Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets at s

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Caine said:

Never heard it.
I have heard cops say someone needs to be in prison (you know, repeat offenders). But never that they were going to put them there.
You are right. Cops don't put people in prison. Police only have the role of investigating an incident to the best of their ability/limits to ensure that the case can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, if there is a case.



And you are free to view it however you like.
However,

Lie = Perjury.
Steal = Larceny.

No case is worth ruining your career and family life over.

Cheat? Im confused by what you mean, if your statement was made with any seriousness beyond, "I hate cops."

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Caine, the supreme court has upheld that a cop can lie to a suspect but it is a crime for the suspect to lie to a cop. Cops are professional liars, mostly trying to get a person to admit to something whether they did it or not.

As police officers are agents of the state, they take private property from people all the tiem. For example, let's take a car. The officer knows that when he has a car towed, the owner will probably not get it back. The towing fee and high storage becomes too much for normal people to be able to pay and they lose the car.

You can say that you didn't do that when you were an officer but it happens all the time.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:

If it is, does the exchange rate between Dollars and Pesos make it easy for the cartels to buy whoever they will buy at a low rate relative to their profits on the sale of contraband? I don't think the exchange rate has anything to do with it. Dollars are brought into Mexico, however at this point they can't be exchanged for pesos anywhere, banks have stopped accepting even small amounts of dollars and the local businesses that did accept dollars, like super markets, will no longer accept them. Not even a casino here will accept dollars. This is all in repsonse to drug money coming in. I know it hurts the cartels as they can't do anything with the money as far as buying anything. No cars, houses or even food.

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That doesn't make any sense. If the cartels are being paid in dollars, they had to have figured out a way to either spend those dollars or turn them into something they can spend.

Mason66 said:

If it does, is it your argument that their bottom line will never be hurt enough to stop them, since we'd be cutting into their profits but not reducing their operating budget? I am going to answer this way. It all depends on the government. It will depend onthe government how fast and from where the stash comes from. If the goverenment puts so many regulation on the growers of pot, like they do with everything else, then most people won't even try to get into it.

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I think the fact that, as a nation, we're able to grow and distribute affordable food and non-patented medicines is proof that we could (in theory) regulate the production and sale of recreational drugs without defeating the purpose of legalization.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:

It is a dirty business and please never think that common sense will prevail, as it is non-existent in Mexico

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This statement intrests me.... I wonder if you would expand on it? Examples of how this is true, not only in regards to this particular problem but to life in Mexico in general, would be of intrest. TIA.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Goshin said:

This statement intrests me.... I wonder if you would expand on it? Examples of how this is true, not only in regards to this particular problem but to life in Mexico in general, would be of intrest. TIA.

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Ok I will give you a few examples off the top of my head.

Kids walking home from school 3 or 4 across in the street. Common sense would tell you they would move when a car comes but they don't.

Parking a car where another car can't get by on the street. They just don't care.

Tey willstop their car with no thought for any other driver, in the middle of the street, on a small street, and then they get upset if you want to get by.

Unfortunately with how things are right now, you can't use your horn or anything because you don't know who they are.

For example, a friend of mine was walking home from the gym. He was walking on the sidewalk and a car came by and almost hit him, all the way on he right. He yelled at the car, of course. The car came back, they guy pulled out his gun and asked him what he said. You never know who you are dealing with so to stay alive, it is wise to go around.

If I thiunk of more I will post them.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

That doesn't make any sense. If the cartels are being paid in dollars, they had to have figured out a way to either spend those dollars or turn them into something they can spend.



I think the fact that, as a nation, we're able to grow and distribute affordable food and non-patented medicines is proof that we could (in theory) regulate the production and sale of recreational drugs without defeating the purpose of legalization.

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That doesn't make any sense. If the cartels are being paid in dollars, they had to have figured out a way to either spend those dollars or turn them into something they can spend. - The rules have just come into existence in the last 2 weeks or so. The crack down was fast and without warning. I am not sure whast they are going to do, but I think the government here thinks like you, to starve them out. If they can't spend the dollars they will stop bringing them in. I am not sure if that will work but it has just started so we have to see if it will have some affect.


I think the fact that, as a nation, we're able to grow and distribute affordable food and non-patented medicines is proof that we could (in theory) regulate the production and sale of recreational drugs without defeating the purpose of legalization. This may be true however it takes many years for the fda to do anything. There are pestacides that are used on pot and I am sure everything will be regulated.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:

Ok I will give you a few examples off the top of my head.

Kids walking home from school 3 or 4 across in the street. Common sense would tell you they would move when a car comes but they don't.

Parking a car where another car can't get by on the street. They just don't care.

Tey willstop their car with no thought for any other driver, in the middle of the street, on a small street, and then they get upset if you want to get by.

Unfortunately with how things are right now, you can't use your horn or anything because you don't know who they are.

For example, a friend of mine was walking home from the gym. He was walking on the sidewalk and a car came by and almost hit him, all the way on he right. He yelled at the car, of course. The car came back, they guy pulled out his gun and asked him what he said. You never know who you are dealing with so to stay alive, it is wise to go around.

If I thiunk of more I will post them.

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I am reminded of the Prisoner's Dilemma and how it relates to societal norms. I have heard it said by others, who have lived in Mexico or South America, that most cultures in those regions have not achieved anything like an optimal solution culturally to that Dilemma.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:

That doesn't make any sense. If the cartels are being paid in dollars, they had to have figured out a way to either spend those dollars or turn them into something they can spend. - The rules have just come into existence in the last 2 weeks or so. The crack down was fast and without warning. I am not sure whast they are going to do, but I think the government here thinks like you, to starve them out. If they can't spend the dollars they will stop bringing them in. I am not sure if that will work but it has just started so we have to see if it will have some affect.

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Okay, now that makes a lot more sense, thank you.

Are there places (specific banks, for example) where someone could bring in a commodity like gold and sell it to the bank for currency? In my area, there are three banks that will buy and sell $50 gold coins (which are, of course, worth a lot more than $50 because of the amount of gold in each coin).

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

Okay, now that makes a lot more sense, thank you.

Are there places (specific banks, for example) where someone could bring in a commodity like gold and sell it to the bank for currency? In my area, there are three banks that will buy and sell $50 gold coins (which are, of course, worth a lot more than $50 because of the amount of gold in each coin).

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I am not sure about the gold coins. there are pawn shops everywhere that will buy gold. I don't see the cartels dealing with gold. it is too heavy and hard to deal with.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Well, they're going to find some way of bringing their profits home. Gold was just my first idea.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:

Caine, the supreme court has upheld that a cop can lie to a suspect but it is a crime for the suspect to lie to a cop. Cops are professional liars, mostly trying to get a person to admit to something whether they did it or not.

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Its a crime for a suspect to lie to a cop? Wow. I never heard that one before.
Lie about your name? Yes it is a crime. Lie about what you did? No, thats not a crime.
Cops are not professional liars. You are a professional cop hater.

As police officers are agents of the state, they take private property from people all the tiem. For example, let's take a car. The officer knows that when he has a car towed, the owner will probably not get it back. The towing fee and high storage becomes too much for normal people to be able to pay and they lose the car.

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What you talk of is called clearing the highway. Can't leave a vehicle parked all caddy wompus in the lane of travel. The officer does not "know" that someone is too poor to afford 100 bucks to go get their vehicle out of the towing yard. Where do you come off thinking you KNOW what an officer is thinking and its always evil and deceitful. Do you realize how pathetic this sounds?

You can say that you didn't do that when you were an officer but it happens all the time.

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And you can say your not a police hater who doesn't like getting caught breaking the law, but you sound just like one.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Caine said:

Its a crime for a suspect to lie to a cop? Wow. I never heard that one before.
Lie about your name? Yes it is a crime. Lie about what you did? No, thats not a crime.
Cops are not professional liars. You are a professional cop hater.

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Why is it acceptable to you that it is illegal for a private citizen to lie to a police officer (for example about their identity) while it is both legal and accepted practice for a police officer to lie to a suspect?

Caine said:

What you talk of is called clearing the highway. Can't leave a vehicle parked all caddy wompus in the lane of travel.

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How about asset seizure? Nothing like seizing someone's assets to prevent them from mounting a vigorous defense of their freedom and good name, much less their property rights.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

Why is it acceptable to you that it is illegal for a private citizen to lie to a police officer (for example about their identity) while it is both legal and accepted practice for a police officer to lie to a suspect?



How about asset seizure? Nothing like seizing someone's assets to prevent them from mounting a vigorous defense of their freedom and good name, much less their property rights.

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Your questions are better fit for someone who MAKES the law.

I suggest you ask your politicians.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Caine said:

Your questions are better fit for someone who MAKES the law.

I suggest you ask your politicians.

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I asked why is it acceptable to you that it is illegal for a private citizen to lie to a police officer (for example about their identity) while it is both legal and accepted practice for a police officer to lie to a suspect.

Why should I ask someone else about why that is acceptable to you?

As for asset seizure, I'm talking to you, a police officer, about it. You can't blame the people who gave the law enforcement community the tools for how the law enforcement community chooses to use those tools.

Why are you trying to hide behind someone else's skirt?

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

I asked why is it acceptable to you that it is illegal for a private citizen to lie to a police officer (for example about their identity) while it is both legal and accepted practice for a police officer to lie to a suspect.

Why should I ask someone else about why that is acceptable to you?

As for asset seizure, I'm talking to you, a police officer, about it. You can't blame the people who gave the law enforcement community the tools for how the law enforcement community chooses to use those tools.

Why are you trying to hide behind someone else's skirt?

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Bud, the average street cop doesn't make those kinds of decisions.

Detectives actually do most of the lying.

Deciding to charge someone for lying about their identity (and other things... you can be charged for lying to the Feds for instance) are usually a decision made by a prosecutor or solicitor.

Asset Seizure is usually decided on by much higher authorities than the average street cop.

You're attributing to Joe Cop far more discretionary power than he actually has.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

He's a police officer who doesn't seem to have a particular issue with the items I listed above.

I'm trying to figure out why he doesn't have an issue with them.

Ergo, I'm speaking to exactly the right person.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

He's a police officer who doesn't seem to have a particular issue with the items I listed above.

I'm trying to figure out why he doesn't have an issue with them.

Ergo, I'm speaking to exactly the right person.

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Depends on the situation. Do I have a problem with a detective lying to a suspect in a felony case about what type of evidence he has when he doesn't really have it? No.
Do I have a problem with detective lying about the type of leniency one will get for giving a confession when they turn around and don't get said 'deal'? Yes. Thats not his/her place to do so.

It depends on the situation. And these can be applied to street cops as well.
A street cop lies to someone about leniency and then doesn't give said leniency when he gets the answer he is looking for.

Thats just dishonest, and not a practice I participate in.


Now, as far as asset forfeiture. I have no problem with it in DWI cases where folks have lost their privlege to drive because of a DWI and then go out, while revoked, and DWI again. They are informed of this consequence when they receive their first DWI. And, its one of the best ways the state can ensure that we will keep said person off of the road while drunk again without jailing them for a first time DWI offense, which I believe we all agree would be unnecessary.

Of course, that doesn't answer your question because you are upset that your dealer lost his car and house when he got busted for maintaining a dwelling to support drug operations. Too bad. I haven't dealt with that because I purposefully stay away from enforcing drug laws as much as possible.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Caine said:

Of course, that doesn't answer your question because you are upset that your dealer lost his car and house when he got busted for maintaining a dwelling to support drug operations.

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My dealer? Do you mean the guy who owns the smoke shop on the reservation where I buy my cigarettes, or do you mean the guy who sells me my coffee?


At any rate, your slanderous bull**** aside, what bothers me are asset seizures which take place prior to an actual conviction in an actual court of actual law.

In other words, asset seizures which impede a presumed-innocent defendant's ability to actually defend themselves.

How do you feel about those?

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

In other words, asset seizures which impede a presumed-innocent defendant's ability to actually defend themselves.

How do you feel about those?

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You'd have to prove your assertion that it impedes their ability to defend themselves first.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

It denies them the ability to hire the attorney of their choice, or to expend their own resources to hire investigators or experts to testify on their behalf.

I'll ask again: How do you feel about asset seizures which take place prior to an actual conviction in an actual court of actual law.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

It denies them the ability to hire the attorney of their choice, or to expend their own resources to hire investigators or experts to testify on their behalf.

I'll ask again: How do you feel about asset seizures which take place prior to an actual conviction in an actual court of actual law.

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I know it isn't me you're asking, but I'm going to answer anyway: I have a huge, HUGE problem with most forms of pre-conviction asset seizure, and the tribulations some people have had to go through to get their propery back when the charges were droppd or they were aquitted.

I think it is very UnAmerican.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Goshin said:

I know it isn't me you're asking, but I'm going to answer anyway: I have a huge, HUGE problem with most forms of pre-conviction asset seizure, and the tribulations some people have had to go through to get their propery back when the charges were droppd or they were aquitted.

I think it is very UnAmerican.

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Well, for what it's worth, I'm entirely in agreement with you. Except the part where you said "most."


TED,
Curious to know what Caine's position on those kinds of seizures is.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

marduc said:

I never said anything about it NOT growing outside, it grows all over the place, Kentucky, California, Alaska, Maine, Florida, you name it it can grow there, which emphasizes my point stated in the first line of my post you quoted "marijuana is a weed it grows anywhere".

Ideally in a legal environment Marijuana would be grown indoors (greenhouse), for quality (very important in undermining the black market that legal product superior) and safety (to keep kids, and to a lesser extent adults or those who may want to do harm from strolling onto a field and grabbing a bud or threatening the grower). This does not meant that it cannot, is not, or will not be grown outdoors.

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I was just rambling aimlessly on the extra perk of growing inside

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:

It denies them the ability to hire the attorney of their choice, or to expend their own resources to hire investigators or experts to testify on their behalf.

I'll ask again: How do you feel about asset seizures which take place prior to an actual conviction in an actual court of actual law.

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Im not the judge.
Why don't you ask the judge who is required to sign off on said seizure paperwork, and make the determination that there was indeed enough probable cause to believe that the assets seized were aquired for the purpose of, or by the act of, committing said crime, or it somehow otherwise fits whatever legally defined purposes for seizure.

The only seizures I have ever made have been on vehicles by repeat drunken driving offenders..... And guess what.... The law authorizing such seizure states, "The officer SHALL seize..."

SHALL Means We HAVE to do it, not we "may" do it, we SHALL do it..

Capishe?

And, there are hearings on seizures held seperately of the criminal charges where it can be argued in court and said assess can be re-acquired if a problem was made. In the case of a seizure, in some instances, one may not have to be found GUILTY of the crime in order for the seizure to be valid. It depends on the law.

Don't like the law, talk to your politicians....

Because, Police officers.. SHALL do what they are told by the law.

EDIT: Also, Why is a car or a house or a stack of money that was sitting next to several bricks of cocaine required to defend someone when we provide lawyers free of charge to those who don't make any taxable income?

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Caine said:

Im not the judge.

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I've already made it abundantly clear that I understand you and your colleagues are not in any way responsible for the practice. If you somehow missed that, let me be plain -- I understand that you and your colleagues are not in any way responsible for the practice.

I am asking for your opinion on the practice.

Why do you keep dodging the question?

Caine said:

EDIT: Also, Why is a car or a house or a stack of money that was sitting next to several bricks of cocaine required to defend someone when we provide lawyers free of charge to those who don't make any taxable income?

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Simple fact: You are not going to get the same level / quality of service out of a public defender that you're going to get out of a top-dollar, hired gun and a fleet of private investigators and experts.

If you did, there'd be no top-dollar hired gun defense lawyers, because they wouldn't be able to compete with the juggernaut that such a public defender office would be. Instead, such attorneys would be working for the public defender's office.

Please stop obfuscating and answer my question.

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Goshin said:

I am reminded of the Prisoner's Dilemma and how it relates to societal norms. I have heard it said by others, who have lived in Mexico or South America, that most cultures in those regions have not achieved anything like an optimal solution culturally to that Dilemma.

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I thought of a few more examples.

Let's start with the losers and scum that abandon their families to go to the US and that don't realize that after paying money for somebody to cross them, and paying for housing, transportation, food and everything else, they end up with the same amount of money as if they stayed here and was a presence in their childs life. Being here to teach the child to be a good person is worth more than a few extra dollars they can earn in the US.

OK more examples of the lack of common sense.

Treating children as they are property rather than a human being. I mean throwing them in the back of an open pick up truck. I wouldn't even do that with a dog.

Putting a child in the back seat of a car with no seat belt on.

Letting a child sit in the front of a car that has an air bag with no seat belt on. - When the air bag deploys the childs head will be whipped back causing, most of the time, a fatal injury.

Holding a baby in the front seat of a car that has an airbag with no seat belt on for the adult nor the child. When the air bag deploys the baby will be crushed between the adult passenger and the air bag.

And the worst - holding a baby while driving in any car let alone in a car with a drivers side air bag (and worse when it is a stick shift) It is almost impossible to control the car holding a baby on your lap and shift the car, then if the air bag deploys the baby is dead between the steering wheel and the driver.

Would you send your 4 year old daughter to the store alone to buy anything?

We have neighborhood stores, like one of the houses on the block is a store, but I would never send my son or daugter there alone to buy anything.