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Megachurch Pastor Comes Out Of Closet

This is not necesssarily all that noble.

You don't think it takes balls of steel for the pastor of a fundy church to come out as gay? The nobility has to do with the fact that he could have easily continued living a double life, but he chose not to. I think 21 years of being a traitor to yourself is hell enough.
 
You don't think it takes balls of steel for the pastor of a fundy church to come out as gay? The nobility has to do with the fact that he could have easily continued living a double life, but he chose not to. I think 21 years of being a traitor to yourself is hell enough.

I guess we could consider it balsy which is not the same as noble. Especially if he indeed actually lived a double life I think it is important to separate actions from feelings and desires. I don't consider him to be a traitor to himself if he was living with his choices despite the fact that his choices were influenced by societal attitudes. By all accounts his wife and children love him and he became a leader and probably helped a lot of people. Sounds like a very fulfilling life that we don't have to measure by what he missed not living gay. We don't completely know his motives but maybe there are a couple of lessons to learn. Maybe one of them is that gay people are now the ones putting way too much importance on sexual orientation. It's the new intolerance.
 
I guess we could consider it balsy which is not the same as noble. Especially if he indeed actually lived a double life I think it is important to separate actions from feelings and desires. I don't consider him to be a traitor to himself if he was living with his choices despite the fact that his choices were influenced by societal attitudes. By all accounts his wife and children love him and he became a leader and probably helped a lot of people. Sounds like a very fulfilling life that we don't have to measure by what he missed not living gay. We don't completely know his motives but maybe there are a couple of lessons to learn. Maybe one of them is that gay people are now the ones putting way too much importance on sexual orientation. It's the new intolerance.

There's no such thing as "too much importance". People want to make it less than, they are then forced to make it more than. It's not a choice. He is who he is, and he denied who he was for literally decades. Nobody should have to live a lie. Not even for the people they love.

P.S.: Funny I just posted this, then read an article regarding Ricky Martin coming out:

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b208946_ricky_martin_opens_up_about_family_life.html

"Before I decided to become a father, I already accepted who I was. I was happy with who I was. When I held my children, I said, OK, it was time to tell the world."

But he wasn't prepared for the emotions that came with clicking "send" on the blog post heard round the world.

"I felt relieved," he said, adding that he could not stop the floods of tears that came after he revealed he was gay. "I felt free, I felt liberated, I could finally say I loved myself completely.



Read more: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b208946_ricky_martin_opens_up_about_family_life.html#ixzz149BkLGzE
 
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Good for Ricky Martin. Let's treat everyone as individuals and not people who have to follow a certain script.
 
Good for Ricky Martin. Let's treat everyone as individuals and not people who have to follow a certain script.

Yup, that's my point. You think the pastor's script is to stay closeted and keep his mouth shut.
 
Good for Ricky Martin. Let's treat everyone as individuals and not people who have to follow a certain script.

Except for Eddie Long. I'm kind of hoping that whole scandal doesn't turn out in his favor.
 
Yup, that's my point. You think the pastor's script is to stay closeted and keep his mouth shut.

Not at all. I am offering another script but not one that he must follow.
 
What you write above seems more you reading your view into those words. Those words are not as clear as you think. He speaks to a majority, but does nto go as far as you do in your assumption. You may be right, but you may also be wrong. After all, if as many believe homosexuals are born with that predisposition, then they too were created by God. As God also states in Gen. 2:18 that it is not good for man to be alone, we should not expect the homosexual to suffer needlessly.

I don't mind a little diversion now and again, so thanks for the effort. But we do disagree. ;)

This is exactly what I mean. Instead of addressing my points, you address one line and just leave the rest lay even though it is correct and shows evidence where you have shown nothing.

Oh well.
 
This is exactly what I mean. Instead of addressing my points, you address one line and just leave the rest lay even though it is correct and shows evidence where you have shown nothing.

Oh well.

I actually thought I did address your post. Your quote did not say what you said it said. And I went back and looked at the original quote, and added it to my response. I've enjoyed our conversation, so I am confused by this response.
 
I actually thought I did address your post. Your quote did not say what you said it said. And I went back and looked at the original quote, and added it to my response. I've enjoyed our conversation, so I am confused by this response.

Don't worry about it. We will have another chance some other time.

Maybe you will post evidence that does not involve me having to go to the library, lol. ;-p
 
Don't worry about it. We will have another chance some other time.

Maybe you will post evidence that does not involve me having to go to the library, lol. ;-p

Well, I did give an overview link. I just know the books are the subject are much more in detail. Not sure how to convey that here. ;)
 
Romans 1:18 24-2624Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul was a great teacher, I'm sure, but he's no Jesus.

Matthew 19: 3-6 3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?"
4 And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,
5 "and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?
6 "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

This doesn't address homosexuality, at all.

Don't think it could be any clearer than that.

You apparently see what you want to see to justify your own paradigms.
 
On sexual immorality:
1 Corinthians 7:2
"But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband"

Paul.

Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Was this verse about sexual immorality, or about the overall sinfulness of mankind?

Mark 7:20-23
And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Is homosexuality specifically mentioned here? Of course not.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Not the words of Christ. Nice try, though.


Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Again...not Christ.


John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

Which commandments were given by Christ, specifically? He wasn't referring to the old testament.

Again. You all have stated that being anti-gay is necessary in order to be CHRISTIAN. I'm just wondering where JESUS CHRIST, the founder of your religion, said this.

Nice tries, but the fact remains: He didn't.
 
Paul was a great teacher, I'm sure, but he's no Jesus.

He was more than that. He was considered a true profit of God. So his law was also the law. He was very clear about this.

This doesn't address homosexuality, at all.

Only to those who would deny the laws of Christ, period.

It not only mentions what marriage is under God, but why he created man and woman and not same sex partners.

You apparently see what you want to see to justify your own paradigms.

I am a true follower and see the truth of Gods law. You are an unbeliever who does not care and want only to corrupt that which is pure.
 
He was more than that. He was considered a true profit of God. So his law was also the law. He was very clear about this.

He considered himself a true Prophet, I think you mean? Yeah. Where does Paul say that he's a "profit"? He calls himself a teacher, preacher, and pastor. That's different. The books that you are thinking of in the New Testament are letters that were written by Paul to early churches. They aren't on par with the gospels. And, they weren't canonized until MANY, MANY years after Paul's death. I mean like...300 years. That's a long time.

Beyond that, Paul never even met Jesus Christ in the flesh, and wasn't one of his disciples. Paul's letters reflect Paul's beliefs.

Only to those who would deny the laws of Christ, period.

Where did Christ mention that being anti-gay is a law of his?

It not only mentions what marriage is under God, but why he created man and woman and not same sex partners.

Actually, that passage deals with divorce and the hypocrisy of the Jews in that era, treating their wives shamefully, giving them letters of divorcement that dishonored them (and left them in poverty, at the mercy of their male relatives), and pretending to still be righteous before God after mistreating their own wives.

I'm sensing some similarities here with the modern pharisees, to be blunt.

:prof It's hard to call yourself a lover of God if you can't manage to love other humans.

I am a true follower and see the truth of Gods law. You are an unbeliever who does not care and want only to corrupt that which is pure.

I'm a former Sunday School teacher who was taught to "rightly divide the word of truth." I don't know whose law you want to follow, but it isn't Christ's law.

The longer I live, the more I see truth in this thought: The God you choose to worship says more about you than it does about God. If you hate gays, you're likely to latch onto a version of God that hates gays.

I don't think that's reflective of the teachings of Christ, though.
 
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I am a true follower and see the truth of Gods law. You are an unbeliever who does not care and want only to corrupt that which is pure.

This is why I have a hard time discussing religion with some people. Some people just can't help but take a holier than thou approach when they have a disagreement with someone, and it's impossible to have a rational discussion.
 
This is why I have a hard time discussing religion with some people. Some people just can't help but take a holier than thou approach when they have a disagreement with someone, and it's impossible to have a rational discussion.

Clearly, you're an evil heathen who wants nothing more than to use holy scripture as your toilet paper. You aren't nearly as righteous as me.

/pharisee mode
 
Here's something to keep in mind when you're tempted to get it all twisted and complicated:

Micah 6:8, “…And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”
It really is that simple.
 
The longer I live, the more I see truth in this thought: The God you choose to worship says more about you than it does about God. If you hate gays, you're likely to latch onto a version of God that hates gays.

I don't think that's reflective of the teachings of Christ, though.

I do think that is true of far too many. I prefer the thought that truth isn't something we know, but something we seek. Just allowing for our lack of certainty would help us much in this world.

Just my thinking out loud, but I have enjoyed a lot of what you're present here. Thanks.
 
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