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Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

jallman said:
At 34, I can't recall gay people being treated the way you claim they are. I don't recall any time that homos were rounded up by the police for having buttsecks or that homos were truly ostracized.

I think your response is more emotional than it is factual.
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don't you think your experience depends somewhat on your environment, jall?
 
liblady said:
don't you think your experience depends somewhat on your environment, jall?
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doesn't everyone's experience depend on their environment?

I live in what most of "you people" consider to be the bigot/racist/homophobe capital of the world and I haven't seen any of the crap glinda is whining about.
 
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OscarB63 said:
I live in what most of "you people" consider to be the bigot/racist/homophobe capital of the world and I haven't seen any of the crap glinda is whining about.
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Oh, well I guess it never happens then. My mistake.
 
Glinda said:
Oh, well I guess it never happens then. My mistake.
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read my earlier post. I am not denying it happens. I am stating that it is not the "rampant" crisis you insist. there is not now nor has ever been any large scale systematic persecution of gays in this country. being called a "fag" by someone who sees you kissing your lover in public is hardly on par with having signs that read "Niggers not welcome" posted at the city limits.

I have pictures from my grandfather's old photo album of help wanted signs with the words "Irish need not apply" at the bottom.
 
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OscarB63 said:
I am not denying it happens. I am stating that it is not the "rampant" crisis you insist.
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Uh. :confused: Where did I say this? Direct quote, please.

OscarB63 said:
there is not now nor has ever been any large scale systematic persecution of gays in this country.
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Uh. :confused: Where did I say this? Direct quote, please.
 
RightinNYC said:
Disabled > Very ugly > Very short > Minority > Very Poor > Gay
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I'd say at my daughter's school, which is about 30% minority, it goes like this, based upon what I've observed:

Disabled > Fat > Ugly > Poor > Gay > band/chorus nerd > Minority.

So, if you're a disabled fat unattractive poor black gay dude, you're essentially screwed. However, if you're an attractive, well-off gay guy, you're going to have a ton of friends.
 
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Glinda said:
Uh. :confused: Where did I say this? Direct quote, please.



Uh. :confused: Where did I say this? Direct quote, please.
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Jallman said
I don't recall any time that homos were rounded up by the police for having buttsecks or that homos were truly ostracized.
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you posted a link intended as a rebuttal. since you disagree that homos were not truly ostracized, it is logical to assume that you think they were.

your feigned "confusion" is disingenuous at best.
 
OscarB63 said:
Jallman said

you posted a link intended as a rebuttal. since you disagree that homos were not truly ostracized, it is logical to assume that you think they were.

your feigned "confusion" is disingenuous at best.
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So, I never said anything remotely like what you claim I did. Thanks for clearing that up. :thumbs:
 
jallman said:
At 34, I can't recall gay people being treated the way you claim they are. I don't recall any time that homos were rounded up by the police for having buttsecks or that homos were truly ostracized.

I think your response is more emotional than it is factual.
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I'm going from what I experienced growing up with a gay brother and numerous gay friends. People routinely spray painted "fag" on our house and tormented him at school. I have a friend who was sent to rehabilitation camp against his will. Every gay friend I have can tell you stories about how society treats them. Do you have any gay friends? I don't mean that in an angry way, I'm just asking because if you have gay friends, you have to know the kind of things they go through.

It's not that heterosexual people are immune to bullying. It's that what homosexuals go through is unique and we need to protect them. If you don't agree, that's fine, but you should at least see what's happening and not deny it. Do you guys have gay family members? Gay friends? How can you deny the hardships they face?
 
Glinda said:
So, I never said anything remotely like what you claim I did. Thanks for clearing that up. :thumbs:
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direct quote please of where i ever claimed you said anything.

you see, two can play at your stupid little game. :lamo
 
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Mustachio said:
This is total BS. The suffering of gay and lesbian high school/college students is unique. If you're fat, you can lose weight. If you're a nerd, you can change the way you dress and start listening to cool music.
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I'm sorry, but are you saying what people find ENJOYABLE is something they can physically control and change?

Would ACTING like you like different music, or dislike certain activities, or talk in a certain way when its not actually how you feel any different than ACTING like you like someone of the opposite sex?

As to what kind of bullying is "worse". I think its really hard to determine. Location does play into it. Additionally, the ability of that individual to DEAL and adapt and react to the bullying ALSO greatly affects how intense or harsh it is.

There was a thread once about bullying and name calling and such that a poster who is no longer with us was participating in and I shared a bit of personal history about myself, stating my honest belief of how much smaller...despite it bothering me at that time in my life...it must be compared to what she and other homosexuals experienced. In one of the kindest and most heart touching acts I've ever had online she quietly sent me a PM telling me that I should not degrade my own situation, that people who are treated wrongly should not judge each other as somehow "worse" or "better" in severity than the others but that they're equals and thanked me for sharing my story. Her words kind of stuck with me.

Kids can be assholes, they can be jerks. They can be jerks because you're black, because you're fat, because you're short, because you're rich, because you're smart, because you speak funny, because you're a geek, because you're gay, because you're in band, because of who you're dating, because of your parents, because of x, y, or z. Rather than pointing fingers going "oh that group gets it so much worse than others", thus belittling the experiences and possible pain others have had, the thought should be more pointed on solutions in helping people to deal with those situations be it emotionally or in a more proactive way.

There may be times when a kid is picked on far worse becasue he's gay than a kid that's just poor and akward, but there are undoubtably times when the opposite is true. Hell, in my fraternity at college we had one brother who was gay who rarely if ever got any ribbing done to him regarding his sexuality while we had a straight brother who was greatly metrosexual that I'd dare say got ten times the "gay" ribbing then the actual gay guy did.

I think its completely overshooting the situation and attempting to try and make a political statement rather than deal with reality when we attempt to make out as if a particular group or situation is universally some kind of greater issue or problem.
 
Mustachio said:
I'm going from what I experienced growing up with a gay brother and numerous gay friends. People routinely spray painted "fag" on our house and tormented him at school. I have a friend who was sent to rehabilitation camp against his will. Every gay friend I have can tell you stories about how society treats them. Do you have any gay friends? I don't mean that in an angry way, I'm just asking because if you have gay friends, you have to know the kind of things they go through.

It's not that heterosexual people are immune to bullying. It's that what homosexuals go through is unique and we need to protect them. If you don't agree, that's fine, but you should at least see what's happening and not deny it. Do you guys have gay family members? Gay friends? How can you deny the hardships they face?
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They should bow up and protect themselves. I learned in high school that if you kick the living **** out of a bully, there's a high probability that he'll never pick on your again.
 
Mustachio said:
It's that what homosexuals go through is unique and we need to protect them.
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specific examples please of the "unique" harassment gays go thru.
 
Glinda said:
Hm. Who exactly were you speaking to when you posted this:




:roll:
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ah...but I never claimed that you "said" anything. which is what you were whining about. your opinion is clear from your attitude and pretending to be insulted is simply dishonest.
 
apdst said:
What were you saying, then?
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That "homos are NOT rounded up by the police for having buttsecks;" it's homophobes that go after gay people, not police. Duh.
 
Glinda said:
That "homos are NOT rounded up by the police for having buttsecks;" it's homophobes that go after gay people, not police. Duh.
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1) Jall said that gays are not rounded up for being gay (i.e. there is no systematic persecution by the state).

2) You said that it wasn't the state, but that it was homophobes who did it. That clearly implies that you think there is systematic persecution by homophobes.

3) Oscar said that there has not been systematic persecution of gays in this country.

4) You pretended like you never said anything to the contrary.
 
Wait wait wait...are we saying that bullies who pick on Gays are "special" bullies in that they're all homophobes?

Are bullies who pick on fat kids "fataphobes"? Are people who pick on geeks "geekaphobes"?

Is it not possible that a bully is just that, a jackass bully, and thus they're picking on people using whatever obvious trait outside the social norm is present in the individual that is their target?

Are the people bullying gays magically kind and nice to everyone else? Is their bullying limited solely to gay people?

I'm not dismissing the fact that there are homophobes out there, or people doing horrible things to gays at times because they're gay. However I'd dare say the vast majority of SCHOOL bullying being perpetrated upon gays are being done because the people are bullies and/or peer pressure and the individual happens to be outside the soical norm.
 
RightinNYC said:
1) Jall said that gays are not rounded up for being gay (i.e. there is no systematic persecution by the state).

2) You said that it wasn't the state, but that it was homophobes who did it. That clearly implies that you think there is systematic persecution by homophobes.

3) Oscar said that there has not been systematic persecution of gays in this country.

4) You pretended like you never said anything to the contrary.
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game, set, match.

me = win
glinda = fail

:doh
 
Glinda said:
That "homos are NOT rounded up by the police for having buttsecks;" it's homophobes that go after gay people, not police. Duh.
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So, there is a large group of people that sytematically go after gays, for being gay? Kinda like Gay Nazis, or something of that nature.

Ernst Rohm and his Brown Shirts, only in America? Oh, wait, Ernst Rohm most of the Brown Shirts were gay, that's not a good comparison. Anyway, you know what I mean.
 
Zyphlin said:
Wait wait wait...are we saying that bullies who pick on Gays are "special" bullies in that they're all homophobes?

Are bullies who pick on fat kids "fataphobes"? Are people who pick on geeks "geekaphobes"?

Is it not possible that a bully is just that, a jackass bully, and thus they're picking on people using whatever obvious trait outside the social norm is present in the individual that is their target?

Are the people bullying gays magically kind and nice to everyone else? Is their bullying limited solely to gay people?

I'm not dismissing the fact that there are homophobes out there, or people doing horrible things to gays at times because they're gay. However I'd dare say the vast majority of SCHOOL bullying being perpetrated upon gays are being done because the people are bullies and/or peer pressure and the individual happens to be outside the soical norm.
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Don't forget that the garden variety bully seaks out not only the kids who are different, but kids they perceive as being un-able, or un-willing to defend themselves.
 
Zyphlin said:
As to what kind of bullying is "worse". I think its really hard to determine. Location does play into it. Additionally, the ability of that individual to DEAL and adapt and react to the bullying ALSO greatly affects how intense or harsh it is.

There may be times when a kid is picked on far worse becasue he's gay than a kid that's just poor and akward, but there are undoubtably times when the opposite is true. Hell, in my fraternity at college we had one brother who was gay who rarely if ever got any ribbing done to him regarding his sexuality while we had a straight brother who was greatly metrosexual that I'd dare say got ten times the "gay" ribbing then the actual gay guy did.

I think its completely overshooting the situation and attempting to try and make a political statement rather than deal with reality when we attempt to make out as if a particular group or situation is universally some kind of greater issue or problem.
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I completely agree that it's hard to determine what kind of bullying is "worse." But you asked if pretending to like music is any different than pretending to like the opposite sex. Of course it's different. You're not going to stay awake at night worrying about how you're going to listen to Lady Gaga, but having to spend every day pretending you're just like everybody else and talking to girls, talking about sex, taking a date to the prom, all that stuff... it's living a lie. That will eat you up inside. It's completely different. You can always point to some kid who's got it worse, but that doesn't negate what homosexuals face.

OscarB63 said:
specific examples please of the "unique" harassment gays go thru.
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That's all I've been doing, dude.

Zyphlin said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say...yeah, Jall probably has gay friends.

Don't know if you realize or not but figure it may be useful for your responses, but Jall is homosexual.
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That doesn't change anything, especially not my viewpoint. A lot of homosexuals will say "it's not so bad," and of course it may be true or it may be that they want to appear strong and normal. They embrace their own identity and that's fantastic. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize what happens to gay people in America and do everything we can to make sure they have equal opportunity and freedom and protection.
 
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