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George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

A pass, no. I didn't accept it, so there was no pass. We can't fight all fights, so some pick and choose is always going to take palce. However, trying to justify torture, something I see as evil, is much different than fudging numbers on how many jobs were saved. Between the two, I see the torture one as more important to address and argue about.



No one suggested short sightedness. But there are ususaly short term and long term goals and efforts. Obama made clear the stimulaus was of the short term variety.




No, it won't be resolved, not after the election. Things will likely get bad for students, which may insire many to ebcome involved again. We'll see. But the state will nto likely help much.




As those people spend and buy, pay their bills and aren't losing their homes, I suspect it helps more than it hurts. For the short term, it has been a positive.

Not surprising you didn't answer the question. Was the stimulus program sold on the basis of saving jobs that are state responsibility? how do you know that the states wouldn't have saved those jobs?
 
Actually shows how big a liar and scum bag he is. The British are denying everything he said, and if it stand believing a known liar (Bush) and the Blair/Brown administration and its people, ... well no contest there.

Here's what the head of MI6 Sir John Sawers said: "If we know or believe action by us will lead to torture taking place, we're required by UK and international law to avoid that action, and we do, even though that allows that terrorist activity to go ahead".

Very noble, even though there'll be a lot of dead Brits as a result.

The attitude of George Bush reflects that of the American people, and certainly the now President of the United States.

"It doesn't matter how people perceive me in England. It just doesn't matter any more. And frankly, at times, it didn't matter then," he said.

Britain has been the source of terrorism more than once on the United States and we can easily see why.
 
Here's what the head of MI6 Sir John Sawers said: "If we know or believe action by us will lead to torture taking place, we're required by UK and international law to avoid that action, and we do, even though that allows that terrorist activity to go ahead".

Very noble, even though there'll be a lot of dead Brits as a result.

The attitude of George Bush reflects that of the American people, and certainly the now President of the United States.

"It doesn't matter how people perceive me in England. It just doesn't matter any more. And frankly, at times, it didn't matter then," he said.

Britain has been the source of terrorism more than once on the United States and we can easily see why.

GW Bush did what was required to keep this country safe after 9/11. There is only one thing that terrorists fear and that is a strong President of the United States who does anything required to keep the American people safe. I have yet of see any liberal admit when they are wrong on any issue let alone who our enemy is and what their goals are. Thank you, President Bush, for keeping us safe and for being a strong American leader on the issue of national security.
 
GW Bush did what was required to keep this country safe after 9/11. There is only one thing that terrorists fear and that is a strong President of the United States who does anything required to keep the American people safe. I have yet of see any liberal admit when they are wrong on any issue let alone who our enemy is and what their goals are. Thank you, President Bush, for keeping us safe and for being a strong American leader on the issue of national security.
Bush ignored the Aug 6, 2001 PDB "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" and Bust did exactly what bin Laden wanted which was to declare war against Islam.
 
A pass, no. I didn't accept it, so there was no pass. We can't fight all fights, so some pick and choose is always going to take palce.

So are you saying that you are ideologically driven?

However, trying to justify torture, something I see as evil, is much different than fudging numbers on how many jobs were saved. Between the two, I see the torture one as more important to address and argue about.

Justification is something that is human nature. I am sure that many feel that boosting the deficit nearly four times that of any other President for what you yourself term as a "short term" fix is equally disturbing. BTW, can you point to any documentation of torture other than the three men that were water boarded in GITMO that was excused by Bush or his administration?

No one suggested short sightedness. But there are ususaly short term and long term goals and efforts. Obama made clear the stimulaus was of the short term variety.

No, that is not quite true is it now? In fact, he touted this as a fix that would keep unemployment under 8% did he not? In fact did he not say that this stimulus was needed to keep America from falling into depression? And then splayed out the spending of this for two years hoping that the fix would hit in time for this election cycle? That's short sighted, not short term is it not?

No, it won't be resolved, not after the election. Things will likely get bad for students, which may insire many to ebcome involved again. We'll see. But the state will nto likely help much.

That's a shame. If there were only something that Academia could do themselves to stave off the pain to students. Oh, I see you named only the students, will the staff suffer as well?

As those people spend and buy, pay their bills and aren't losing their homes, I suspect it helps more than it hurts. For the short term, it has been a positive.

Again, not a fix then is it? More a band aid, and a Trillion dollar one at that.....I don't know about you, but that isn't what America thought they were getting.

j-mac
 
Bush ignored the Aug 6, 2001 PDB "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" and Bust did exactly what bin Laden wanted which was to declare war against Islam.

So, should the US had what? Ignored the problem?

j-mac
 
Bush ignored the Aug 6, 2001 PDB "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" and Bust did exactly what bin Laden wanted which was to declare war against Islam.


this is asinine. War against islam? Please stop with the hysterical conspiracy theories.
 
Bush ignored the Aug 6, 2001 PDB "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" and Bust did exactly what bin Laden wanted which was to declare war against Islam.

The PDB was 12/04/98 which of course you ignored. So tell me what GW Bush was legally allowed to do that would have prevented 9/11 in light of the 12/04/98 PDB? Selective outrage on your part.
 
So, should the US had what? Ignored the problem?

j-mac

He essentially did. Iraq didn't attack, 15 of the 19 highjackers were from Saudi Arabia. Bush let bin Laden get away in Tora Bora.
 
He essentially did. Iraq didn't attack, 15 of the 19 highjackers were from Saudi Arabia. Bush let bin Laden get away in Tora Bora.

Keep re-writing history and you don't even do it well. Bush wasn't at Tora Bora, our commanders were.
 
The PDB was 12/04/98 which of course you ignored. So tell me what GW Bush was legally allowed to do that would have prevented 9/11 in light of the 12/04/98 PDB? Selective outrage on your part.

What this PDB you speak of? I thought PDB's were top secret?
 
What this PDB you speak of? I thought PDB's were top secret?

This is the PDB posted in the 9/11 Commission report. So in the face of that PDB what should Bush have done in August 2001? You sure have a lot "invested" in demonizing Bush. Wonder why?
 
This is the PDB posted in the 9/11 Commission report. So in the face of that PDB what should Bush have done in August 2001? You sure have a lot "invested" in demonizing Bush. Wonder why?
What the hell did it say? Where is the text?
 
What the hell did it say? Where is the text?

PDB 12/4/1998, Subject: Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks The 9/11 Commission Report | 7/22/04 | CIA

The following is the text of an item from the Presidential Daily Brief received by President William J. Clinton on December 4, 1998. Redacted material is indicated in brackets. Do your own research and read the entire PDB

SUBJECT: Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks

1. Reporting suggests Bin Ladin and his allies are preparing for attacks in the US, including an aircraft hijacking to obtain the release of Shaykh ‘Umar ‘Abd al-Rahman, Ramzi Yousef, and Muhammad Sadiq ‘Awda. One source quoted a senior member of the Gama’at al-Islamiyya (IG) saying that, as of late October, the IG had completed planning for an operation in the US on behalf of Bin Ladin, but that the operation was on hold. A senior Bin Ladin operative from Saudi Arabia was to visit IG counterparts in the US soon thereafter to discuss options—perhaps including an aircraft hijacking. • IG leader Islambuli in late September was planning to hijack a US airliner during the “next couple of weeks” to free ‘Abd al- Rahman and the other prisoners, according to what may be a different source.

• The same source late last month said that Bin Ladin might implement plans to hijack US aircraft before the beginning of Ramadan on 20 December and that two members of the operational team had evaded security checks during a recent trial run at an unidentified New York airport.

2. Some members of the Bin Ladin network have received hijack training, according to various sources,but no group directly tied to Bin Ladin’s al-Qa’ida organization has ever carried out an aircraft hijacking.Bin Ladin could be weighing other types of operations against US aircraft.According to [—] the IG in October obtained SA-7 missiles and intended to move them from Yemen into Saudi Arabia to shoot down an Egyptian plane or, if unsuccessful, a US military or civilian aircraft.

• A [—] in October told us that unspecified “extremist elements” in Yemen had acquired SA-7s. [—] >3. [—] indicate the Bin Ladin organization or its allies are moving closer to implementing anti-US attacks at unspecified locations, but we do not know whether they are related to attacks on aircraft. A Bin Ladin associate in Sudan late last month told a colleague in Kandahar that he had shipped a group of containers to Afghanistan. Bin Ladin associates also talked about the movement of containers to Afghanistan before the East Africa bombings. • In other [—] Bin Ladin associates last month discussed picking up a package in Malaysia. One told his colleague in Malaysia that “they”were in the “ninth month [of pregnancy].” • An alleged Bin Ladin supporter in Yemen late last month remarked to his mother that he planned to work in “commerce” from abroad and said his impending “marriage,” which would take place soon,would be a “surprise.”“Commerce” and “marriage” often are codewords for terrorist attacks. [—]

Do liberals ever admit when proven wrong?
 
No one has ever successfully stated what exactly Bush could have done on the basis of the 8/6/01 report which 1) would have stopped 9/11, and 2) wouldn't have had the usual camps purple-faced and screaming about "civil liberties." They scream enough about now that we know the threat is very very real -- imagine what it would have been had everything been based on a vague report.
 
PDB 12/4/1998, Subject: Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks The 9/11 Commission Report | 7/22/04 | CIA

The following is the text of an item from the Presidential Daily Brief received by President William J. Clinton on December 4, 1998. Redacted material is indicated in brackets. Do your own research and read the entire PDB

SUBJECT: Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks

1. Reporting suggests Bin Ladin and his allies are preparing for attacks in the US, including an aircraft hijacking to obtain the release of Shaykh ‘Umar ‘Abd al-Rahman, Ramzi Yousef, and Muhammad Sadiq ‘Awda. One source quoted a senior member of the Gama’at al-Islamiyya (IG) saying that, as of late October, the IG had completed planning for an operation in the US on behalf of Bin Ladin, but that the operation was on hold. A senior Bin Ladin operative from Saudi Arabia was to visit IG counterparts in the US soon thereafter to discuss options—perhaps including an aircraft hijacking. • IG leader Islambuli in late September was planning to hijack a US airliner during the “next couple of weeks” to free ‘Abd al- Rahman and the other prisoners, according to what may be a different source.

• The same source late last month said that Bin Ladin might implement plans to hijack US aircraft before the beginning of Ramadan on 20 December and that two members of the operational team had evaded security checks during a recent trial run at an unidentified New York airport.

2. Some members of the Bin Ladin network have received hijack training, according to various sources,but no group directly tied to Bin Ladin’s al-Qa’ida organization has ever carried out an aircraft hijacking.Bin Ladin could be weighing other types of operations against US aircraft.According to [—] the IG in October obtained SA-7 missiles and intended to move them from Yemen into Saudi Arabia to shoot down an Egyptian plane or, if unsuccessful, a US military or civilian aircraft.

• A [—] in October told us that unspecified “extremist elements” in Yemen had acquired SA-7s. [—] >3. [—] indicate the Bin Ladin organization or its allies are moving closer to implementing anti-US attacks at unspecified locations, but we do not know whether they are related to attacks on aircraft. A Bin Ladin associate in Sudan late last month told a colleague in Kandahar that he had shipped a group of containers to Afghanistan. Bin Ladin associates also talked about the movement of containers to Afghanistan before the East Africa bombings. • In other [—] Bin Ladin associates last month discussed picking up a package in Malaysia. One told his colleague in Malaysia that “they”were in the “ninth month [of pregnancy].” • An alleged Bin Ladin supporter in Yemen late last month remarked to his mother that he planned to work in “commerce” from abroad and said his impending “marriage,” which would take place soon,would be a “surprise.”“Commerce” and “marriage” often are codewords for terrorist attacks. [—]

Do liberals ever admit when proven wrong?


If this copyrighted material you really do need to link it as per the forum rules.
 
Bush ignored the Aug 6, 2001 PDB "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" and Bust did exactly what bin Laden wanted which was to declare war against Islam.

Which specific warning was that and whenever did George Bush declare war on Islam????

You're a liberal, all right!
 
PDB 12/4/1998, Subject: Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks The 9/11 Commission Report | 7/22/04 | CIA

The following is the text of an item from the Presidential Daily Brief received by President William J. Clinton on December 4, 1998. Redacted material is indicated in brackets. Do your own research and read the entire PDB

SUBJECT: Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks

1. Reporting suggests Bin Ladin and his allies are preparing for attacks in the US, including an aircraft hijacking to obtain the release of Shaykh ‘Umar ‘Abd al-Rahman, Ramzi Yousef, and Muhammad Sadiq ‘Awda. One source quoted a senior member of the Gama’at al-Islamiyya (IG) saying that, as of late October, the IG had completed planning for an operation in the US on behalf of Bin Ladin, but that the operation was on hold. A senior Bin Ladin operative from Saudi Arabia was to visit IG counterparts in the US soon thereafter to discuss options—perhaps including an aircraft hijacking. • IG leader Islambuli in late September was planning to hijack a US airliner during the “next couple of weeks” to free ‘Abd al- Rahman and the other prisoners, according to what may be a different source.

• The same source late last month said that Bin Ladin might implement plans to hijack US aircraft before the beginning of Ramadan on 20 December and that two members of the operational team had evaded security checks during a recent trial run at an unidentified New York airport.

2. Some members of the Bin Ladin network have received hijack training, according to various sources,but no group directly tied to Bin Ladin’s al-Qa’ida organization has ever carried out an aircraft hijacking.Bin Ladin could be weighing other types of operations against US aircraft.According to [—] the IG in October obtained SA-7 missiles and intended to move them from Yemen into Saudi Arabia to shoot down an Egyptian plane or, if unsuccessful, a US military or civilian aircraft.

• A [—] in October told us that unspecified “extremist elements” in Yemen had acquired SA-7s. [—] >3. [—] indicate the Bin Ladin organization or its allies are moving closer to implementing anti-US attacks at unspecified locations, but we do not know whether they are related to attacks on aircraft. A Bin Ladin associate in Sudan late last month told a colleague in Kandahar that he had shipped a group of containers to Afghanistan. Bin Ladin associates also talked about the movement of containers to Afghanistan before the East Africa bombings. • In other [—] Bin Ladin associates last month discussed picking up a package in Malaysia. One told his colleague in Malaysia that “they”were in the “ninth month [of pregnancy].” • An alleged Bin Ladin supporter in Yemen late last month remarked to his mother that he planned to work in “commerce” from abroad and said his impending “marriage,” which would take place soon,would be a “surprise.”“Commerce” and “marriage” often are codewords for terrorist attacks. [—]

Do liberals ever admit when proven wrong?
So please tell why after the outgoing Clinton adminstration warn Bush about terrorism, he ignored the the problem? On 911 Bush was worried more about missle defense than he was of terrorism. In fact Condi Rice was due to make a major speech on Sept 11, 2001.
 
So please tell why after the outgoing Clinton adminstration warn Bush about terrorism, he ignored the the problem? On 911 Bush was worried more about missle defense than he was of terrorism. In fact Condi Rice was due to make a major speech on Sept 11, 2001.

So tell me exactly what Bush should have done to prevent 9/11 which happened 8 months after he took office? Bush didn't ignore the problem thus the commission he established to study the issue. Clinton PDB of 12/04/1998 actually came to fruition a little less than 3 years later so tell me what Clinton did to bolster airline security? Easy to blame Bush but hard for you to recognize that Clinton could have prevented it. That is typical partisan bs.
 
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