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Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

If waterboarding is a war crime, then there are a lot of US military personnel and US political leaders that will have to be put on trial as well, including Slick Willy Clinton because we waterboarded our own troops as a training exercise, and he was (a sad) Commander in Chief.

This implies a poor understanding of the topic at hand, zimmer, unless you are being utterly disingenuous. Do you seriously not see the difference between forcible water-boarding for interrogation purposes (a war crime) and water-boarding that has been consented to for training purposes (not a war crime)?
 
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This is the most moronic defense you can imagine.

The exact same action on two separate groups of people... in one instance is torture, the other not?

That is what you call malleable justice.

Either it is torture or it is not.

You just proved it is not.

Thanks.

.

Not mine. You're calling the person who runs the program moronic as it is his claim.

Fifth and most important, SERE is voluntary. “Students can withdraw from training,” Ogrisseg noted. In a report issued four months ago, the Armed Services Committee added that in SERE, “students are even given a special phrase they can use to immediately stop” any ordeal. The report concluded:

The SERE schools employ strict controls to reduce the risk of physical and psychological harm to students during training. Those controls include medical and psychological screening for students, interventions by trained psychologists during training, and code words to ensure that students can stop the application of a technique at any time should the need arise. Those same controls are not present in real world interrogations.

The Jury Talks Back » Why SERE Training is Essentially Different Than Torture

I'll get you more when I get back.

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/pdf/12112008_detaineeabuse.pdf
 
Not mine. You're calling the person who runs the program moronic as it is his claim.

Fifth and most important, SERE is voluntary. “Students can withdraw from training,” Ogrisseg noted. In a report issued four months ago, the Armed Services Committee added that in SERE, “students are even given a special phrase they can use to immediately stop” any ordeal. The report concluded:

The SERE schools employ strict controls to reduce the risk of physical and psychological harm to students during training. Those controls include medical and psychological screening for students, interventions by trained psychologists during training, and code words to ensure that students can stop the application of a technique at any time should the need arise. Those same controls are not present in real world interrogations.

The Jury Talks Back » Why SERE Training is Essentially Different Than Torture

I'll get you more when I get back.

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/pdf/12112008_detaineeabuse.pdf




Can a trainee say no mas once it starts? :prof
 
The US government executed Japanese soldiers for torture. They waterboarder US soldiers. The US viewed waterboarding as torture

This is quite misleading. The Japanese were executed for many serious crimes, some of which might have included waterboarding. But if your intent is to put down the United States, while gaining sympathy for terrorists and brain-washed Japanese crazies, this is also a good route to take.

B-29 CREWS TORTURED BY THE JAPANESE - Page 2
 
This implies a poor understanding of the topic at hand, zimmer, unless you are being utterly disingenuous. Do you seriously not see the difference between forcible water-boarding for interrogation purposes (a war crime) and water-boarding that has been consented to for training purposes (not a war crime)?

If it is torture, it doesn't matter when or where it occurs.

It is torture.

.
 
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What about the obvious possibility of permanent psychological damage?

Guys like KSM had serious psychological damage before they even entered the waterboarding area.

We're talking major terrorists here. You think they are normal?
 
If it is torture, it doesn't matter when it occurs.

It is torture.

.

It doesn't matter when it occurs, it matters how it occurs. With consent or not. It's the difference between stealing and being given a gift. One is done without consent, one is done with consent.

Honestly, zimmer, where is the communication breakdown happening here?
 
If and when Amnesty International starts calling for the prosecution of the UN for all the rapes and murders its members have committed, I might take them seriously. Until then they can shut the hell up, this is nothing more than partisan bull****tery
 
It doesn't matter when it occurs, it matters how it occurs. With consent or not. It's the difference between stealing and being given a gift. One is done without consent, one is done with consent.

Honestly, zimmer, where is the communication breakdown happening here?

Theft and a gift... ROTFLOL, is that your best analogy? That's a terrible one.

So... it's OK to waterboard our troops, but not our enemies that have valauble info that could save thousands or hundreds-of-thousands of lives?

ROTFLOL.

Torture is torture. Burning our troops would be torture and punishable, as it would be with our enemies.

There is no time you can torture one group with or without their consent, and not consider it not torture.

Torture is or is not. It is not selective.

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obviously not. there was nothing in the post he referenced that was in any way bigotted.

I certainly didn't see bigotry, which is probably why he neither quoted it or responded directly. It's a too typical response from the slight of wit.
 
Theft and a gift... ROTFLOL, is that your best analogy? That's a terrible one.

So... it's OK to waterboard our troops, but not our enemies that have valauble info that could save thousands or hundreds-of-thousands of lives?

ROTFLOL.

Torture is torture. Burning our troops would be torture and punishable, as it would be with our enemies.

There is no time you can torture one group with or without their consent, and not consider it not torture.

Torture is or is not. It is not selective.

.

I once read the argument that all sex was rape. Your post reminded me of that.
 
It doesn't matter when it occurs, it matters how it occurs. With consent or not. It's the difference between stealing and being given a gift. One is done without consent, one is done with consent.

Honestly, zimmer, where is the communication breakdown happening here?

In a time of war killing is done without consent also, as is causing serious bodily injury and name calling.

Is it only the Americans who need consent or does that rule apply to terrorists as well?
 
The SERE schools employ strict controls to reduce the risk of physical and psychological harm to students during training. Those controls include medical and psychological screening for students, interventions by trained psychologists during training, and code words to ensure that students can stop the application of a technique at any time should the need arise. Those same controls are not present in real world interrogations.

Terrorists have code word to make the interrogation stop as well. The secret word is--INFORMATION.
 
Theft and a gift... ROTFLOL, is that your best analogy? That's a terrible one.

It's the same principle. It's the difference between assault and boxing. Or between rape and sex. Take your pick.

Please explain to me how you don't get the analogy. It seems like it is going over your head, and I would like to help you understand it.

So... it's OK to waterboard our troops, but not our enemies that have valauble info that could save thousands or hundreds-of-thousands of lives?

Yes.

ROTFLOL.

Torture is torture. Burning our troops would be torture and punishable, as it would be with our enemies.

There is no time you can torture one group with or without their consent, and not consider it not torture.

Torture is or is not. It is not selective.

.

An act is only torture when it is performed without the consent of the person the act is performed on. In one case, we're talking about forcible waterboarding of a victim being the war crime of torture. In another case we're talking about the consented to waterboarding of military trainees as part of a training exercise. The difference is a stark as day and night whether you want to admit it or not.
 
I once read the argument that all sex was rape. Your post reminded me of that.

Another poor analogy.

Theft is theft.
Perjury is perjury. Oops! Correction. If you're a Lib Pres, and it's about sex... then it's OK.
Pregnancy is pregnancy. Ok, you can abort, but you can't undo torture.
Torture is torture.

And the hilarious bit is in the Libs eyes we can "torture" our troops, but not our enemies.

ROTFLOL.

You folks are endless entertainment.

.
 
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Screw the torture allegations.

Bush and his administration lied about Iraq. There were no weapons of mass destruction. It was all a lie, and they knew it. They knew there was nothing there. And that's what Bush and his entire administration should be held accountable for.
 
Terrorists have code word to make the interrogation stop as well. The secret word is--INFORMATION.

Where did you get this information?

When have the terrorists ever ceased interrogation and what information were they seeking?

In fact the job of a terrorist is, by clear definition, to spread terror. That's why they decapitated so many innocent people. It was to terrify any opposition to their political agenda and, in fact, it's proving to be a remarkable success.
 
funny, they skipped this chapter in our briefing. :shrug:

yeah, mine too. you could "opt out" of the training and wash out of the class but once the event had begun you were "in it to win it".

this last deployment. I wasn't given an option to skip the taser and pepper spray training. one could argue that tazing and pepper spraying is torture.
 
Screw the torture allegations.

Bush and his administration lied about Iraq. There were no weapons of mass destruction. It was all a lie, and they knew it. They knew there was nothing there. And that's what Bush and his entire administration should be held accountable for.



Lied is a strong word. If he lied so did ALL of these folks.


If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People -- Version 3.0 - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)
 
Screw the torture allegations.

Bush and his administration lied about Iraq. There were no weapons of mass destruction. It was all a lie, and they knew it. They knew there was nothing there. And that's what Bush and his entire administration should be held accountable for.

Do you know and understand that world leaders everywhere believed Saddam Hussein to have WMD and it was Saddam's responsibility to demonstrate he didn't?

Perhaps if you repeat a lie often enough it will eventually become the truth. This is not the first time it's happened.
 
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