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Results of Obama's India Trip

FederalRepublic said:
I don't suppose you'd be offended if I pointed out that all the reviewers from the article you posted picked the Jap crap over the fat boy?
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In certain things but the Harley had good clearance. Also the access to accessaries was listed.

It depends if you want speed or comfort. I will take the comfort and good sounding pipes over speed.
 
ptif219 said:
In certain things but the Harley had good clearance. Also the access to accessaries was listed.

It depends if you want speed or comfort. I will take the comfort and good sounding pipes over speed.
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Since the Suzuki was the most comfortable in that comparo, you'll take good sounding pipes over comfort and speed. I can respect that. I bought a v-twin sportbike because I liked the sound of it even though it wasn't even close to the fastest bike around. VTX's sound horrible with pipes and I'm not big on the sound of the mean streak/marauder either, but I love the sound my Yamaha makes.
 
FederalRepublic said:
Since the Suzuki was the most comfortable in that comparo, you'll take good sounding pipes over comfort and speed. I can respect that. I bought a v-twin sportbike because I liked the sound of it even though it wasn't even close to the fastest bike around. VTX's sound horrible with pipes and I'm not big on the sound of the mean streak/marauder either, but I love the sound my Yamaha makes.
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I understand. I try to buy America made when possible. I do not want to support the economy of Japan or China
 
ptif219 said:
I understand. I try to buy America made when possible. I do not want to support the economy of Japan or China
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... And you said your pipes were aftermarket if I remember correctly. That means the one thing your bike does better is something that you modified yourself. :2razz:

I support the manufacturer that makes the best product for my needs, regardless of where they're from. The beauty of American capitalism is that we have so many options to choose from and are not pigeon-holed into buying a single specific product to prove our national allegiance.

Btw, there are countries besides America and Japan/China that make motorcycles. You know this, right? ;) However, I would bet you still "support" those evil Asian economies anyway with plenty of your other household purchases. Just sayin...
 
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theangryamerican said:
I support the manufacturer that makes the best product for my needs, regardless of where they're from. The beauty of American capitalism is that we have so many options to choose from and are not pigeon-holed into buying a single specific product to prove our national allegiance.

Btw, there are countries besides America and Japan/China that make motorcycles. You know this, right? ;)
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Yes but they are much less bought. Remember Japanese bikes forced most English bikes out of business years ago.

Buy what you want but I will support this country by buying American made to help our economy and help people here to keep working.

Buying my new Harley may have saved somebody from getting laid off in this country.
 
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ptif219 said:
Yes but they are much less bought. Remember Japanese bikes forced most English bikes out of business years ago.

Buy what you want but I will support this country by buying American made to help our economy and help people here to keep working.

Buying my new Harley may have saved somebody from getting laid off in this country.
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Sure, it might have, but it also may have caused the American Honda mechanic down the street to get laid off instead. You have the right to spend your money as you choose, but let's not pretend that your dollars are better for America than mine. Things are not nearly as cut and dried as you make them out to be, but hey, however you'd like to justify your purchase that's you prerogative.
 
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theangryamerican said:
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Sure, it might have, but it also may have caused the American Honda mechanic down the street to get laid off instead. You have the right to spend your money as you choose, but let's not pretend that your dollars are better for America than mine. Things are not nearly as cut and dried as you make them out to be, but hey, however you'd like to justify your purchase that's you prerogative.
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When you go to school to be a motorcycle mechanic you learn how to work on all bikes. He can now go work on Harley's.
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ptif219 said:
When you go to school to be a motorcycle mechanic you learn how to work on all bikes. He can now go work on Harley's.
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Not entirely true. Many dealerships train their own specialized mechanics. Just because I can tear down a Yamaha dirt bike doesn't mean that Aprilia will hire me to work in one of their dealerships, servicing customer's rides.

...and good luck getting a job at Harley, you heard they're laying off, not hiring, right? Maybe if they were more competitive in the whole motorcycle market, instead of filling only one niche customer base, they might be able to take on more workers. You might want to save your ill-timed laughter until you have a better grasp of the situation. :prof
 
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theangryamerican said:
Not entirely true. Many dealerships train their own specialized mechanics. Just because I can tear down a Yamaha dirt bike doesn't mean that Aprilia will hire me to work in one of their dealerships, servicing customer's rides.

...and good luck getting a job at Harley, you heard they're laying off, not hiring, right? Maybe if they were more competitive in the whole motorcycle market, instead of filling only one niche customer base, they might be able to take on more workers. You might want to save your ill-timed laughter until you have a better grasp of the situation. :prof
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Because Harley lays off does not mean the dealers do not need mechanics. My dealership shop stays busy.

If you go to a tech school you learn to work on all bikes. This means you may have to pass some certifications for some jobs but you will still be qualified for a job.
 
ptif219 said:
Because Harley lays off does not mean the dealers do not need mechanics. My dealership shop stays busy.

If you go to a tech school you learn to work on all bikes. This means you may have to pass some certifications for some jobs but you will still be qualified for a job.
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I think I'd rather have a bike that spends less time in the shop.
 
ptif219 said:
Because Harley lays off does not mean the dealers do not need mechanics. My dealership shop stays busy.

If you go to a tech school you learn to work on all bikes. This means you may have to pass some certifications for some jobs but you will still be qualified for a job.
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Your shop may not be indicitive of every other shop across the country. :shrug:

You are correct, additional certifications are often required. Anyone without them is clearly not yet job certified, meaning they will lose the position to someone who is. It's just the nature of the job market.

Anyway, I'm not here to play the anecdotal what-if game and I believe I've made my case fairly clearly. Again, I understand that you love your Harley, and I'm not trying to convince you to buy a different bike. I'm just simply pointing out that someone who chooses to buy from a another manufacturer is not buying a worse product or demonstrating that they hate America, they simply have different criteria for what they want in a motorcycle. They are not more right than you and you are not more right than them. Simple.
 
theangryamerican said:
Your shop may not be indicitive of every other shop across the country. :shrug:

You are correct, additional certifications are often required. Anyone without them is clearly not yet job certified, meaning they will lose the position to someone who is. It's just the nature of the job market.

Anyway, I'm not here to play the anecdotal what-if game and I believe I've made my case fairly clearly. Again, I understand that you love your Harley, and I'm not trying to convince you to buy a different bike. I'm just simply pointing out that someone who chooses to buy from a another manufacturer is not buying a worse product or demonstrating that they hate America, they simply have different criteria for what they want in a motorcycle. They are not more right than you and you are not more right than them. Simple.
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You have your views. I try not to shop at Walmart because I do not want to support China. If Sam were alive today he would kick his family's ass. If you live here you should support our workers.

By the way I grew up about 60 miles from the Harley factory and offices in Wisconsin.
 
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ptif219 said:
You have your views. I try not to shop at Walmart because I do not want to support China. If Sam were alive today he would kick his family's ass. If you live here you should support our workers.
By the way I grew up about 60 miles from the Harley factory and offices in Wisconsin.
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Don't apply your morals to me. Like I said before,
theangryamerican said:
I believe in buying American to an extent, but American companies still have to make a competitive enough product to justify my cash on the barrel. Only an uninformed consumer buys a product based solely on its country of origin, without researching the rest of the facts.
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Btw... I refute your anecdotal evidence with a story of my own. In the 8 years that I owned my Yamaha, bought used, it was in the shop not a single time, despite the multitude of abuses I subjected it to. :shrug:
 
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theangryamerican said:
Don't apply your morals to me. Like I said before,


Btw... I refute your anecdotal evidence with a story of my own. In the 8 years that I owned my Yamaha, bought used, it was in the shop not a single time, despite the multitude of abuses I subjected it to. :shrug:
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I have a maintenance program so I don't even change the oil. I just got my new bike out of the shop they put on true dual Vance and Hines pipes it gave me 18 more horse power.

My Bikes have not been in the shop for breaking down only for sceduled maintenance and things I had put on to make the bike the way I want it.
 
ptif219 said:
I have a maintenance program so I don't even change the oil. I just got my new bike out of the shop they put on true dual Vance and Hines pipes it gave me 18 more horse power.

My Bikes have not been in the shop for breaking down only for sceduled maintenance and things I had put on to make the bike the way I want it.
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That's great, scheduled maintenance is a beautiful thing. I like getting my hands dirty though and feel that makes me much more familiar with the workings of my machine.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whatever salesperson told you you were making 18 more horsepower was likely pulling your leg. Typically, a full exhaust system is only 5-10% power gain, max. 25+% is unheard of. It just doesn't work that way. You're not generating more engine power, just freeing up air flow and no stock exhaust is that restrictive. Until there's a dyno sheet to back it up, cited hp gains are largely useless, but hey, you didn't buy your bike to go fast, right? ;)
 
theangryamerican said:
That's great, scheduled maintenance is a beautiful thing. I like getting my hands dirty though and feel that makes me much more familiar with the workings of my machine.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whatever salesperson told you you were making 18 more horsepower was likely pulling your leg. Typically, a full exhaust system is only 5-10% power gain, max. 25+% is unheard of. It just doesn't work that way. You're not generating more engine power, just freeing up air flow and no stock exhaust is that restrictive. Until there's a dyno sheet to back it up, cited hp gains are largely useless, but hey, you didn't buy your bike to go fast, right? ;)
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Wrong the dyno proved it. I do maintenance until I am sure my back can handle bending over. I had major back surgery in 2009
 
ptif219 said:
Wrong the dyno proved it. I do maintenance until I am sure my back can handle bending over. I had major back surgery in 2009
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Easy, friend. I'm not saying you're any less of a bike owner for letting a shop do maintenance on your bike. I was just stating my personal preference, which is no reflection at all on you. :)

Secondly, wow, if a dyno run showed a 25% gain over stock, I had no idea a stock Harley was that bad. They must really crank down the airflow on those poor things at the factory. What type of dyno was used for your test? Can you post the before and after sheets here?
 
theangryamerican said:
Easy, friend. I'm not saying you're any less of a bike owner for letting a shop do maintenance on your bike. I was just stating my personal preference, which is no reflection at all on you. :)

Secondly, wow, if a dyno run showed a 25% gain over stock, I had no idea a stock Harley was that bad. They must really crank down the airflow on those poor things at the factory. What type of dyno was used for your test? Can you post the before and after sheets here?
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When you add pipes you also change the box on the air cleaner. Then a dyno is done to adjust fuel and air flow for peak performance. It is called a racing tune.

I went from just over 52 horse power to almost 70 horse power
 
ptif219 said:
When you add pipes you also change the box on the air cleaner. Then a dyno is done to adjust fuel and air flow for peak performance. It is called a racing tune.
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I'm well aware of what putting an exhaust on a bike entails. That's not a racing tune, that's a basic exhaust kit. (Btw, "racing tune" on a cruiser?! :lol: ) If you don't change the air filter and jet/chip the bike properly, you're more likely to lose power than to actually gain anything. It's not a "special" process, no matter what your mechanic told you.

Honestly, I'm surprised if those up gains are true, and I'd still love to see the dyno sheets, just to satisfy my personal curiosity. If that's a real gain, that speaks volumes about the terrible efficiency of the stock exhaust and is really not a great endorsement of factory Harley performance.
 
today he's in seoul

President Barack Obama failed to reach agreement on two international deals to help spur the U.S. economy, unexpected setbacks on an Asia trip that was supposed to emphasize his stature abroad and change the subject from last week’s electoral drubbing.

Obama was unable to achieve a free trade agreement with South Korea, vowing to keep talking to get a better deal for U.S. auto makers. And after meeting with the leaders of Germany and China, he continued to meet resistance from the two countries about reducing their trade surpluses with the U.S. to give a boost to American manufacturing, putting the best face on a compromise that only calls for the goal of lowering them.
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President Obama can't close deals at G-20 summit - Carol E. Lee and John Maggs - POLITICO.com

it's all about qe

in addition to american women, catholics, youths, hi earners and low earners and urbans and rurals and burb'ers and independents, obnoxious obama is as well DISSED by the international economic community

when has america seen a national figure fall so far so fast?

all but the fringe recognize utter incompetence when it's persistently put on so hi profile display

party on, paltry remnant
 
China's Hu Rebuffs Weakened Obama at Summit - WSJ.com

he couldn't see this coming?

YOU couldn't see this coming?

hu bitchslaps obama every two or three months

he's slamdunked the dummy a half dozen times already on currency

HU KILLED COPENHAGEN---climate accords

Low targets, goals dropped: Copenhagen ends in failure | Environment | guardian.co.uk

(you really need to know these things)

a few months earlier, over scones in singapore, the chairmen chewed up the chump like always

Amateur Hour at the White House - Council on Foreign Relations

this isn't spin, this isn't debate

it's LESLIE GELB, council on foreign relations, it's comprehensive failure

it's time magazine, the times' sunday mag, 60 minutes, the guardian, der spiegel...

the lustre is OFF

he's that bad

hu's humiliated who's-it a hundred times, from currency to climate to korea to tibet to human rights

how could obama set himself up for this?

how could he possibly convince himself that the champion choreographer would cooperate?

it's astonishing, really

oh well

at least pelosi's gonna keep HER job

LOL!

but what's it gonna take for YOU?

where do you go to get back your self respect?
 
theangryamerican said:
I'm well aware of what putting an exhaust on a bike entails. That's not a racing tune, that's a basic exhaust kit. (Btw, "racing tune" on a cruiser?! :lol: ) If you don't change the air filter and jet/chip the bike properly, you're more likely to lose power than to actually gain anything. It's not a "special" process, no matter what your mechanic told you.

Honestly, I'm surprised if those up gains are true, and I'd still love to see the dyno sheets, just to satisfy my personal curiosity. If that's a real gain, that speaks volumes about the terrible efficiency of the stock exhaust and is really not a great endorsement of factory Harley performance.
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The stock exhaust has a crossover hooking them together. These are Vance and Hines true duals
 
Wiseone said:
Thats still an assumption based only on speculation.
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ptif219 said:
Because Obama will not tell the truth
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Simply because the administration won't reveal the total cost does not mean its anywhere close, or for that matter how far away it is, to a number already shown to have no basis.

In other words suppose that number, which again was shown to have come from no facts, said the trip cost 200 BILLION a day instead of million. And after several high profile people decided to ask the President how much the trip did in fact cost, the President did not produce those numbers.

Would you think that 200 billion would have been close to the real cost? Probably not because that number is truely rediculous, but it shows how abritary you are judge this situation. You are only looking at and considering what you suppose is an amount you could see a President, who you also dislike so there's bias, spending per day on an International trip. Because in both hypotheticals the amount of actual proven information you have is still none, yet you're opinion and conculsion would change.

Its not the facts which changed, because there were none to begin with, what changes is how you percieve the falsehoods. But regardless there's just as many facts to suggest it was 200 million a day as there is to suggest it was 200 billion a day.
 
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