• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

Kali said:
My thoughts are that their actions KILLED this man. Murder.

While it may not be a bloody murder? Its Murder via mental contact!
Click to expand...

Well isn't someone quick to throw two teenagers under the bus. So I'm guessing you assume they should take the full punishment for this as well? We don't know the full story and as people have pointed out it just doesn't seem to add up. There seems to be more at play here then just this incident. You would condemn two teens to jail for being annoying prats? I think they need to be given a small fine and possibly expelled (at least suspended for a while) but you seem to be a bit harsh on these twos.

jallman said:
So after reading more about it, both the post by Hicup and the original story, I am thoroughly convinced that this kid had problems. He wasn't filmed having sex. There was no recording of the incident. He was streamed making out with a guy. Big ****ing deal. Who hasn't been seen in public making out at some point?

There were other issues at play here.
Click to expand...

I agree. If we just take this one incident then we see the type of escalation that he takes it to, his actions just seem nonsensical. It means he was either slightly (if not severely) disturbed to begin with, or that there is more going on here and this was just an isolated incident that just happened to occur before he finally took the leap. We can't even be sure if it's related to his suicide. They haven't found his body so I'm still hoping that he just faked his death. I know that sounds silly and that the chances of that are very very very slim, but they haven't found a suicide note or a body, and at least that gives some hope that he didn't actually do it. (And no the Facebook Status update does not count as a Suicide Note)
 
Last edited:
jallman said:
So after reading more about it, both the post by Hicup and the original story, I am thoroughly convinced that this kid had problems. He wasn't filmed having sex. There was no recording of the incident. He was streamed making out with a guy. Big ****ing deal. Who hasn't been seen in public making out at some point?

There were other issues at play here.
Click to expand...

I'm genuinely sorry the kid apparently took his own life, but people need to heat up some Jiffy Pop, break out a Heineken, and watch Revenge of the Nerds again, taking special note of the wrath wrought upon the sorority bitches by Wormser and Lamar's video cameras.
 
I'm pretty sure that recording someone without their permission - especially in a sexual act - and distributing that video online is some kind of criminal act.

Jall, I have to disagree with you. What happened at your dorm was embarrassing but it wasn't lasting. Video taping someone secretly in a sexual act and then distributing it is taking it to a whole other level of violation. I know technology in the modern world has blurred the privacy boundary, but are we just supposed to shrug this off and chalk it all up to the suicidal guy being unstable?

Maybe no one close to him knew he was gay, like his family or community back home? You of all people should know how devastating it can be to be outed against your will. It's ethically wrong to do that to someone; this took it a step further by violating his body by broadcasting it to the world.
 
OscarB63 said:
this kid was probably already on the verge of suicidal. I find it hard to believe that this one instance would be enough to cause an otherwise rational person decide to commit suicide. Not saying that what these two did was right, just saying that this gay dude already had some serious issues and this incident was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
Click to expand...

I would say, based on the information I have heard, and what I know about depression, mental illness, and sucidality, this is probably accurate.
 
Hicup said:
Internalized homophobia killed this boy.. Nothing else, or perhaps maybe not only the video, as some are suggesting.

Either way, who cares? I don't?


Tim-
Click to expand...

Internalized homophobia? Oh... just another one of your silly unsubstantiated opinions that have no merit. Gotcha.

My guess, based on what I've read, is that there was some significant depression going on with this guy, before this incident ever happened. I would like to know if he had ever been treated for any psychological issues, before, and what his friends would have said about his emotional state PRIOR to this happpening.
 
Orion said:
I'm pretty sure that recording someone without their permission - especially in a sexual act - and distributing that video online is some kind of criminal act.

Jall, I have to disagree with you. What happened at your dorm was embarrassing but it wasn't lasting. Video taping someone secretly in a sexual act and then distributing it is taking it to a whole other level of violation. I know technology in the modern world has blurred the privacy boundary, but are we just supposed to shrug this off and chalk it all up to the suicidal guy being unstable?

Maybe no one close to him knew he was gay, like his family or community back home? You of all people should know how devastating it can be to be outed against your will. It's ethically wrong to do that to someone; this took it a step further by violating his body by broadcasting it to the world.
Click to expand...

There is no evidence that there was a recording. There was a livestream, it wasn't a mass distribution, only a limited number of people saw it. Both parties have admitted that only kissing took place on camera, if that is a sexual act then public areas just got a whole lot more risqué.

The most that these kids can be charged with is a minor violation of privacy. Remember the stream only went out ONCE, the kid intended for it to go out again but it never did. Having a livestream of two guys kissing without their knowledge is a minor offence at best.

You guys keep focusing on the buzzwords of the articles and not the facts. It was not recorded, what was seen was not sexual, it was not a mass distribution on the web.
 
Last edited:
Here's the thing, folks. You know the old saying "the straw that breaks the camel's back"? Well, we all know that it isn't actually the straw that does the trick, but the 400 other things on the camel's back that did the real damage. The straw just seems like the cause because it is the last thing we remember. This kid had problems. The prank was unfortunate, and perhaps mean (to some), but it was a prank. These kids are not responsible for Tyler's suicide. I've deal with scores of suicides and I have never seen anyone powerful enough to FORCE someone to take their own life. Tyler made the decision based on his personal reaction to what occurred. The only thing the other kids are guilty of is choosing the wrong person to prank, not knowing how Tyler would have taken it, and any legal issues with posting what they did on the internet. There of internal conflict and distress that goes into suicide, but more important than what someone else does to the individual is how that individual TAKES what was done.
 
Orion said:
I'm pretty sure that recording someone without their permission - especially in a sexual act - and distributing that video online is some kind of criminal act.

Jall, I have to disagree with you. What happened at your dorm was embarrassing but it wasn't lasting. Video taping someone secretly in a sexual act and then distributing it is taking it to a whole other level of violation. I know technology in the modern world has blurred the privacy boundary, but are we just supposed to shrug this off and chalk it all up to the suicidal guy being unstable?

Maybe no one close to him knew he was gay, like his family or community back home? You of all people should know how devastating it can be to be outed against your will. It's ethically wrong to do that to someone; this took it a step further by violating his body by broadcasting it to the world.
Click to expand...

Umm, it said that he asked his roommate if he could bring a guy back to the room. I don't see that as him being very closeted to start with. Plus, it wasn't video taped. It was streamed to some people on a twitter list. And they weren't having sex...they were kissing.

He seriously over reacted to it. Was it a violation of his privacy? Yeah. Was it the end of the world and worth jumping off a bridge over? Not to any healthy, sane person. I think that people are focusing too much on the end of the trail instead of all the things that brought the journey to this point on in the first place.
 
Orion said:
Jall, I have to disagree with you. What happened at your dorm was embarrassing but it wasn't lasting. Video taping someone secretly in a sexual act and then distributing it is taking it to a whole other level of violation. I know technology in the modern world has blurred the privacy boundary, but are we just supposed to shrug this off and chalk it all up to the suicidal guy being unstable?
Click to expand...

Given that the guy had an account at a website where he streamed video of himself naked, it seems unlikely that the fact that a video of him kissing a guy might have been seen by a few people would be the thing to cause him to go nuts.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if him being forced out of the closet led to his suicide? Maybe the fear of being harassed for being a homosexual? I think there may be deeper issues here. Regardless, I don't believe the ones who recorded him should be punished for his suicide.
 
RightinNYC said:
Given that the guy had an account at a website where he streamed video of himself naked, it seems unlikely that a video of him kissing a guy might have been seen by a few people would be the thing to cause him to go nuts.
Click to expand...

Well, it might have triggered something, but his response to it indicates that there was a lot more going on with him than just this situation.

I have a contact or two at Rutgers. Because of confidentiality, they may be unwilling to tell me anything, but I'll give it a shot early in the week.
 
RightinNYC said:
Given that the guy had an account at a website where he streamed video of himself naked, it seems unlikely that the fact that a video of him kissing a guy might have been seen by a few people would be the thing to cause him to go nuts.
Click to expand...

And he did that under his real name?
 
digsbe said:
I wonder if him being forced out of the closet led to his suicide? Maybe the fear of being harassed for being a homosexual? I think there may be deeper issues here. Regardless, I don't believe the ones who recorded him should be punished for his suicide.
Click to expand...

That could have been a/the trigger. I would be interested in knowing whether he was "out" and if so, how "out" he was.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
That could have been a/the trigger. I would be interested in knowing whether he was "out" and if so, how "out" he was.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking too. Judging by the fact that he was making out with another man shows he was out to some degree, but definitely not open. I think the fear of being harassed and the shock of everyone knowing he is gay may have been the trigger or at least a factor in his decision to suicide. Maybe he also feared rejection from his family or friends over being a homosexual. I do think there were deeper issues, but this event led to a suicidal cascade. It's a shame, honestly I think many would side with him and condemn those who recorded him.
 
Kali said:
My thoughts are that their actions KILLED this man. Murder.

While it may not be a bloody murder? Its Murder via mental contact!
Click to expand...

If this was the catalyst as you claimed, how do you explain the postings he made?

"And so I feel like it was 'look at what a fag my roommate is,'" the cit2mo post said. "Other people have commented on his profile with things like 'how did you manage to go back in there? 'are you ok?'" The user also pointed out that people seemed to focus on his encounter, instead of the roommate's spying.

"...i mean come on...he was SPYING ON ME....do they see nothing wrong with this?" the post said.

At that point, the cit2mo message indicated that he had decided to fill out a form requesting a room change....
In previous posts on the same thread, cit2mo described his research into his school's privacy policy, and noted it said that recording someone in a place where they would expect privacy could result in expulsion.

"The only things is...there are too many 'could's ....the fact that he didn't ACTUALLY record me (to my knowledge) and the fact that the school really prolly won't do much of anything...."

He said he'd mention the incident to his RA before writing, "and yah, revenge never ends well for me, as much as I would love to pour pink paint all over his stuff.....that would just let him win....."

He asked for help, contemplated further action and never once made reference to his emotional state. These are not the actions of someone contemplating suicide.

We are missing many factors here to blame those 2 kids for his decision. Its not something you can hand a form to someone to fill out and expect to make a credible diagnosis.
 
If Ann Coulter was taped kissing another Woman in a way that presumed it was more than a hello/goodbye situation and it was on Private property with a full expectation of total privacy and some Olberman type scuzzball had the tape - wel(??) would it get all over including MSM in very short order ???? Do We really have to think on this one(??)
 
digsbe said:
That's what I'm thinking too. Judging by the fact that he was making out with another man shows he was out to some degree, but definitely not open. I think the fear of being harassed and the shock of everyone knowing he is gay may have been the trigger or at least a factor in his decision to suicide. Maybe he also feared rejection from his family or friends over being a homosexual. I do think there were deeper issues, but this event led to a suicidal cascade. It's a shame, honestly I think many would side with him and condemn those who recorded him.
Click to expand...

You could be right about this. It could have been the trigger, but for it to BE a trigger for him to kill himself, there must have been more significant mental health issues. One who is emotionally stable, just doesn't kill themselves out of the blue, no matter how difficult a situation they are presented. Not from what I've seen, at least.
 
BDBoop said:
And he did that under his real name?
Click to expand...

His user name was apparently not very well hidden, as both his roommate and reporters were able to uncover it with minimal effort

Either way, the point is that if someone willingly broadcasts video of himself performing sexual acts on a gay website all over the internet, it seems strange that a video of him merely kissing a guy being streamed to a couple college kids would cause him such embarrassment that he would commit suicide. This is particularly true where the kid involved doesn't appear to be very closeted, if at all.

As has been stated repeatedly, it sounds like there's a lot more to this story than we currently know.
 
Last edited:
Glinda said:
No, we don't "all have a couple of embarrassing videos or drunken pictures floating around." :roll: That's a really disingenuous argument to use against this kid, Jall, and you're better than that.
Click to expand...

Anyone who went to college in the past 10 years and did anything remotely inappropriate has embarrassing videos or drunken pictures floating around.

This is something that my friends and I joke about all the time. No one from our generation who was even remotely social will ever be able to run for office until all the older people either die off or learn to accept the fact that everything is on camera nowadays. I can't wait until we stop demonizing people for the fact that there are drunken pictures of them - everyone did it, the difference is just that old people didn't have cameras everywhere.
 
CC -
Internalized homophobia? Oh... just another one of your silly unsubstantiated opinions that have no merit. Gotcha.
Click to expand...

Well, in all fairness, this was before I knew he was out.. Just coz it was unsubstantiatied didn't negate the claim when I made it. This is "breaking news", right? We all learn as we go, and since I am the one that "broke" the newer information here on DP, I should deserve some credit, no? Up until that point everyone was speculating, so please get off your high horse..

Tim-
 
Last edited:
Hicup said:
CC -

Well, in all fairness, this was before I knew he was out.. Just coz it was unsubstantiatied didn't negate the claim when I made it. This is "breaking news", right? We all learn as we go, and since I am the one that "broke" the newer information here on DP, I should deserve some credit, no? Up until that point everyone was speculating, so please get off your high horse..

Tim-
Click to expand...

Don't care about your explanation. Your initial assumption had no basis in ANYTHING other than your bias. That doesn't make it breaking news at all.
 
Hicup said:
CC -

Well, in all fairness, this was before I knew he was out.. Just coz it was unsubstantiatied didn't negate the claim when I made it. This is "breaking news", right? We all learn as we go, and since I am the one that "broke" the newer information here on DP, I should deserve some credit, no? Up until that point everyone was speculating, so please get off your high horse..

Tim-
Click to expand...

Actually the higher rate of suicide amongst homosexuals supports your claim.

One important and carefully conducted study found suicide attempts among homosexuals were six times greater than the average (Remafedi et al. 1998).

Then, more recently, in the Archives of General Psychiatry-- an established and well-respected journal--three papers appeared with extensive accompanying commentary (Fergusson et al. 1999, Herrell et al. 1999, Sandfort et al. 2001, and e.g. Bailey 1999). J. Michael Bailey included a commentary on the above research; Bailey, it should be noted, conducted many of the muchpublicized "gay twin studies" which were used by gay advocates as support for the "born that way" theory. Neil Whitehead, Ph.D.
Bailey said, "These studies contain arguably the best published data on the association between homosexuality and psychopathology, and both converge on the same unhappy conclusion: homosexual people are at substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression, and anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, and nicotine dependence...The strength of the new studies is their degree of control."

Homosexuality and Mental Health Problems

Suicide risk higher among young gay people, a Swiss study finds. - swissinfo
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Don't care about your explanation. Your initial assumption had no basis in ANYTHING other than your bias. That doesn't make it breaking news at all.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see, so people can't have internalized homophobia? It is what homophobia is, afterall. I know that NOW it means something else, but back when the term was coined it meant something quite different. Either way, I don't care that you don't care. It happens to be the truth, regardless of whether you think it is.


Tim-
 
texmaster said:
Actually the higher rate of suicide amongst homosexuals supports your claim.

One important and carefully conducted study found suicide attempts among homosexuals were six times greater than the average (Remafedi et al. 1998).

Then, more recently, in the Archives of General Psychiatry-- an established and well-respected journal--three papers appeared with extensive accompanying commentary (Fergusson et al. 1999, Herrell et al. 1999, Sandfort et al. 2001, and e.g. Bailey 1999). J. Michael Bailey included a commentary on the above research; Bailey, it should be noted, conducted many of the muchpublicized "gay twin studies" which were used by gay advocates as support for the "born that way" theory. Neil Whitehead, Ph.D.
Bailey said, "These studies contain arguably the best published data on the association between homosexuality and psychopathology, and both converge on the same unhappy conclusion: homosexual people are at substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression, and anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, and nicotine dependence...The strength of the new studies is their degree of control."

Homosexuality and Mental Health Problems

Suicide risk higher among young gay people, a Swiss study finds. - swissinfo
Click to expand...

Correlation, not causation. This supports nothing.

Further, the first link is to NARTH... which I reject outright, as NARTH has zero credibility. As for the second link, if you would like to see some possible causation, perhaps you should have posted some of the excerpts:

Pierre Schommer, a member of Pink Cross and organiser of the sexual orientation issues in schools seminar, said that the fact that the suicide risk was higher among homosexual youths was worrying.

"It's because they are bullied, discriminated against, and because they are not accepted and don't find a way of life for their homosexuality in society," he said.

Often harassment and violence takes place at schools, which in Switzerland are often attended until the age of 20. Adolescents often react badly to someone they perceive as not behaving "normally" or like a "typical" man or woman, Schommer explained.
Click to expand...

Revealing their sexual orientation can be a difficult experience for some young people, with a rejection by relatives or friends leading to isolation and loneliness.

"These kinds of negative experiences are those which can end in a low self-esteem, stress, mood problems, drug abuse or suicide," Leu said.
Click to expand...

So, again, not only have you shown no causation, but you have shown that the connection may be social pressures and attitudes towards homosexuality. Thank you for refuting your own post.
 
Last edited:
Hicup said:
Ah, I see, so people can't have internalized homophobia? It is what homophobia is, afterall. I know that NOW it means something else, but back when the term was coined it meant something quite different. Either way, I don't care that you don't care. It happens to be the truth, regardless of whether you think it is.


Tim-
Click to expand...

Didn't say that people could not have it. What I said is that you made an assumption based on YOUR bias without any evidence or information that substantiated it. And that's what made it irrelevant, as I said. It really is just that simple.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom