see the money going to build spay/neuter clinics for stray cats. Seriously.

applying one billionaire as the prototype of all those top 2% tax payers is akin to painting all black democrat politicians the same as Rangle or Cold Cash Jefferson or all white Democrats like Eliot Spitzer or Former NJ closet queen Governor McGreasey
 
applying one billionaire as the prototype of all those top 2% tax payers is akin to painting all black democrat politicians the same as Rangle or Cold Cash Jefferson or all white Democrats like Eliot Spitzer or Former NJ closet queen Governor McGreasey

Perhaps, that's that is what you were thinking, not me. As for those with a 0ne million/year income ? To say they shoud have their taxes reduced is nothing but pure shameless GREED.
I'd say their taxes ought to be raised significantly, especially in light of the deficit, and yes of course we need to not spend carelessly, but we need to avoid carelessness in how spending is cut as well. > Hands off Social Security except to strip it from the rich.
 
Perhaps, that's that is what you were thinking, not me. As for those with a 0ne million/year income ? To say they shoud have their taxes reduced is nothing but pure shameless GREED.
I'd say their taxes ought to be raised significantly, especially in light of the deficit, and yes of course we need to not spend carelessly, but we need to avoid carelessness in how spending is cut as well. > Hands off Social Security except to strip it from the rich.
1) the top 2% are all going to be treated the same meaning each additional dollar they get 40% will be taken out of it. be they are billionaire, a millionaire or someone with a salary over 200K a year

2) greed is demanding this group-that pays more than half the income taxes pay more while you and your ilk continue to receive tax breaks and most likely use far more than you pay for.

3) your hatred of the rich cries "FAILURE" rather loudly
 
The left is not credible. All we heard when Bush was president was the Bush tax cuts were for the rich. Now it is keep middle class tax cuts. How can it be both. Shows the lies and hypocrisy of the liberal Democrats
 
The left is not credible. All we heard when Bush was president was the Bush tax cuts were for the rich. Now it is keep middle class tax cuts. How can it be both. Shows the lies and hypocrisy of the liberal Democrats

its nothing more than vote buying nonsense.
 
I don't have a regular doctor I avoid them unless absolutly necassary.

I do the same thing and this is EXACTLY why Americans are unhealthier than people of other developed countries. Preventative care is vital for long life and health. We all should be seeing doctors regularly but many of us don't because it is too expensive. Sure, the co-pays aren't bad if you've got a decent plan but the only time you walk out of a doctor's office with just paying the co-pay is if nothing is wrong. If there is any chance of anything being wrong you need test done and those are very expensive. Middle class America (which is the large majority of Americans) can't afford the type of health care the Saudi royalty come over here to get but we also make too much money to qualify for Medicaid. I have a serious heart condition called cardiomyopathy. When I first got diagnosed with it several years back, many test were run and at the time I was in college so my sh***y college health insurance only paid for some of it and I was put thousands of dollars in debt which I'm still paying off. The last 6-12 months I've been having chest pains again but I'm not going to a doctor because I can't afford all of those test. I'm only working part time right now because I'm working on a masters degree right now and my wife is an independent contractor (and has lost 50% of her clients since the recession) so I'm paying for a health insurance plan out of my own pocket which has high deductibles and still only pays for a certain percentage of charges when that deductible has been reached. It is the only plan we can afford at the time, and yet, we make to much money to qualify for Medicaid.

Making points for or against Obamacare as a solution to our current health care problems is understandable. But trying to make an argument that the American health care system is efficient in providing affordable health care for working class Americans simply because rich people from other countries come to America to get treatment, is delusional.
 
It appears Obama is not willing to compromise. Yet he expects others to

Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts | Reuters

With time running out and high political and economic stakes, Obama is pushing Democratic leaders to determine if they can win an acceptable extension of the cuts, which he could sign into law.

Resurgent Republicans are demanding that all the tax cuts be renewed, including those for wealthier Americans -- individuals making more than $200,000 and families above$250,000.

Obama favors renewing the tax cuts only for those at or below those level, saying the nation cannot afford to renew them for wealthier Americans.

I'm just tired of having to rely on the middle-men for info on the tax-cuts. . .everything I've read on how they will affect things and who is touched by them is heavily opinionated.

I'd like an unbiased purely informational source - and have yet to find one. Which is typical of partisan-politic issue.
 
I do the same thing and this is EXACTLY why Americans are unhealthier than people of other developed countries. Preventative care is vital for long life and health. We all should be seeing doctors regularly but many of us don't because it is too expensive. Sure, the co-pays aren't bad if you've got a decent plan but the only time you walk out of a doctor's office with just paying the co-pay is if nothing is wrong. If there is any chance of anything being wrong you need test done and those are very expensive. Middle class America (which is the large majority of Americans) can't afford the type of health care the Saudi royalty come over here to get but we also make too much money to qualify for Medicaid. I have a serious heart condition called cardiomyopathy. When I first got diagnosed with it several years back, many test were run and at the time I was in college so my sh***y college health insurance only paid for some of it and I was put thousands of dollars in debt which I'm still paying off. The last 6-12 months I've been having chest pains again but I'm not going to a doctor because I can't afford all of those test. I'm only working part time right now because I'm working on a masters degree right now and my wife is an independent contractor (and has lost 50% of her clients since the recession) so I'm paying for a health insurance plan out of my own pocket which has high deductibles and still only pays for a certain percentage of charges when that deductible has been reached. It is the only plan we can afford at the time, and yet, we make to much money to qualify for Medicaid.

Making points for or against Obamacare as a solution to our current health care problems is understandable. But trying to make an argument that the American health care system is efficient in providing affordable health care for working class Americans simply because rich people from other countries come to America to get treatment, is delusional.

That is why insurance companies are doing things to correct it. Obama is just causing problems
 
I'm just tired of having to rely on the middle-men for info on the tax-cuts. . .everything I've read on how they will affect things and who is touched by them is heavily opinionated.

I'd like an unbiased purely informational source - and have yet to find one. Which is typical of partisan-politic issue.

You mean like the democrats claiming Bush tax cuts were only for the rich yet now they are talking about middle class tax cuts. Shows how the democrats lied and what hypocrites they are
 
You mean like the democrats claiming Bush tax cuts were only for the rich yet now they are talking about middle class tax cuts. Shows how the democrats lied and what hypocrites they are

Have an unbiased source for that?

My problem is that I can real the regulations, legislations and laws - but making sense out of tax-related things isn't quite the easiest or me.
And when it comes to tax legislation there's often a game of chance on the table.
 
Have an unbiased source for that?

My problem is that I can real the regulations, legislations and laws - but making sense out of tax-related things isn't quite the easiest or me.
And when it comes to tax legislation there's often a game of chance on the table.

Source for what? For all the Bush years thats all we heard was Bush tax cuts were for the rich.

Dems, GOP give tax cuts political twist / Both sides spin issue in effort to gain edge in election year - SFGate

Children, widows, the elderly, farmers, veterans, students, working mothers -- every vulnerable group short of puppies -- is to be sacrificed at the altar of the Bush tax cuts that benefit America's richest citizens, Democrats claim.
 
Have an unbiased source for that?

My problem is that I can real the regulations, legislations and laws - but making sense out of tax-related things isn't quite the easiest or me.
And when it comes to tax legislation there's often a game of chance on the table.

No sources. but for years all I heard from the Dems was how the Bush tax cuts only benefited the rich. Then when they were due to expire, all of a sudden they changed their tune and wanted to keep the tax cuts for the middle class.
I remember thinking (sarcastically) gee.....I thought Bush only cared about the rich.
 
Well that demonstrates my point exactly.

Everything we hear we're suppose to take from a variety of sources with no means of actualy being able to back it up.

I've read the various legislations in question - and none of it makes sense to me - I have to concede to those who know more than I do but how to tell if their info is actually accurate? :shrug:
 
Well that demonstrates my point exactly.

Everything we hear we're suppose to take from a variety of sources with no means of actualy being able to back it up.

I've read the various legislations in question - and none of it makes sense to me - I have to concede to those who know more than I do but how to tell if their info is actually accurate? :shrug:

I posted a link that shows the democrats used the rhetoric to campaign
 
Obamacare will increase the cost so we will be even worse off

Depends on what you call worse. Cost is but half the equation. Paying more for more is better than paying more for less, which is where we are now. Though, before all is said and done, this may not actually cost more. We'll have to see what goes on from here.
 
That is why insurance companies are doing things to correct it. Obama is just causing problems

That is honestly the worst rebuttal to an argument I've ever heard. That might convince one of your children, but on a debate politics forum you're going to have to actual provide an educated rebuttal with some sources. Please list exactly what insurance companies are doing to "correct it", explain why a business would do anything that doesn't profit the company monetarily, and why their measures to correct the problem would be more effective than "Obamacare" in getting health care for children with preexisting conditions, making sure patience with terminal illnesses such as cancer can't get dropped from their plans.
 
It appears Obama is not willing to compromise. Yet he expects others to

Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts | Reuters

With time running out and high political and economic stakes, Obama is pushing Democratic leaders to determine if they can win an acceptable extension of the cuts, which he could sign into law.

Resurgent Republicans are demanding that all the tax cuts be renewed, including those for wealthier Americans -- individuals making more than $200,000 and families above$250,000.

Obama favors renewing the tax cuts only for those at or below those level, saying the nation cannot afford to renew them for wealthier Americans.

wasn't this supposed to be one of the items that the Oh So Brilliant One The Smartest President Ever was going to use to split the Republicans?
 
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