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O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

Jetboogieman said:
So basically you didn't prove me wrong.
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Instead of finding a way to prove me wrong about the assertion that niether the Chinese or America have anything to gain from a genocidal destructive nuclear war that would destroy both countries...

You start talking about terrorism and other things that have nothing to do with the OP or your original point....

Report: China, Iran, North Korea have formed strategic alliance

China, Iran and North Korea: A Triangular Strategic Alliance," by Israel's GLORIA Center said China and North Korea were the key suppliers of Scud-based ballistic missiles to Iran's military, the target of Western sanctions.
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If you're Chinese, it makes sense. Iran doesn't like us and China is getting ready for war. They can sell weapons to Iran and get oil in exchange.
 
ric27 said:
Again, you don't understand terrorists or terrorism and before, I continue there is enough unaccounted for plutonium to make several bombs. Nuclear material is readily available from the former Soviet Union and from N. Korea. Period

The cost since then can be counted in the billions. It is counted in the millions who changed their lives and were afraid to travel or visit possible target cities. The goal of a terrorist attack is to create terror. To cause a change. The actual number of deaths is merely a collateral effect....
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The present fear doesn't remotely compare to the fear of a nuclear attack in the 50s through 70s. We lived through it then, we'll do it again.

The only nuclear parts available from Russia are rods, rods they furnished Iran for their nuc power plants. As for N Korea nucs, a team of UN 24 scientists destroyed all traces. It was covered on TV news.

Before you spread your own brand of terror, catch up with the latest news.

ricksfolly
 
apdst said:
And prior to 1940, Japan's largest trading partner was The United States. Ric! You're on to something here! :rofl
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France was invaded because it was a neighbor as were the other countries bordering German. We were strangling Japan's oil supply hence Pearl Harbor. Then of course we went to war with them.

Trying to make a comparison to China is just plain silly and shows an igorance of history.
 
ric27 said:
Read up on Chinese history both old and modern - full of proof that the lives of their citizens are not important to the government

Slaughtering millions in the cultural revolution, killing protesters in Tiananmen Square, prisoners labor in slave labor camps and when they die or are executed, their organs are harvested.
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I really get tired of people misrepresenting situations like this. The Cultural Revolution was effectively a civil war. Red Guards and the PLA actually had battles with each other in several areas. What happened in Beijing in 1989 (there is no indication anyone was actually killed in the Square) was regrettable, but it was not some deliberate massacre of innocent protesters. Soldiers were killed, beaten, and even set on fire. Some units cracked down harder than others, but we were talking about millions of people and who knows how many actually attacking soldiers. That the number was most likely only in the hundreds indicates it was not a massacre.

Labor camps are hardly unusual either as many countries punish minor criminals (the people generally sent to the labor camps with the overwhelming majority having been convicted of a real crime) by forcing them to engage in some sort of unpaid labor. Some prisons have engaged in illicit activities like organ harvesting, but the Chinese government has been taking measures to stop such acts.

Whatever you have been told about China you were not given the whole story.
 
ric27 said:
China isn't ready to go to war with us yet, but make no mistake, they will. Right now they are sucking in huge bucks selling us stuff and making our economy dependent on their industry.

Before you say that it makes no sense that they would start a war with their largest trading partner, wars seldom make much sense after they've started. Guess which nation was Germany's largest trading partner prior to 1940? Answer: France.
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That may have had something to do with the surrender terms of WWI....
 
ric27 said:
Report: China, Iran, North Korea have formed strategic alliance



If you're Chinese, it makes sense. Iran doesn't like us and China is getting ready for war. They can sell weapons to Iran and get oil in exchange.
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They can sell things to Iran and get oil without engaging in military conflict with the most powerful armed forces the planet has ever seen.

You've yet to demonstrate what, exactly, China would stand to gain from attacking us. You've been asked several times. Obviously, you have nothing. China can sell things to Iran without getting their faces smashed in by a carrier battle group or six. Much better outcomes that way.
 
Deuce said:
They can sell things to Iran and get oil without engaging in military conflict with the most powerful armed forces the planet has ever seen.

You've yet to demonstrate what, exactly, China would stand to gain from attacking us. You've been asked several times. Obviously, you have nothing. China can sell things to Iran without getting their faces smashed in by a carrier battle group or six. Much better outcomes that way.
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Deuce - The Chinese population outnumbers us...I believe it's 5:1. Their undocumented, i.e. unreported births, population is 300,000,000 (That is equal to the entire US population)

Ok, why the unreported births?

Do you remember China's attempt at pop control via a rule of “one child per family,” with financial penalties for having more than one kid. What most Americans did not realize, and what Beijing will not admit, is that the family is by far the most important unit of loyalty in Chinese culture. Many families went ahead and had 2, 3, 4 kids and simply never reported the births to local municipal authorities.

China could trade US casualties one for one until there wasn't an American left, and it would bring their population down to their official level.

Chinese aren't the mullahs we're talking about, they don't shoot from the hip, and they plan decades ahead. They are far more calculating than any western capitalist could ever hope to be, and don't think for a second that they won't factor in the potential costs of a campaign before they become enamored with its potential benefits.
 
Councilman said:
If you are just coming to a point when you ask what China's long term goald are you have no idea of what Chins as been going from the very day that President Nixon opened China to trade, you have not been paying attention.

In general all Socialist/Communist/Marxist/Maoist to survive must expand in natural, agricultural, manufacturing, and human resources of face implosion because the System drains all of these resources domestically, along with all the incentives of those who once were the RICH who were over Taxed in order to fulfill the whole manta: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

It comes to a point when the system collapses and there are no more rich or pecieved rich to take from to give to those who take but contribute little.

End of story, O'Donnell got it right. There is no greater prize on earth than th U.S.A. that is what the Soviet Union had in mind before it's collapse.
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Welcome to 2010. Mao died 34 years ago. China is communist in name only today.
 
ric27 said:
Deuce - The Chinese population outnumbers us...I believe it's 5:1. Their undocumented, i.e. unreported births, population is 300,000,000 (That is equal to the entire US population)

Ok, why the unreported births?

Do you remember China's attempt at pop control via a rule of “one child per family,” with financial penalties for having more than one kid. What most Americans did not realize, and what Beijing will not admit, is that the family is by far the most important unit of loyalty in Chinese culture. Many families went ahead and had 2, 3, 4 kids and simply never reported the births to local municipal authorities.

China could trade US casualties one for one until there wasn't an American left, and it would bring their population down to their official level.

Chinese aren't the mullahs we're talking about, they don't shoot from the hip, and they plan decades ahead. They are far more calculating than any western capitalist could ever hope to be, and don't think for a second that they won't factor in the potential costs of a campaign before they become enamored with its potential benefits.
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What, for ****'s sake, would China gain by engaging in a military conflict with the world's most powerful armed forces?

Either answer the question or drop this derail.
 
Phoenix said:
At this point in history I could care less if she's a wiccan ogre princesss that believes I should be struck by lightning for wackin off as long as she is willing to help get spending under control and roll back some of the social programs that have been enacted.

Priorities here....
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Good point, bad visual picture. lol
 
Jetboogieman said:
The world has changed since then.

You're a smart but misinformed guy. You know what MAD is...

So how can you have a war without MAD being a factor...

I mean the USSR and America never went to war because of it. Why is this any different?

And you could just as easily say that China is dependent on your money, as opposed to you being dependent on their industry...
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Anyone with an I.Q. over 150 can see the distinct pattern on what is to come....China clearly is at great odds with the U.S. and trading has no meaning in this world once war starts.

China (with Russia, etc) is clearly on a path to stop the U.S. influence on all of mankind.

A Russian General even said there needs to be a global war to stop the U.S. influence on all of mankind.

China is the new sleeping giant that the U.S. is awakening....
 
danarhea said:
The term "Social Conservative" is an oxymoron.
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Not really. It's just is an oxymoron to people who believe that their ideology was either the "true" liberalism or conservatism and cannot see beyond a one-dimensional label, which happens to be your group.
 
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China is a developing country, but it is a country with significant weaknesses. The more we go into debt to them, the more we owe them, yet they also become more tied to our financial success or ruin. Plus, their economy is not in such great shape, itself. It wants to be independent, but so far, not really physically expansive.

China can go either way, folks. It will take a couple of decades to figure it out.
 
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Fiddytree said:
China is a developing country, but it is a country with significant weaknesses. The more we go into debt to them, the more we owe them, yet they also become more tied to our financial success or ruin. Plus, their economy is not in such great shape, itself. It wants to be independent, but so far, not really physically expansive.

China can go either way, folks. It will take a couple of decades to figure it out.
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You are correct....a couple of decades will figure it out.

A couple of decades and China will pass the U.S. economically and then in turn militarily.

Basic math shows it is inevitable for China to become the most powerfull country on the planet by far...
 
It had been predicted for centuries, however, with just about each time failing to come to fruition-or, at least, to the degree people thought. The problem with China was that something or a multitude of things prevented it from becoming the juggernaut many powers thought it would have.
 
Fiddytree said:
It had been predicted for centuries, however, with just about each time failing to come to fruition-or, at least, to the degree people thought. The problem with China was that something or a multitude of things prevented it from becoming the juggernaut many powers thought it would have.
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The turning point was when many factory owners in the U.S. became traitors and closed factories to go over to China for cheaper labor.

True China was always an ancient culture stuck in their ways which has prevented them from becoming the "juggernaut".

It seems as if China only embraced capitalism to generate technology and income which it is putting most of it into its military technology.

China is far more powerful and advanced militarily than western media portrays.

I can get deep into their advances but it doesn't matter.

What matters is the fact it is imminent China will be the most powerful country in the world and will pass the U.S. like it is standing still within 20yrs...
 
creativedreams said:
Anyone with an I.Q. over 150 can see the distinct pattern on what is to come....China clearly is at great odds with the U.S. and trading has no meaning in this world once war starts.

China (with Russia, etc) is clearly on a path to stop the U.S. influence on all of mankind.

A Russian General even said there needs to be a global war to stop the U.S. influence on all of mankind.

China is the new sleeping giant that the U.S. is awakening....
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Wow, another conspiracy. I'm shocked. :roll:
 
Well, he is overplaying it. That being said, this "conspiracy theory" is actually more along the lines of partisan hackery if anything else negative. It has a basis in reality, but it might overplay the hand. Most countries may enjoy a check on the United States with regard to foreign affairs, be they military, diplomatic, or economic. China probably just wants to be independent from the United States and enjoy economic progress with its large numbered (but small) middle class. It will probably build up a military presence, but I do not think, at least yet, that the United States itself is threatened. It might in the times to come threaten our interests, but probably not our homes and way of life. Of course, however, everyone's biggest fear is China wanting the United States to pay them back..but for the time being that would be suicide for the Chinese.
 
ric27 said:
The bombers on 9/11 killed a couple of thousand people. That was not the successful part of the operation. The successful part was shutting down travel in this nation for a week and the economic disruptions. The cost since then can be counted in the billions. It is counted in the millions who changed their lives and were afraid to travel or visit possible target cities. The goal of a terrorist attack is to create terror. To cause a change. The actual number of deaths is merely a collateral effect....
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The costs would have been significantly less if we hadn't had a warmongering idiot in the White House who invaded 2 countries without comprehensive mission goals.

p.s. china doesn't have to plot to take over us. We've already handed ourselves to them on a silver platter, economically speaking.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Welcome to 2010. Mao died 34 years ago. China is communist in name only today.
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Actually that's where there have been big changes in the last fifteen years. Pre-1989 their youth were very moderate and led the reform movement, like most western countries. After the massacre, the clampdown and the "re-education" of the youth, it's a whole other story. Look back at 2001 with the P-3 incident. The biggest protests were from students! They've effectively brainwashed the youth to fear imperialism and American pacific hegemony. It's not so much about Red Book-carrying communism
 
creativedreams said:
Anyone with an I.Q. over 150 can see the distinct pattern on what is to come....China clearly is at great odds with the U.S. and trading has no meaning in this world once war starts.

China (with Russia, etc) is clearly on a path to stop the U.S. influence on all of mankind.

A Russian General even said there needs to be a global war to stop the U.S. influence on all of mankind.

China is the new sleeping giant that the U.S. is awakening....
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Any one with an IQ over 160 can see that those with an IQ over 150 are wrong.
 
Fiddytree said:
Well, he is overplaying it. That being said, this "conspiracy theory" is actually more along the lines of partisan hackery if anything else negative. It has a basis in reality, but it might overplay the hand. Most countries may enjoy a check on the United States with regard to foreign affairs, be they military, diplomatic, or economic. China probably just wants to be independent from the United States and enjoy economic progress with its large numbered (but small) middle class. It will probably build up a military presence, but I do not think, at least yet, that the United States itself is threatened. It might in the times to come threaten our interests, but probably not our homes and way of life. Of course, however, everyone's biggest fear is China wanting the United States to pay them back..but for the time being that would be suicide for the Chinese.
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You're thinking like a western capitalist. Yes, they may share some of our values and motivations, but it is a trap to think that because we wouldn't go to war (with our mode of thinking and motivations) in their situation, they won't either.
 
ric27 said:
You're thinking like a western capitalist. Yes, they may share some of our values and motivations, but it is a trap to think that because we wouldn't go to war (with our mode of thinking and motivations) in their situation, they won't either.
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Perhaps, but I'm also thinking about what the Chinese would like to do, at least as far as what our specialists are looking at. China has never really been much for truly expansive behavior, save a few instances (Taiwan, for example). They have mostly been interested in their own borders.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
France was invaded because it was a neighbor as were the other countries bordering German.
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Who know what the real reasons were. They may have been petty, or some kind of long held anger as far back as the League of Nations where Germany was castrated, or none of the above.

History is only imaginative writer interpretations of newspaper articles and published records, 1/10th fact, 9/10s fiction, devoid of any kind of real continuity or logistics.

ricksfolly
 
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