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1 Ohio school, 4 bullied teens dead at own hand

i can tell you first hand there are bullies in private school, so you're wrong. private school is not the answer, expecting students to behave is. public school doesn't FOSTER this type of behavior, parents ALLOW thier children to behave like this.

He is both right and wrong. Yes, there are bullies in private schools but no, it is not as big a problem because it usually gets handled more readily. Teachers aren't as afraid to jump to conclusions or make judgments about bullying. Private schools are smaller so it's harder to hide it. My kid went to private and public schools and was the type of kid that would be picked on. A little nerdy, really ADD, compulsive, etc., He had a bad time of it when he changed to a public school. I had to take him out and put him back in private school for a year. There area always exceptions but there is a different dynamic and atmosphere at private schools.
 
so that makes bullying okay?

No. Suicide often isn't a one-problem issue (that was my point.)

By placing blame *just* on the bullies they are possibly overlooking other causes that might have been present and might have contributed - the bullying is just *one* likely factor.

I'm bothered, though, by future rule-implications.
Yes, bullying is a huge problem and needs to be ended or squelched as much as possible (I was bullied in school for countless years because I was short, skinny and wore glasses - I know how it feels and I know it can haunt you - I'm not just speaking out of my senseless ass). But often when our school system identifies something as a *very bad problem that we must stop immediately* they go overboard - and the next thing we know kindergardeners get suspended for bringing happy meal toys to school because they shoot a projectile and kids are expelled for having a plastic butter knife in their lunchbox.

I sense an extreme-bad-reaction status of 'no tolerance' coming along in reaction to bullying and it'll lead to harmless and loving kids being expelled for just making a funny face at another kid on the playground or calling someone 'stupid' at lunch time.

So - they can't just focus on *the bullies* if they want to end these suicide-situations - because that's only *a part* of the problem. . . and I really hope they don't go extreme in their efforts, either, which will get truly innocent kids punished just for being normal children.

One thing they need to try to figure out is *why* these types of bully behaviors which are negative have more of an impact than the larger variety of more positive things in someone's life.

Mohat had friends - I'm sure a lot of people liked him. How many teens bullied him? Probably far fewer than those who cared for him - but their negativity had more of a lasting and strong effect than anyone's positivity.

Why?

I was bullied, pushed around, set up to take the blame for another student's actions in school - for years - in a variety of different schools. People just didn't like me, I was always a target - but I didn't break down in my teen years like that - my very few friends I had who were positive had more of an impact on me than those who were negative in my life.

Why can some people handle it - and others can't?

Unless they focus on the individual problems student to student - psychologically, etc - they'll never actually figure it out.
 
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No. Suicide often isn't a one-problem issue (that was my point.)

By placing blame *just* on the bullies they are possibly overlooking other causes that might have been present and might have contributed - the bullying is just *one* likely factor.

I'm bothered, though, by future rule-implications.
Yes, bullying is a huge problem and needs to be ended or squelched as much as possible (I was bullied in school for countless years because I was short, skinny and wore glasses - I know how it feels and I know it can haunt you - I'm not just speaking out of my senseless ass). But often when our school system identifies something as a *very bad problem that we must stop immediately* they go overboard - and the next thing we know kindergardeners get suspended for bringing happy meal toys to school because they shoot a projectile and kids are expelled for having a plastic butter knife in their lunchbox.

I sense an extreme-bad-reaction status of 'no tolerance' coming along in reaction to bullying and it'll lead to harmless and loving kids being expelled for just making a funny face at another kid on the playground or calling someone 'stupid' at lunch time.

So - they can't just focus on *the bullies* if they want to end these suicide-situations - because that's only *a part* of the problem. . . and I really hope they don't go extreme in their efforts, either, which will get truly innocent kids punished just for being normal children.

One thing they need to try to figure out is *why* these types of bully behaviors which are negative have more of an impact than the larger variety of more positive things in someone's life.

Mohat had friends - I'm sure a lot of people liked him. How many teens bullied him? Probably far fewer than those who cared for him - but their negativity had more of a lasting and strong effect than anyone's positivity.

Why?

I was bullied, pushed around, set up to take the blame for another student's actions in school - for years - in a variety of different schools. People just didn't like me, I was always a target - but I didn't break down in my teen years like that - my very few friends I had who were positive had more of an impact on me than those who were negative in my life.

Why can some people handle it - and others can't?

Unless they focus on the individual problems student to student - psychologically, etc - they'll never actually figure it out.


Quoted for truth, because I can't thank you twice.
 
Sad to see.

My graduating class had 1,200 people in it. We lost 112 people over the course of 4 years. 23 of them were suicides.
 
Large schools are a problem. The greater the school size and anonymity of students, the more they will have problems with this sort of thing. However, there are large private schools with similar problems.

I don't believe that there is any research that suggests that bullying is a public school only issue, or that the problem is substantially worse in public schools.

I used to represent a large school system that was mostly upper class whites and the most prosperous black community in greater cincinnati. we had lots of problems there and I recall reading a study (albeit one that is now 24 years old) that indicated that the public schools had far more cases. private schools tend to be smaller with smaller student teacher ratios meaning malignant undercurrents tend to be discovered quicker
 
I used to represent a large school system that was mostly upper class whites and the most prosperous black community in greater cincinnati. we had lots of problems there and I recall reading a study (albeit one that is now 24 years old) that indicated that the public schools had far more cases. private schools tend to be smaller with smaller student teacher ratios meaning malignant undercurrents tend to be discovered quicker

I think that there are multiple reasons for that. Parents in private schools are more likely to be heavily involved (many require the parents to contribute service hours). Private schools are smaller. Private schools tend to be more ethnically/religiously/economically homogeneous. Private schools tend to have more students with intact families.

There are probably more reasons but now I'm tired of listing them.

In our community, there are really only 2 private high schools that my kids could attend. One is whackdoo religious and the other is extremely expensive (and has a major drug problem). I'm okay with my kids being in public schools.
 
Sad to see.

My graduating class had 1,200 people in it. We lost 112 people over the course of 4 years. 23 of them were suicides.

brutal-in the 30+ years since I graduated my prep school there has been one suicide that I am aware of. there were none the 6 years I was there

in fact I am only aware of three deaths of students, one was a suicide, one was cancer (a boy a couple years behind me-I was at his funeral) and another guy who was killed when his boat hit a log jam and he broke his neck being thrown from the boat.
 
brutal-in the 30+ years since I graduated my prep school there has been one suicide that I am aware of. there were none the 6 years I was there
Oh, we're counting post graduation years too? This might take a while, real life hit everybody pretty hard.
 
Oh, we're counting post graduation years too? This might take a while, real life hit everybody pretty hard.

nah I was talking about the 6 years I was there and the thirty plus I have been aware of the school. in other words, suicides of students while at the school. I am sure more than a few grads did themselves-one guy kidnapped a classmate's kid (he had mental issues) and then after getting out tried to rob a bank (no gun). he wasted himself in the pen. but I don't count him since that was post graduate activity
 
Sad to see.

My graduating class had 1,200 people in it. We lost 112 people over the course of 4 years. 23 of them were suicides.

May I ask how much of a drug abuse problem there was?
 
I think that there are multiple reasons for that. Parents in private schools are more likely to be heavily involved (many require the parents to contribute service hours). Private schools are smaller. Private schools tend to be more ethnically/religiously/economically homogeneous. Private schools tend to have more students with intact families.

There are probably more reasons but now I'm tired of listing them.

In our community, there are really only 2 private high schools that my kids could attend. One is whackdoo religious and the other is extremely expensive (and has a major drug problem). I'm okay with my kids being in public schools.

many private schools in the cincinnati area are actually more diverse in terms of race and creed. (well the real private schools-the catholic schools-no surprise-don't feature many holy rollers Muslims or Jews). the school my kid goes to has Asians, Muslim Arabs, Jews, Catholics, Greek Orthodox etc

the white suburban schools or inner city black schools are less diverse
 
If there weren't any public schools then this wouldn't have happened. Bullies don't last long in private schools.

I went to a private school for part of my education. It was MUCH worse there than it was in public school.

I don't know why you think that.
 
Why can some people handle it - and others can't?

Unless they focus on the individual problems student to student - psychologically, etc - they'll never actually figure it out.

I'm no expert, yet the whole focus of the bully process is to get you to focus on something that they can disrupt, and then show their 'dominance' by disrupting it. If you don't let them get to get your mind to small as to say that whatever they are out to dominate is so important that you are 'less', or even 'as good as dead' without it, then they fail. This is where a faith that focuses on God's full nature, and notes how deeply we are in God, comes to give a means to conquer such diminution of potentials noted by our minds. Such a person needs God themselves more than you might ever imagine.
 
May I ask how much of a drug abuse problem there was?
Pretty bad. The problem is the town was big in terms of area, but everything was very far apart and there was almost no public transit. Massive amounts of boredom, zero availability for birth control, and no real transportation equals an epidemic of teen pregnancy, STD's, drug and alcohol abuse. Consequently, suicides were incredibly high.
 
I deal with both private and public schools every day. From a percentage standpoint, I see little or no difference in the amount of bullying between the two. I've worked with kids that have transferred from private to public or vice versa because of bullying. The impact that bullying has on a kid depends on several factors. The intensity of the bullying; the amount of people involved in the bullying; whether the school has a bullying policy or not; whether the school acts on the reports of bullying; and, probably most importantly, the individual psychological make-up of the kid being bullied.

If we look at things from a suicide standpoint, again, I have seen little or no difference, percentage-wise between private and public schools in my area. The reasons for suicidality, however, do seem to often have a different focus, if they are school based, between the two. For kids in private schools, the most likely cause I've seen for suicidality is overwork, being pushed too hard, and feeling as if they are not reaching expectations. For those in public schools, socialization issues are more likely the cause. My perception is that this is based on the fact that many of the private schools in my area are FAR more homogeneous than those that are public. This tends to foster far more pressure, whereas the increased diversity of public schools can create more social issues.

At least this has been what I have seen.
 
I deal with both private and public schools every day. From a percentage standpoint, I see little or no difference in the amount of bullying between the two. I've worked with kids that have transferred from private to public or vice versa because of bullying. The impact that bullying has on a kid depends on several factors. The intensity of the bullying; the amount of people involved in the bullying; whether the school has a bullying policy or not; whether the school acts on the reports of bullying; and, probably most importantly, the individual psychological make-up of the kid being bullied.

Well, you speak of this as though it is some grand experiment going on to measure the tolerance of our children. As any adult would have legal recourse against individuals who constantly stalked, and harassed them under any number of laws, why are our children not protected the same way? Are the administrators, and teachers that incompetent?


If we look at things from a suicide standpoint, again, I have seen little or no difference, percentage-wise between private and public schools in my area. The reasons for suicidality, however, do seem to often have a different focus, if they are school based, between the two. For kids in private schools, the most likely cause I've seen for suicidality is overwork, being pushed too hard, and feeling as if they are not reaching expectations. For those in public schools, socialization issues are more likely the cause. My perception is that this is based on the fact that many of the private schools in my area are FAR more homogeneous than those that are public. This tends to foster far more pressure, whereas the increased diversity of public schools can create more social issues.

At least this has been what I have seen.

Our school system should not be a social experiment for the liberal elite that run the education system.


j-mac
 
this article makes me sick, in that those nasty kids will get away with deplorable behavior and only become more despicable adults.

I'll never cease to be blown away at how Liberals get all hyped over stuff like this, yet they are the world's worst at ridiculing those who are different than they are. Trully amazing.
 
I'm no expert, yet the whole focus of the bully process is to get you to focus on something that they can disrupt, and then show their 'dominance' by disrupting it. If you don't let them get to get your mind to small as to say that whatever they are out to dominate is so important that you are 'less', or even 'as good as dead' without it, then they fail. This is where a faith that focuses on God's full nature, and notes how deeply we are in God, comes to give a means to conquer such diminution of potentials noted by our minds. Such a person needs God themselves more than you might ever imagine.

Man's belief in God has fostered or given firm belief and strength to the most terrifying 'bullying' possible. Where some might lean on God for support and strength - just as many lean on him to *be* the bully (Islamic extremism and their intolerance, Westboro Baptist - to name just two things).

So I don't feel that suggesting 'God is a strength and purpose for people who are bullied or are the bully' is true or going to lead anywhere positive.
 
I have noticed that a common thread in all of the recent "teen girl bullying suicides"- these, Phoebe Prince, Hope Witsell, Jessica Logan- is that the bullying is sexual in nature; the bullies taunt the victims by calling the "sluts" and "whores"; in all cases, this is because of something the victims have done: texted nude photos to a boy, had sex with a boy.

There's a moral here; IMO, it is not that teenage girls shouldn't have sex or have sexual relationships.
It's that they shouldn't care what people think about it.

When I was a teenager, I slept with a lot of guys (and a few girls), and I didn't care who knew it. I mean, everybody knew it- I had a kid when I was fifteen. And another when I was seventeen.

I don't recall ever feeling one bit ashamed of anything I was doing. If I'd thought there was anything wrong with it, I wouldn't have done it, or I would've stopped doing it.
It didn't concern me in the least that other, non-sexually-active teens might look down on me for it. I'm not sure it ever even occurred to me that they might. Maybe they did, and I just never noticed. I was pretty oblivious to that sort of thing: very singularly focused on my own goals and schemes and plans, not much concerned about what anyone thought.

I think part of it was the time in which I grew up: the 80s, the early 90s. It was a more sexually liberal era than today.
Part of it was my own upbringing, in the context of this more sexually-liberal culture: I felt pretty good about myself when I was young. But I did not feel very good about being a kid. I grew up believing- whether this was consciously instilled in me, or whether I simply inferred it- that being a child was a pretty lame condition, that it was better to be grown up, and that I ought to try to get there as soon as possible. My sexuality was part of who I was; I accepted that. It did not define me in my entirety, but it was one facet of who I was. It never occurred to me that it might be considered unacceptable. If someone had suggested that my sexuality was an unacceptable thing and ought to be repressed, I would've figured something was wrong with them, not with me.

I did feel kind of bad when I was always the smallest kid in my class, when I was the only girl in fifth grade who had not started developing breasts, the only girl in seventh who had not started her period.
I mean, my self-esteem remained intact throughout this, but it was frustrating. Mentally, I was older than my years. Mentally, I already had sexual feelings. I already felt like an adult. But I was still trapped in this child's body. Around fourteen, I finally went through puberty, and immediately began seeking out sexual adventures. I was an intrepid and adventurous and curious young person. That had always been my personality. It extended to my sexuality as well. I had only been waiting for my body to catch up with the rest of me.

Anyway- writing this now, in the context of today's socio-political climate- it sounds wrong.
It sounds like there was something wrong with me.
But it didn't feel that way then, and it still doesn't feel that way now.
It was my life. My personality- my wants, my will- was the engine that drove it.
I couldn't wait to be grown up, in every possible way. Because I had felt like an adult trapped in a child's body all my life, and I hated being a kid. I loved my family, I liked my teachers, my friends- I liked my circumstances well enough. I just hated being small and powerless. I wanted to be an adult, and have the power and freedom that adults have.
To me, sexuality was part of that. It was a necessary component of becoming an adult as quickly as humanly possible.

And so. Well, I've digressed, but my point is, if a peer had teased and taunted me by calling me a "slut", I wouldn't have cared. I might or might not have done something to put her in her place, depending on who it was and what kind of mood I happened to be in that day. Either way, I wouldn't have given a crap about her opinion. I did whatever I wanted. I didn't have much concern for what others thought about that. They weren't the ones living my life. I felt society in general supported me in my opinion that sexuality was good, that female sexuality specifically was an avenue to freedom and power, and that being an adult was waaaay better than being a child. Maybe I was delusional, I don't know, but that is definitely the clear message I was getting back then. I don't think the yapping of a few ignorant virgins who didn't even know what sex was would've fazed me in the least. I would've just assumed- correctly- that they didn't know what they were talking about, but that eventually they'd figure it out.

Maybe, as a society, we need to get back to the more liberal place we were twenty years ago, in regard to sex, specifically female sexuality. It felt like an emotionally healthier place.
Sex- and sexuality, and being overtly sexual- felt like empowerment then, not like some sort of shameful victimization.

Perhaps more teenagers were having more sex at a younger age, but at least they weren't hanging themselves in their closets. And if you have sex- whether it's good or bad, or even if you regret it at some future time- you still live to fight another day. You just chalk it up to experience and move on.
But if you hang yourself in your closet, there are no more days. No more chances.

That's my two cents, anyway.
 
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Full-time bullies should be removed from the schooling environment so that they can get help and psychological assessment. I'm not talking about petty teasing here, which everyone does at some point in school. I'm talking about the extreme cases.

People are not driven to suicide for no reason. It is not easy to come to that conclusion or to commit the act. The amount of suffering must have been overwhelming in order for it to override the will to live and survive. The other thing I'm wondering though is where are the coping resources of these children? Most suicides happen because suffering outweighs resources of support. Were the parents oblivious or unhelpful? Was the school turning a blind eye to pleas for help?

I was bullied pretty bad in grade 8. I'm over it now, but it mostly left a bitter taste in my mouth about the education system. I was bullied openly and in front of teachers. In fact, some teachers even took part. I'd imagine that in cases where bullying drives a person to suicide, you are looking at schools with teachers that are overworked and thus can't have time to care, they don't care or don't know how to adequately deal with it, or they are actively taking part.

Children should not be slipping through the cracks and dying because of bullying in the year 2010. Zero tolerance should mean zero tolerance. Remove the bullies, not the victims.
 
Full-time bullies should be removed from the schooling environment so that they can get help and psychological assessment. I'm not talking about petty teasing here, which everyone does at some point in school. I'm talking about the extreme cases.

People are not driven to suicide for no reason. It is not easy to come to that conclusion or to commit the act. The amount of suffering must have been overwhelming in order for it to override the will to live and survive. The other thing I'm wondering though is where are the coping resources of these children? Most suicides happen because suffering outweighs resources of support. Were the parents oblivious or unhelpful? Was the school turning a blind eye to pleas for help?

I was bullied pretty bad in grade 8. I'm over it now, but it mostly left a bitter taste in my mouth about the education system. I was bullied openly and in front of teachers. In fact, some teachers even took part. I'd imagine that in cases where bullying drives a person to suicide, you are looking at schools with teachers that are overworked and thus can't have time to care, they don't care or don't know how to adequately deal with it, or they are actively taking part.

Children should not be slipping through the cracks and dying because of bullying in the year 2010. Zero tolerance should mean zero tolerance. Remove the bullies, not the victims.



Is calling someone a slut, throwing food at them, disseminating text pictures of their boobs that they took themselves, or writing on a social networking site that they are a whore really "bullying"?

If the "victim" feels fine about herself and what she's done in the past, what she's doing at present, and what she plans to do in the future, is she truly a "victim" at all?
The people doing it are obviously threatened by the victim and her behavior because they are insecure about their own sexuality. All the so-called "victim" has to do is turn that back around on them. Or merely ignore them, and watch with amused satisfaction as they wallow in their own insecurity.

We need a society which accepts and supports every aspect of young people, including their sexuality, which is an undeniable part of who each and every one of them is.
We had that at one time (late 60s through early 90s).
Now we've somehow regressed back to the 1950s again, at least as far as our collective attitude toward female sexuality is concerned.

When we as a culture return to a more reasonable attitude toward our young women, they will cease hanging themselves in closets.
Until then, nothing is likely to halt such tragedies, which seem to happen every week now, and inevitably occur because some young woman attempted to utilize her sexuality in some way (whether to attract the attention of a guy she liked, or to bond an existing relationship with one), and other young women (and young men, in some cases) felt threatened by that, and decided to respond to the perceived threat by attacking the young woman in question for daring to be overtly sexual.

All of the people involved in this equation are dysfunctional, because of our current social climate- both the bullies, who perceive a classmate's sexuality as a threat, and the victim herself, who perceives her own sexuality as something so shameful that she ought to end her life, just because her peers tell her that it is.

Let's get back to a healthier attitude, people, seriously.
Does your own child have to die, before you can see how harmful and damaging sexual repressive societies are to females?

And don't even get me started on all the gay male teens who are committing suicide these days because of this exact same dynamic (substitute "fag" for "slut" and the bullying follows the exact same trajectory).

Sexually repressive societies are UNHEALTHY FOR EVERYONE.
 
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Well, you speak of this as though it is some grand experiment going on to measure the tolerance of our children. As any adult would have legal recourse against individuals who constantly stalked, and harassed them under any number of laws, why are our children not protected the same way? Are the administrators, and teachers that incompetent?

You must be reading a different post... or interpreting it based on your own biases. That's not what I'm saying at all.

Our school system should not be a social experiment for the liberal elite that run the education system.

More absurdity, j-mac? Not surprising. This is not a partisan issue... at least not to anyone that is not partisan... hint, hint. Probably the most important thing that kids learn in school is effective socialization. People get bullied. Learning effective ways to deal with it, be that getting help or doing something productive, is a skill that benefits everyone.
 
I'll never cease to be blown away at how Liberals get all hyped over stuff like this, yet they are the world's worst at ridiculing those who are different than they are. Trully amazing.

It never ceases to amaze me how hacks seem to believe that everything that is discussed becomes an "I hate the other guys" issue.
 
Look around and if don't see where young people learn BULLYING you're blind.

It happens in the so-called news every night with people the likes of O'bermann, Mathews and Ed Schultz spewing hate ans name calling.

I see it here in this forum all the time, from people claiming to be good solid American and yet they personally attack others because they have a different viewpoint.

I try to limit my attacks to those who have attacked me and then only try to call into question their clearly limited general knowledge and literary abilities.

Parents I am sad to report have become poor roll models where there are parents even present, what with having to hold down two jobs, either mom, dad or both doing or having done time, or ran off with drug freak.

obama_youth_04.jpg


Just look at Obama "A roll model?" Hell no he's a damn coke freak, and that is no Winston he's token either.

Children have some things much better than we has them but the pressure they have can bee must than when everything was a little slower and less rushed.

The hateful little punks that bullied this young lady need a good old fashion trip to the wood shed.
 
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