• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets at s

Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
By the way in case you didn't notice, I don't think I ever said they were. I don't know if they are and I don't care if they are. If drugs become legal in the US, they will be produced domestically, thus depriving the cartels of a significant portion of their income (whether that income is related to production, transportation or sale), thus reducing their ability to wage war on their neighbors.
Click to expand...

I think you are underestimating the cartels, but we will see if the bill even passes on Tuesday.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

I think you've overestimating them. How can they possibly continue to do what they're doing at the level they're doing it if their single biggest customer decides to stop importing altogether?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
I think you've overestimating them. How can they possibly continue to do what they're doing at the level they're doing it if their single biggest customer decides to stop importing altogether?
Click to expand...

I am sure they are not going to give up that much money easily.

The focus of the violence will change to the new growers until they don't want to do it anymore.

For the cartels human life has no value whatsoever.

They kill women and kids on a weekly basis.

We will see what happens on Tuesday.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
If we legalize and regulate recreational drugs at the national level, they will be produced in the United States.
Click to expand...

As one of my drug-dealing clients once told me: There will always be something to sell, and someone to sell to.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:
I am sure they are not going to give up that much money easily.

The focus of the violence will change to the new growers until they don't want to do it anymore.

For the cartels human life has no value whatsoever.

They kill women and kids on a weekly basis.

We will see what happens on Tuesday.
Click to expand...

You're saying they'd rampage around the United States in pursuit of the millions of small businesses that would pop up to fill the demand?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
You're saying they'd rampage around the United States in pursuit of the millions of small businesses that would pop up to fill the demand?
Click to expand...

Who's going to sign on to sell crack cocaine and methamphetamine, do you think, hmmmm? And who would ever be so stupid as to legalize them?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
You're saying they'd rampage around the United States in pursuit of the millions of small businesses that would pop up to fill the demand?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put it past them but I don't think it will be millions of small businesses growing pot.

I am sure it will be more centralized and controled than that.

I hope not but to take that much money away from a cartel like that will have consequences.

Do you have any experience with the cartels inMexico to have come by your opinions of them?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Catz Part Deux said:
Who's going to sign on to sell crack cocaine and methamphetamine, do you think, hmmmm? And who would ever be so stupid as to legalize them?
Click to expand...

We're having one of those "assume a spherical cow of uniform density" arguments. The Federal government will never give up all the power and money it's farmed off the war on drugs.

In my spherical-cow-of-uniform-density world, the government would legalize all drugs, establish purity standards, tax sales, and use education and treatment to fight abuse.

Education seems to work pretty well when it comes to sex, why not responsible drug use?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
We're having one of those "assume a spherical cow of uniform density" arguments. The Federal government will never give up all the power and money it's farmed off the war on drugs.
Click to expand...

Do you think it is possible to use methamphetamine or crack responsibly?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:
I wouldn't put it past them but I don't think it will be millions of small businesses growing pot.

I am sure it will be more centralized and controled than that.

I hope not but to take that much money away from a cartel like that will have consequences.

Do you have any experience with the cartels inMexico to have come by your opinions of them?
Click to expand...

So we leave them in charge and do not starve them out because we fear them? let them move on and fight over the counterfeit prada purse business and run a few numbers rackets until the soldiers all fade and there are a fraction of criminals left fighting over crumbs.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Catz Part Deux said:
Who's going to sign on to sell crack cocaine and methamphetamine, do you think, hmmmm? And who would ever be so stupid as to legalize them?
Click to expand...

those who would be stupid enough to legalize those drugs are the ones who feel that we can curb usage and treat our drug problems better by targeting our resources towards education, controlled distribution, and treatment instead of throwing resources at a manufactured criminal problem

edit because I forgot one crucial thing that expands on the controlled distribution aspect; the all important delaying age of first use that could never happen with a black market distribution
 
Last edited:
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

marduc said:
So we leave them in charge and do not starve them out because we fear them? let them move on and fight over the counterfeit prada purse business and run a few numbers rackets until the soldiers all fade and there are a fraction of criminals left fighting over crumbs.
Click to expand...

How do you fight against people that would go into a childs birthday party and kill 11 people from 11 to 20 years of age?

Do you think they care about the border?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:
I wouldn't put it past them but I don't think it will be millions of small businesses growing pot.
Click to expand...

Given how many jobs are created and fueled by small business activity, I have to disagree with you here.

Mason66 said:
Do you have any experience with the cartels inMexico to have come by your opinions of them?
Click to expand...

No, since I do not live in Mexico nor anywhere near the Mexican border, I have no first-hand experience with the Mexican cartels. My opinion is based on common sense and my understanding of the history of organized crime in the United States. I do not believe that the basic physics of organized crime change when you cross the border, and I will not believe any argument that is based on such an assertion.

If your argument is that there's a different of magnitude, that I'd buy on the basis of economics.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:
How do you fight against people that would go into a childs birthday party and kill 11 people from 11 to 20 years of age?

Do you think they care about the border?
Click to expand...

You starve them, you don't let them continue to kill people at a party unchecked because you fear them
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Catz Part Deux said:
Do you think it is possible to use methamphetamine or crack responsibly?
Click to expand...

Possible? Sure.

Likely? No.

I prefer to give people an appropriate education on the subject and then let them make an informed decision.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
Given how many jobs are created and fueled by small business activity, I have to disagree with you here.



No, since I do not live in Mexico nor anywhere near the Mexican border, I have no first-hand experience with the Mexican cartels. My opinion is based on common sense and my understanding of the history of organized crime in the United States. I do not believe that the basic physics of organized crime change when you cross the border, and I will not believe any argument that is based on such an assertion.

If your argument is that there's a different of magnitude, that I'd buy on the basis of economics.
Click to expand...

I am in Mexico. In Sinaloa. I heard shots about an hour ago but I will have to wait until the morning to see what happened.

The police are scared and do not come out when you call so we are on our own.

I have to be careful where I go, when I go and what car I drive.

I can't go to any gathering of any kind, just in case there is a bad person there.

These people are animals and they think with an animals brain.

There is no code of ethics like the US mob had. I don't think they can be starved out.

They will find their way in to the business, likely by force, as that is the only thing they know.

Think back to the 20s and 30 and to the businesses that didnt want to do business with them. What happened to thoses businesses and owners?

I am sure something like that will happen again.

Like I said it all depends on what happens on Tuesday so we will wait for the vote.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Yeah, I dunno if legalization of pot (and only pot) in California (and only in California) will be a sufficiently large shift in US drug policy to be a suitable experiment for answering that question.

At any rate, while organized crime in the US had (on its face, anyway) a set of rules in the beginning, it mainly doesn't anymore.

The reason that there are certain things organized criminals generally won't do here in this day and age isn't because they aren't animals or they have restraint or anything like that -- I'm not making a judgement of them either way, understand -- it's because the ratio of profit to risk is insufficient.

My belief is that this is why the cartels wouldn't wage war on domestic producers here if drugs were made legal. They'd be bringing down too much heat on themselves for too little gain.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:
I am in Mexico. In Sinaloa.
Click to expand...

You know, since you live there I should be asking you questions rather than arguing with you. Here goes:

My understanding is that a cartel controls a town by bribing whoever it is worthwhile to bribe, hiring whoever it is worthwhile to hire, and scaring everyone else into submission. Is that about right?

If it is, does the exchange rate between Dollars and Pesos make it easy for the cartels to buy whoever they will buy at a low rate relative to their profits on the sale of contraband?

If it does, is it your argument that their bottom line will never be hurt enough to stop them, since we'd be cutting into their profits but not reducing their operating budget?
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:
Deuce, he was asking me about that last comment.

Caine, you can't tel me you have never heard a cop say he was going to put someone in prison.
Click to expand...
Never heard it.
I have heard cops say someone needs to be in prison (you know, repeat offenders). But never that they were going to put them there.
You are right. Cops don't put people in prison. Police only have the role of investigating an incident to the best of their ability/limits to ensure that the case can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, if there is a case.



A cop is a cog in a huge money making machine, they are the front line that gets the wheels moving. A cop is allowed by law to lie cheat and steal to make his case against somebody and you know what they say about ultimate power.
Click to expand...
And you are free to view it however you like.
However,

Lie = Perjury.
Steal = Larceny.

No case is worth ruining your career and family life over.

Cheat? Im confused by what you mean, if your statement was made with any seriousness beyond, "I hate cops."
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Mason66 said:
In my experience if you don't talk to the officer when you are getting a ticket, then plead not guilty, he probably won't remember the ticket when it gets to court. He gives out so many tickets, it is hard to remember them all.

If you make a big fuss, he will take notes and crush you in court, however if you don't make yourself memorable, he will have better things to do.

It has worked for me, I would say, 90% of the time.
Click to expand...

This is true.
Jack asses who are rude and obnoxious ARE memorable.
People who are polite and courteous, at least with me, always get a reduction in what I charge them with vs what they were actually doing.

When referring to speeding in particular. Folks who aren't stubborn jack asses usually get a reduction to 9mph over, even though I won't even bother writing said ticket unless they were actually going 15 over.

Auto Insurance companies typically ignore any speeding violation charge that is less than 10mph over.

The state is already bad enough with jacking up the court costs (NC raised it again in October), the insurance industry doesn't need to get theirs too.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
I would like to introduce you to this fascinating invention that permits finite climate control, encouraging the growth of finicky plants in what would otherwise be hostile conditions.

Hydroponic-Garden-Smart-Pots.jpg


People can be amazingly creative and studious where profit is involved. Observe!

How to Grow Marijuana Indoor and Outdoor
Click to expand...

Heh. Yep.
With the right care and equipment, this stuff can be grown indoors almost anywhere.

We busted up a grow operation in a freaking apartment once. Dude had like 8 pounds growing in an apartments with fans and lights and fertilizers and all.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

marduc said:
marijuana is a weed it grows anywhere, any closet, flower pot, greenhouse, and about 3 months will do.. in fact it is preferable to grow it indoors to avoid pollination and seeds.

You really think we need acreage on the scale of even one county in nebraska to supply it? what about all that acreage we waste on corn and wheat for alcohol -- ohh yeah that is negligible too despite an order of magnitude more demand for that.
Click to expand...

I know someone who use to be a part of scout-unit.
They'd fly around the state and, from the air, investigate fields - locate outdoor marijuana crops - and then call up a unit to come out, claim and destroy them (by cutting and burning).

It's a 24/7/365 job only possible because people plant them *outside*
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Aunt Spiker said:
I know someone who use to be a part of scout-unit.
They'd fly around the state and, from the air, investigate fields - locate outdoor marijuana crops - and then call up a unit to come out, claim and destroy them (by cutting and burning).

It's a 24/7/365 job only possible because people plant them *outside*
Click to expand...

I never said anything about it NOT growing outside, it grows all over the place, Kentucky, California, Alaska, Maine, Florida, you name it it can grow there, which emphasizes my point stated in the first line of my post you quoted "marijuana is a weed it grows anywhere".

Ideally in a legal environment Marijuana would be grown indoors (greenhouse), for quality (very important in undermining the black market that legal product superior) and safety (to keep kids, and to a lesser extent adults or those who may want to do harm from strolling onto a field and grabbing a bud or threatening the grower). This does not meant that it cannot, is not, or will not be grown outdoors.
 
Last edited:
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

Catz Part Deux said:
Who's going to sign on to sell crack cocaine and methamphetamine, do you think, hmmmm? And who would ever be so stupid as to legalize them?
Click to expand...




Catz Part Deux said:
Do you think it is possible to use methamphetamine or crack responsibly?
Click to expand...


You have a point there.


From what I've seen, crack and meth are problem drugs. They are terribly toxic. They make marijuana look like mineral water, in terms of what they do to the heavy user.

Not only that, but the difference in how the users behave when under the influence.

Potheads are rarely any trouble when under the influence, as long as they don't get behind the wheel. They mostly get calm and lethargic, and keep the company that makes Doritos in business. :)

People on crack and meth, stimulants, are more likely to go out and stir around, and cause trouble. They get restless and jumpy. Add impaired judgement on top of that and you've got a recipe for trouble.

If crack and meth were legalized, who'd want to take the liability risks associated with producing and selling it? I don't know that it is possible to make crack and meth that isn't terribly toxic and dangerous, and remember the cigarette class-action lawsuits.

Legalizing the possession, use, production and sales of pot is OK by me. Pot isn't any worse than booze. It would hurt the cartels and gangs, long-term, to some degree.

Crack and meth, no, I don't think so. BUT, crack and meth are normally produced locally in small labs, rather than imported. Meth in particular. I think the cartels would have trouble in that regard, because the meth supply chain would not need them. The cartels might turn to heroin, but I don't know that that is such a big/profitable market as the weed market is.

Hard to say without trying it.
 
Re: Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack Gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets

TacticalEvilDan said:
You know, since you live there I should be asking you questions rather than arguing with you. Here goes:

My understanding is that a cartel controls a town by bribing whoever it is worthwhile to bribe, hiring whoever it is worthwhile to hire, and scaring everyone else into submission. Is that about right?

If it is, does the exchange rate between Dollars and Pesos make it easy for the cartels to buy whoever they will buy at a low rate relative to their profits on the sale of contraband?

If it does, is it your argument that their bottom line will never be hurt enough to stop them, since we'd be cutting into their profits but not reducing their operating budget?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that a cartel controls a town by bribing whoever it is worthwhile to bribe, hiring whoever it is worthwhile to hire, and scaring everyone else into submission. Is that about right? - The cartel bribes everybody. If the official does not accept the money, like the police cheif here in Los Mochis, they kidnapped his son, cut off a few fingers and then the cheif accepted the money, all the money he had been offererd from day 1. They really do not have a choice if they have any kind of family or friends. The did return his son less a few parts.



If it is, does the exchange rate between Dollars and Pesos make it easy for the cartels to buy whoever they will buy at a low rate relative to their profits on the sale of contraband? I don't think the exchange rate has anything to do with it. Dollars are brought into Mexico, however at this point they can't be exchanged for pesos anywhere, banks have stopped accepting even small amounts of dollars and the local businesses that did accept dollars, like super markets, will no longer accept them. Not even a casino here will accept dollars. This is all in repsonse to drug money coming in. I know it hurts the cartels as they can't do anything with the money as far as buying anything. No cars, houses or even food.

If it does, is it your argument that their bottom line will never be hurt enough to stop them, since we'd be cutting into their profits but not reducing their operating budget? I am going to answer this way. It all depends on the government. It will depend onthe government how fast and from where the stash comes from. If the goverenment puts so many regulation on the growers of pot, like they do with everything else, then most people won't even try to get into it. I think there will be a place for the cartel to sell their product, but I am not sure they will be able to do it in a legal way. They do not work well with others. What the cartel does is not driven totally by profit. I understand they were looking for a rat at the kids birthday party yelling RATA the whole time they were killing the kids, but the killing did not help their bottom line. They have also pledged to kill 135 people for the 134 kilos of pot the police seized and burned. They have killed twice now, once in Ciudad Juarez and another time in Tepic. All the people have been from rehab, I am guessing the cartel is upset the people no longer use drugs. The revenge killings do no help their bottom line but they are doing it anyway.

It is a dirty business and please never think that common sense will prevail, as it is non-existent in Mexico
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom