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Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bombin

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

This is to be expected and you can count on more of it, because of the number of Anti-American leftists in this Country who hate America.

It can be seen in post right here every day.

The defense never contested that Ghailani knew some of the plotters. But it claimed he was in the dark about their sinister intentions.
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Under our laws if you are at the wheel of a car and a couple of friends say hey "Bob" pull up to that liquor store over there and they go inside and rob it and kill the clerk in the process you will be tried for murder just like the guy who pulls the trigger.

In for a penny in for a pound in the law and this is a joke.

Hopefully some of the general prison population will administer some prison yard justice.

Normally I'd be apposed to vengeance but when you murder over 200 people I make an exception.

Those of you who seem to rejoice in this verdict need to decide if you are going to be Americans or not and so far you're not in my book.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

The word ‘cleared’ in the headline seems inappropriate to me. Juries don't clear defendants.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Chappy said:
The word ‘cleared’ in the headline seems inappropriate to me. Juries don't clear defendants.
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Wasn't my headline. I was just trying to follow the Breaking News rules. Maybe you should complain to Fox although I have seen others using the same terminology. :roll:

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Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Hatuey said:
This guy could have been sent to the electric chair and people here would still be complaining because they're not lynching him first.
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my only complaint would be if it were done with great fanfare, publicly, feeding the celebrity function of martyrdom.

have him shot out back one day, and thrown in a random hole in the dirt; no one ever to know. that is how you handle these people.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Councilman said:
Hopefully some of the general prison population will administer some prison yard justice.

Normally I'd be apposed to vengeance but when you murder over 200 people I make an exception.
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bingo. my thoughts on this is that i am in favor of rule of law

.... but terrorists remove themselves from the protection of such system.s

Those of you who seem to rejoice in this verdict need to decide if you are going to be Americans or not and so far you're not in my book.
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when you are cheering for the enemy.......


yeah.....
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

TOJ said:
His guilt or innocence or how long he will be in prison is irrelevant. My point is that this is another indication of the incompetence of the Obama administration.

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Personally, I see this as the incompetence of the Bush administration for using torture on these prisoners, and so tainting any confessions they have made.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

samsmart said:
Personally, I see this as the incompetence of the Bush administration for using torture on these prisoners, and so tainting any confessions they have made.
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I cannot believe how naive you and others here really are
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

samsmart said:
Personally, I see this as the incompetence of the Bush administration for using torture on these prisoners, and so tainting any confessions they have made.
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Actually, the Bush Admin never had the intent to do anything so foolish as to bring up these clowns in a civilian court. That's all Obumbles. To point out just one anomaly that occured with the civilian jury, look to the verdict. Guilty of conspiracy to blow up the buildings, but not guilty of conspracy to kill the folks inside the building. That is a product of one thing ..... verdict trading in the jury room so as to deliver a finding of guilt on at least one charge .. and that is all they got .. UNO !

Secondly, the rules of evidence are more forgiving with a Military Commision or Tribunal. We won't know how much difference it would have made, although I suspect the verdict(s) would have been more encompassing with 3-5 military judges instead of this half-baked jury.

Its a political fail for Obama. He sits with Gitmo not close to closing, with no further direction on the KSM trial (and others). This trial and verdict did nothing to support his campaign rhetoric, or move anything along more to the liberal foolishness he once professed regarding all of this. This is what you get with dumbasses running the show.
 
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Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

cpwill said:
i think this ought to thoroughly demonstrate the foolishness of the idea that we should haul these guys in front of a civilian court with civilian rules of evidence. the damming evidence all got thrown out because it was connected to enhanced interrogation; and now we barely manage to keep a guy who had (at the time of capture) been involved in coordinating multiple mass-casualty high-visibility attacks, had bomb-building supplies in his possession and had near real-time intelligence of many of AQ's highest leadership?

what a mess.
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20 years to life is not "barely keeping" someone.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Deuce said:
20 years to life is not "barely keeping" someone.
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But getting him on one charge out of 288 is "skin of the teeth". That is just barely in anyone's book. Cannot get any closer to complete incompetence than that.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Eighty Deuce said:
But getting him on one charge out of 288 is "skin of the teeth". That is just barely in anyone's book. Cannot get any closer to complete incompetence than that.
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No, it isn't, because that's a stupid way to measure the justice system that you only came up with because it conveniently allows you to blame Obama. We don't measure justice based on convictions, we measure justice based on what actually happened, what we can prove.

He was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of a crime that gives him 20 to life. Given the situation and the outcome, probably life.

He didn't plant the bombs. He didn't detonate them. If I hand you a gun, and you use it to go kill someone, it's pretty hard to convict me of murder. You have to prove that I was in on the specific plot to kill that dastardly Brett Favre (and his horrible interception throwing ways *shakes fist*). Given that much of the evidence was tainted, that's pretty much impossible. Evidence obtained under torture is not evidence, people will say anything to get the pain to stop. They'll turn in their own, innocent mother.

I'd bet 20 bucks he knew exactly what was being done with those bombs, but the evidence to prove it wasn't there. That's the American justice system. You have to be proven guilty of a charge to be convicted of it. Or do you think we should revisit that idea?

He's going to get life in prison. The rest is just paperwork.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Eighty Deuce said:
Actually, the Bush Admin never had the intent to do anything so foolish as to bring up these clowns in a civilian court. That's all Obumbles. To point out just one anomaly that occured with the civilian jury, look to the verdict. Guilty of conspiracy to blow up the buildings, but not guilty of conspracy to kill the folks inside the building. That is a product of one thing ..... verdict trading in the jury room so as to deliver a finding of guilt on at least one charge .. and that is all they got .. UNO !
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Yes, because the accused wasn't given a speedy trial, and much of the evidence against him was tainted by the torture he went through.

If instead of being held in Guantanamo for so long the accused was brought to trial while witness was still alive, evidence was fresher, and any comments he made wasn't coerced out of him with the use of force, it may have been more likely for a jury to find him guilty of those other counts.

Eighty Deuce said:
Secondly, the rules of evidence are more forgiving with a Military Commision or Tribunal. We won't know how much difference it would have made, although I suspect the verdict(s) would have been more encompassing with 3-5 military judges instead of this half-baked jury.
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If all you wanted was a conviction, then sure. If you want justice, then no. We don't allow statements presented as evidence through coercion of violence for a reason. So which is more important to you?

Eighty Deuce said:
Its a political fail for Obama. He sits with Gitmo not close to closing, with no further direction on the KSM trial (and others). This trial and verdict did nothing to support his campaign rhetoric, or move anything along more to the liberal foolishness he once professed regarding all of this. This is what you get with dumbasses running the show.
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And yet it is still better than the alternatives presented to us last election.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

obama and holder, if you think about it, are really very lucky the creep wasn't completely acquitted

because both have said several times that even if those they try in new york civil court, before the equivalent of lance ito, are acquitted, THEY WILL STILL BE DETAINED

'Heads I Win, Tails You Lose': In 9/11 Case, KSM Won't Walk Free Even If Found Not Guilty - Newsweek

kinda defeats the whole purpose, no?

remember when boneheaded obama all but guaranteed that ksm would be EXECUTED?

Obama: 9/11 Mastermind Will Get the Death Penalty in NY | NBC New York

are you sure these people know what they're doing?
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

samsmart said:
Yes, because the accused wasn't given a speedy trial, and much of the evidence against him was tainted by the torture he went through.

If instead of being held in Guantanamo for so long the accused was brought to trial while witness was still alive, evidence was fresher, and any comments he made wasn't coerced out of him with the use of force, it may have been more likely for a jury to find him guilty of those other counts.
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This is war. This asshole was an illegal combatant. Our civilian court system was not built to deal with foreign terrorists. It was modeled to protect the Constitutional rights of Americans, which are far more extensive than those of illegal combatants. It is precisely why we have Military Commissions and Tribunals. Duh.


If all you wanted was a conviction, then sure. If you want justice, then no. We don't allow statements presented as evidence through coercion of violence for a reason. So which is more important to you?
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If I wanted a conviction ? Look a post or two above this to be reminded how Holder guaranteed that KSM would be executed as the result of a civilian trial, and kept imprisoned regardless. I'm not the one looking for a railroad to execution here, much less guaranteeing one (do you not have a problem with Hoolder on that ?). But I do realize how civilian court process is not suited for this. Duh #2


And yet it is still better than the alternatives presented to us last election.
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Speak no evil. See no evil. Hear no evil. Obama is a fail compared to his own rhetoric and oath. Regardless of paths not taken. Duh #3.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Eighty Deuce said:
This is war. This asshole was an illegal combatant. Our civilian court system was not built to deal with foreign terrorists. It was modeled to protect the Constitutional rights of Americans, which are far more extensive than those of illegal combatants. It is precisely why we have Military Commissions and Tribunals. Duh.


If I wanted a conviction ? Look a post or two above this to be reminded how Holder guaranteed that KSM would be executed as the result of a civilian trial, and kept imprisoned regardless. I'm not the one looking for a railroad to execution here, much less guaranteeing one (do you not have a problem with Hoolder on that ?). But I do realize how civilian court process is not suited for this. Duh #2




Speak no evil. See no evil. Hear no evil. Obama is a fail compared to his own rhetoric and oath. Regardless of paths not taken. Duh #3.
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Yawn … for this useless post.

The American justice system has convicted the likes of the blind sheik, et al.; they are tucked away in our prison system to this day. Shame on you for senselessly attacking America and our way of life.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Chappy said:
Yawn … for this useless post.

The American justice system has convicted the likes of the blind sheik, et al.; they are tucked away in our prison system to this day. Shame on you for senselessly attacking America and our way of life.
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Our Justice System has also let a lot of guilty folks walk. But that is not the issue here unless one is senseless ;)

The issue is the choice of format and venue. Are you saying that Military Tribunals and Commissions, as authorized by our Constitution and our Legislatures and our Executive Branch and our Judicial, is not a part of our "Justice System" ? Are the libtards here that naive ?

Our civil courts are designed based on the Constitutional rights afforded our citizens, both the victim and the accused. Tribunals and Commissions are designed on the very limited Constitutionsl rights afforded enemey combatants, and because of their flexibility, treaty obligations found in such as the Geneva Conventions, where applicable. That someone acting as a terrorist might find themselves in the very unenviable position of being an "illegal combatant" within our system is their problem.

Note how Obama, desptie all the election rhetoric, is now loathe to use the Civil Court system. Thanks for your useless post though ;)
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Eighty Deuce said:
Our Justice System has also let a lot of guilty folks walk. But that is not the issue here unless one is senseless ;)

The issue is the choice of format and venue. Are you saying that Military Tribunals and Commissions, as authorized by our Constitution and our Legislatures and our Executive Branch and our Judicial, is not a part of our "Justice System" ? Are the libtards here that naive ?

Our civil courts are designed based on the Constitutional rights afforded our citizens, both the victim and the accused. Tribunals and Commissions are designed on the very limited Constitutionsl rights afforded enemey combatants, and because of their flexibility, treaty obligations found in such as the Geneva Conventions, where applicable. That someone acting as a terrorist might find themselves in the very unenviable position of being an "illegal combatant" within our system is their problem.

Note how Obama, desptie all the election rhetoric, is now loathe to use the Civil Court system. Thanks for your useless post though ;)
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So, you're saying rights only apply to some people. Ok.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

The American justice system does not dispense justice solely to American citizens but to all persons under our nation's jurisdiction; our constitution and laws provide certain rights and opportunities to all those within the system.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Chappy said:
Yawn … for this useless post.

The American justice system has convicted the likes of the blind sheik, et al.; they are tucked away in our prison system to this day. Shame on you for senselessly attacking America and our way of life.
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The Blind Sheik didn't murder anyone, either; and there was no question that he was going to die in prison.

But, that's before the Keystone Cops took over the government.

Chappy said:
The American justice system does not dispense justice solely to American citizens but to all persons under our nation's jurisdiction; our constitution and laws provide certain rights and opportunities to all those within the system.
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You want to extend those rights to the very people who wish to destroy those rights. That's counter-productive.
 
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Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

samsmart said:
Personally, I see this as the incompetence of the Bush administration for using torture on these prisoners, and so tainting any confessions they have made.
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There was no torture.

This isn't even "waterboarding isn't torture." He wasn't waterboarded.

He wasn't tortured, AT ALL.

If you believe he was, what was done to him, how, and when?
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

apdst said:
The Blind Sheik didn't murder anyone, either; and there was no question that he was going to die in prison.

But, that's before the Keystone Cops took over the government.



You want to extend those rights to the very people who wish to destroy those rights. That's counter-productive.
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I just love it when someone from the most liberal state in the country, one that has among the highest unemployment rates and is basically bankrupt telling anyone that disagrees with them how wrong they are. They should get their own house in order before telling the rest of us what is right or wrong in this country. Looks to me like the California results don't support their claims on any issue.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Chappy said:
Yawn … for this useless post.

The American justice system has convicted the likes of the blind sheik, et al.; they are tucked away in our prison system to this day. Shame on you for senselessly attacking America and our way of life.
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Actually many Americans are dissatisfied with the way this case was handled and Islamic terrorism is an international problem, not one exclusive to the United States.
So when the US botches up a case of this importance it effects everyone. OBL must be chortling in his cave.

It seems that part of the decision at having this mass murderer tried in a civilian court was to show the world how transparent and wonderful the US Justice system was and that, with everyone admiring them, there would be less terrorism. Everyone would just love all that America represents.

But now a mass murderer is found not guilty of mass murder and the innocent American public are being publicly fondled and personally prodded by the bureaucracy. Had the Obama administration been as keen on convicting mass murderers as they are on convicting the American public, by ignoring the "probable cause" statute, the United States would be seen as a serious nation. Now they are justifiably perceived as the weak horse, and that is dangerous for everyone.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Chappy said:
The American justice system does not dispense justice solely to American citizens but to all persons under our nation's jurisdiction; our constitution and laws provide certain rights and opportunities to all those within the system.
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And what a bunch of scmucks you are for that.
 
Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

OscarB63 said:
life in prison...yeah minor.
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Isn't it 20 yrs to life. Eric Holder said, "we can not fail", but trying them in civilian court makes it too easy to get off on technicalities. A military tribunal might have accepted the testimony of one of the witnesses that got kicked out in the civilian court. The military court has rules, of course, but it may have been harder to get off on all those counts.

What say you?
 
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