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Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

Didn't say that people could not have it. What I said is that you made an assumption based on YOUR bias without any evidence or information that substantiated it. And that's what made it irrelevant, as I said. It really is just that simple.

What bias? I suggested a possible cause for this fellas suicide. I never said I was 100% sure, how would, or could I know?





Tim-
 
Ah, I see, so people can't have internalized homophobia? It is what homophobia is, afterall. I know that NOW it means something else, but back when the term was coined it meant something quite different. Either way, I don't care that you don't care. It happens to be the truth, regardless of whether you think it is.


Tim-

Of course that is correct. I have a family member with 3 master degrees in psychotherapy, 2 in body language with over 30 years of private practice charging nearly 200 dollars an hour.

He had clients who had this very problem. Dallas is home to one of the largest homosexual populations in the country and one of the highest if not the highest problem areas of homosexuals who abuse drugs. The problems they faced do range but he has had homosexual clients suffering from an array of mental problems from self loathing to fear of confronting the parents or dealing with abuse in their lives. So yes it does occur.
 
Sadly, the kids who perpetrated this can only face a maximum of 5 years in prison. I sincerely hope that this weighs heavily on their hearts for the rest of their lives. What they did was absolutely horrible. Time and time again, the ignorant never realize the possible repercussions before they do something like this.

Who is supposed to expect someone to take their own life?

It was a stupid prank yes. But blaming anyone else for one's own decision to kill themself is not acceptable. The responsibility rests with him and him alone.
 
No but it is enough to direct research, wouldn't you agree?


Tim-

Depends. Since there is no causational connection between homosexuality and mental illness, it might be a good idea to study why there is a correlation. I believe that the second link of texmaster's gives us some insight into some of those causes, and these tend to be external influences.
 
I don't care about the "gay" issue. That's not what concerns me at all. It's the invasion of privacy, not just the victim's but his lover as well, and the fact that they put it on the internet for the whole world to see. They had no right to do that. Whether he was ****ing a guy or a girl makes not the least bit of difference to me. I don't know if this is the reason he killed himself, it might be, who knows? They still had NO right to do what they did and they deserve the 5 years in jail that are hopefully coming to them. Anyone does this to my kid and you can be damn sure I'm throwing the book at them. Period.

So, then regardless of the suicide you think someone should get five years for posting a video of someone else without their consent?

And people say DWI Punishments are bad.... this is absolutely ridiculous.
 
Of course that is correct. I have a family member with 3 master degrees in psychotherapy, 2 in body language with over 30 years of private practice charging nearly 200 dollars an hour.

He had clients who had this very problem. Dallas is home to one of the largest homosexual populations in the country and one of the highest if not the highest problem areas of homosexuals who abuse drugs. The problems they faced do range but he has had homosexual clients suffering from an array of mental problems from self loathing to fear of confronting the parents or dealing with abuse in their lives. So yes it does occur.

These issues that you mention would not be considered internalized homophobia.
 
What bias? I suggested a possible cause for this fellas suicide. I never said I was 100% sure, how would, or could I know?





Tim-

Tell us why you would have chosen THAT particular possibility.
 
Depends. Since there is no causational connection between homosexuality and mental illness, it might be a good idea to study why there is a correlation. I believe that the second link of texmaster's gives us some insight into some of those causes, and these tend to be external influences.

No one said there was a causation. Only that there is data that simply, "being" homosexual, can lead to an increase in stress anxiety, depression, and various other forms of mental illness; not typical of the general population. Now, granted, external influences could be a problem for some, but the shere prevalance suggests something more at play. That's all the correlation indicates.


Tim-
 
These issues that you mention would not be considered internalized homophobia.

Actually they would. Self loathing is a very common characteristic among homosexuals who are depressed.
 
Tell us why you would have chosen THAT particular possibility.

Look, if the guy was out, and proud, he would not have knee jerked his way to a suicide. I assumed that, since the premise makes sense, he must have been closeted, and the shame of getting exposed could have pushed him over the edge. This is suggestive of internalized homophobia. At the time the information was current, there was no indication that he was an out gay man.


Tim-
 
Actually they would. Self loathing is a very common characteristic among homosexuals who are depressed.

Self Loathing for being a homosexual is often brought on in my opinion by society.

If everyone around you thinks your crazy for example, after awhile you're gonna believe it.

That is how you get self loathers. People who are unable to come to terms with who they are, because they believe whatever that is, is wrong. Because people made them feel that way.

How you get people like George Rekers.
 
Actually they would. Self loathing is a very common characteristic among homosexuals who are depressed.

The self-loathing issue might but the others would not in any way. Being depressed because of being abused, or being anxious because of fear around confessing to one's parents are not consistent with internalized homophobia. And depression may be common with homosexuals who self loath, but the reverse is not true. Gays are depressed for a variety of reasons, and just like heterosexuals, it may have nothing to do with their sexuality.
 
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No one said there was a causation. Only that there is data that simply, "being" homosexual, can lead to an increase in stress anxiety, depression, and various other forms of mental illness; not typical of the general population. Now, granted, external influences could be a problem for some, but the shere prevalance suggests something more at play. That's all the correlation indicates.


Tim-

In bold. That's where you try to present your opinion as fact. In no way does the prevelence suggest anything of the kind. "Being" homosexual doesn't cause this. But I'd be happy to see any substantiation for this opinion of yours. Go to it.
 
Self Loathing for being a homosexual is often brought on in my opinion by society.

If everyone around you thinks your crazy for example, after awhile you're gonna believe it.

That is how you get self loathers. People who are unable to come to terms with who they are, because they believe whatever that is, is wrong. Because people made them feel that way.

How you get people like George Rekers.

Its not always that clear cut. And I'm not saying all homosexuals experience this but abuse in the home, peer pressure or ones own feelings often lead to self loathing just as it does in non homosexuals for different reasons.
 
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Look, if the guy was out, and proud, he would not have knee jerked his way to a suicide. I assumed that, since the premise makes sense, he must have been closeted, and the shame of getting exposed could have pushed him over the edge. This is suggestive of internalized homophobia. At the time the information was current, there was no indication that he was an out gay man.


Tim-

Actually, it is NOT suggestive of internalized homophobia. I don't even think you know what this term means. What this IS suggestive of is one's anxiety about the reactions of others. This is pretty clear. YOUR extrapoliation takes a leap that has no connection to what we knew at the time.
 
The self-loathing issue might but the others would not in any way.
Being depressed because of being abused, or being anxious because of fear around confessing to one's parents are not consistent with internalized homophobia. And depression may be common with homosexuals who self loath, but the reverse is not true. Gay are depressed for a variety of reasons, and just like heterosexuals, it may have nothing to do with their sexuality.

Actually its quite true especially in cases of abuse. The self loathing is not very different from what many rape or other abuse victims encounter when examining their own feelings about the experience.
 
Its not always that clear cut. And I'm not saying all homosexuals experience this but abuse in the home, peer pressure or ones own feelings often lead to self loathing just as it does in non homosexuals.

When one speaks about human nature. Nothing is clear cut. It is after all an opinion and a theory.

A fair point.

Good day to you sir!

richardtipshat_small.jpg
 
Actually its quite true especially in cases of abuse. The self loathing is not very different from what many rape or other abuse victims encounter when examining their own feelings about the experience.

Not necessarily. Abuse victims DO feel self-BLAME at times, but self-loathing is far stronger terminology that is synonomous with self-hatred. Verbalizing this is far different than actually feeling and being it. One can say "I hate myself", but behaviors that exhibit these feelings are not always present. It's kinda like saying, "I hate my father" when you are actually just angry at him. Extremeness in terminology is usually misrepresentative. Self-blame? Yeah. Self-loathing? Nah, not very often.
 
In bold. That's where you try to present your opinion as fact. In no way does the prevelence suggest anything of the kind. "Being" homosexual doesn't cause this. But I'd be happy to see any substantiation for this opinion of yours. Go to it.

Do you accept that homosexuals commit suicide 6 times more than the general population?

Do you accept that by the law of statistical averages alone, one cannot attribute all homosexual suicide to external pressures? So, one of three questions needs to be addressed. Either, gay people kill themselves more becasue they are teased more, or maybe it has nothing at all to do with being homosexual, and they are as depressed as everyone else, and commit suicide for the same reasons as everyone else in the general population does? Or, they commit suicide because they cannot feel comfortable in their own skin, something feels wrong to them?

So the question to a potential research study would be. How many do what, because of which reason? Is it all external, is it all simply a matter of being human, or is it all a matter of internal reconcilliation? Maybe it's a combination of all three? Either way, something is causing them to suffer more than the general population in terms of suicide deaths.


Tim-
 
Actually, it is NOT suggestive of internalized homophobia. I don't even think you know what this term means. What this IS suggestive of is one's anxiety about the reactions of others. This is pretty clear. YOUR extrapoliation takes a leap that has no connection to what we knew at the time.

Well, ok.. NOT! :)

Tim-
 
Not necessarily. Abuse victims DO feel self-BLAME at times, but self-loathing is far stronger terminology that is synonomous with self-hatred. Verbalizing this is far different than actually feeling and being it. One can say "I hate myself", but behaviors that exhibit these feelings are not always present. It's kinda like saying, "I hate my father" when you are actually just angry at him. Extremeness in terminology is usually misrepresentative. Self-blame? Yeah. Self-loathing? Nah, not very often.

What behaviors exhibit hating oneself?


Tim-
 
Do you accept that homosexuals commit suicide 6 times more than the general population?

Do you accept that by the law of statistical averages alone, one cannot attribute all homosexual suicide to external pressures? So, one of three questions needs to be addressed. Either, gay people kill themselves more becasue they are teased more, or maybe it has nothing at all to do with being homosexual, and they are as depressed as everyone else, and commit suicide for the same reasons as everyone else in the general population does? Or, they commit suicide because they cannot feel comfortable in their own skin, something feels wrong to them?

So the question to a potential research study would be. How many do what, because of which reason? Is it all external, is it all simply a matter of being human, or is it all a matter of internal reconcilliation? Maybe it's a combination of all three? Either way, something is causing them to suffer more than the general population in terms of suicide deaths.


Tim-

All of what you said are legitimate questions. But let's look at your three possibilities:

1) Gay people kill themselves more of social issues
2) Gay people kill themselves for the same reasons that others do
3) Gay people kill themselves because the cannot feel comfortable in their own skin

The first one. I would say this is likely a factor. There is plenty of independent reporting and incidents of bias and attacks on gays to substantiate this. People reject them, even family members. So, yes, number 1 qualifies.

The second. One. Certainly. Gays have the same pressures and potential for mental illness as heterosexuals. Straights can be depressed; gays can be depressed. Straights can be anxious; gays can be anxious. Straights can have schizophrenia; gays can have schizophrenia. There is no causative relation between any of these issues and sexual orientation, so one would expect to see types of mental illness, regardless.

The third one. This is far too ambiguous. Why are they feeling uncomfortable in their own skin? If they are questioning their sexual orientation, this could occur with gays or straights. It could also mean that there is a psychological disorder causing this confusion/discomfort. If they are saying they don't like being gay, why is this? Is it religious? This goes to issue number one. Is it because of family? THIS goes to issue number one. My extrapolation of your point #3 leads back to point #1. Please be more clear with what you mean.
 
What behaviors exhibit hating oneself?


Tim-

Depends on the person. A suicide attempt COULD be... however, a suicide attempt is often a homicide attempt turned inwards. The individual is very angry at someone(s) and instead of harming THEM, they harm themselves. Same thing with any type of self-injury. It COULD be a form of self-hatred, but often is no, is instead a form of mood regulation or mood release. There is no clear cut answer. It often depends on the individual. Depression is often anger turned inwards. The perception of self-hatred is rarely that, but rather hatred towards someone/something external that that the individual has difficulty expressing... or even identifying. This is why the perception of self-loathing is nothing more than surface-stuff, concealing loathing of someone/something else. It's often a defense mechanism.
 
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