Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

soccerboy22 said:

Only one poster brought it up. He hardly represents right-wingers.

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One says it, many think it.

Of course, if you weren't some sort of sympathizer, I doubt you'd even look to defend them.

Patria Antiqua said:

One says it, many think it.

Of course, if you weren't some sort of sympathizer, I doubt you'd even look to defend them.

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Same can be said about what people on the left say as well.

And I am not any type of sympathizer. Fact of the matter is I disagree with him 100%. In fact I found what he said to be very insulting considering my best friend committed suicide. That doesn't mean that I won't defend more of the reasonable people who lean right that posted in this thread.

Patria Antiqua said:

One says it, many think it.

Of course, if you weren't some sort of sympathizer, I doubt you'd even look to defend them.

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Right-handed guy: "We should jail all left-handed people"
Leftie: "That might be dumb, but you have the right to say it. Moreover, I'm not going to be stupid and attribute your opinions to all right-handed people."

Does that mean that the leftie is a "leftie-hater sympathizer," or just that he's a reasonable person?

Patria Antiqua said:

The sort of creepy things right-wingers say about Darwinism make me wonder if they really are Nazis in disguise.

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*To the Tune of the Transformers theme song*
Right-wingers: NAZIS IN DISGUISE!

Frozengale said:

*To the Tune of the Transformers theme song*
Right-wingers: NAZIS IN DISGUISE!

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lol'd

RightinNYC said:

Right-handed guy: "We should jail all left-handed people"
Leftie: "That might be dumb, but you have the right to say it. Moreover, I'm not going to be stupid and attribute your opinions to all right-handed people."

Does that mean that the leftie is a "leftie-hater sympathizer," or just that he's a reasonable person?

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It means he's sort of a ****. I don't bother to stick up for cruel and nasty people, and I don't respect those who do.

Patria Antiqua said:

It means he's sort of a ****. I don't bother to stick up for cruel and nasty people, and I don't respect those who do.

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No one has yet to stand up for what Apdst posted. What I stood up for was you generalizing about decent people who lean right just because Apdst said something.

soccerboy22 said:

No one has yet to stand up for what Apdst posted. What I stood up for was you generalizing about decent people who lean right just because Apdst said something.

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It's the same thing as far as I'm concerned. He has no sympathy for suicides, I have no sympathy for him or his political category.

That thing you said about sticking up for his right to speak especially irks me. It isn't worth the carbon footprint for me to exhale "hey, he has the right to say that," especially when nobody contested his free speech.

This is sort of moot anyway, because I didn't say that his view represented the entire right wing, I said that what right-wingers say about Darwinism causes me to suspect them of Nazism. It's not like I haven't heard this sort of ignorant drivel before. Of course, there are some conservatives who don't have a Hitleresque view of evolution, but I find that they are generally few and far between.

Hey, we have the right to burn the holy books of other religions.... dont mess with us we can do what we want.
What are you gonna do, try and KILL us over it?

Patria Antiqua said:

It's the same thing as far as I'm concerned. He has no sympathy for suicides, I have no sympathy for him or his political category.

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Agreed.

That thing you said about sticking up for his right to speak especially irks me. It isn't worth the carbon footprint for me to exhale "hey, he has the right to say that," especially when nobody contested his free speech.

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OK you misunderstood me. I wasn't sticking up for him, I was saying he doesn't represented the right wing and there have been those here who have stated the opposite.

soccerboy22 said:

No one has yet to stand up for what Apdst posted. What I stood up for was you generalizing about decent people who lean right just because Apdst said something.

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I'll defend him to a point. I wouldn't go so far as to say I don't have sympathy for them, but after someone commits suicide I just see them as a waste of time. I can sympathize and even empathize with them. Depression runs in my family, currently half of my immediate family is on meds for it right now and I have bouts of depression and have often been so depressed that suicide started seeming like a legitimate answer. But in my eyes if you take that final leap and do the deed then you just wasted your life and you wasted a little bit of everyone else's life that was connected to you, cause now everyone has to pick up your broken pieces basically. So in that respect I don't have sympathy for them.

I was hoping not see this story end up on this forum. I had contact with this individual on another forum before he committed suicide. I was blown away when I read the story in the news and returned to the forum to corroborate that it was the same individual. Since then, his thread has been closed and the site owner was informed so he could report the thread's contents to the police.

apdst said:

I have zero sympathy for anyone that takes their own life. Suicide is the most selfish and weak minded reaction there is.

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There is nothing selfish about the inability to cope with suffering. Human beings are not machines and sometimes we reach a point where our pain, whether it is physical or emotional, makes life seem meaningless. I imagine you would not fault someone who was terminally ill and who had suffered months of agonizing pain for committing suicide but you are ready to quickly call someone weak and selfish if they can't cope with their emotional pain. If you ever end up in either position, you may have a greater sympathy and compassion for the human condition.

I have been there... coming to terms with one's own sexuality and then trying to seek a safe place and person to express it with can be incredibly stressful and an emotional rollercoaster. It's hard enough going to college, being away from your family for the first time, and trying to form connections as a straight person; but when haters come along and bait you into a prank that can ruin your life and you lack the life skills or experience to know that it really sucks but it's not the end of the world, I can see how some young gays would easily be pushed over the edge.

In my case, I was lucky to find compassionate and safe peers in the sea of uncaring, hateful assholes and anchor myself to them with trust. This guy was not so lucky. I have nothing but utter contempt for those that did this. I wish I could have been there when the guy was wanting to die, and just took him away from that situation; I also wish I could have violently subdued the homophobic assholes who did this and thought it was a good idea.

The very least they deserve is a criminal record that will ruin their functional working lives and education, but I wish more were possible.

OscarB63 said:

I knew a kid in college that was pretty much an asswipe. party crasher who would show up and get drunk off your alcohol and never chip in kinda guy. He passed out in a chair at this one party and while he was out, a couple of the guys whipped out their junk and laid it on his cheeks and another guy took a picture. turned it into a flyer and posted it all over campus. so, yes, pranks like this do happen, more often than you would like to believe

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yeah there was guy in my law school who was a gay basher. NOt a malicious one -he was just a good Irish Catholic Boy who thought Homosexuality was a sin. Well one night a bunch of us were partying late and this guy called and said his car had broken down and could we give him a lift from town back to campus. So the guy who answered the phone (it was 2 AM) asked where he was and he mentioned it was the local "gay bar" (the only place open late enough for him to find a phone in the town). so we got into a car and one guy grabbed a camera and told "Dave" that we would honk when we got there. When we did he came out and "tom" took the picture. A couple days later, on the bulletin board at school there was this picture of "Dave" coming out of the gay bar with the caption "DAVE COMES OUT OF THE CLOSET.

He actually thought it was funny but we knew this guy well enough to know it wasn't going to cause him any issues. Now we had a couple guys that were in the closet and we'd never do something to one of them

BCR said:

Well unfortunately we still have Republicans in the U.S.A. today which means being a homosexual is a terrible thing to half the country.

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This may shock you but some conservative types work in the crisis/suicide intervention field and respond to calls daily (and yes...calls from suicidal people that happen to be homosexual) and often put their lives on the line in incredbly stressful and even very dangerous situations trying to help those people...and their sexuality doesnt matter even a little bit.

Not sure which respondent here is the most repugnant...those that have no empathy for the individual (and I'm guessing there may have been greater stresses on the young man than this incident) or this one...but...hey...at least you are in the running...

apdst said:

This kid was weak. Natural selection removed him from the gene pool. If he hadn't offed himself over this deal, he would have come up with another reason to off himself. Is that what you mean? Turning irrational behavior into rational thought?

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The kid MAY have had a fair amount of other issues to deal with. You might be amazed at 'the last straw' for some people...people that have been through extraordinary painful events only to finally lose it by something relatively minor. Soldiers are not immune...Ive worked with individuals that survived multiple deployments to combat environments and then suffered a complete break when a pet died.

CriticalThought said:

There is nothing selfish about the inability to cope with suffering. Human beings are not machines and sometimes we reach a point where our pain, whether it is physical or emotional, makes life seem meaningless. I imagine you would not fault someone who was terminally ill and who had suffered months of agonizing pain for committing suicide but you are ready to quickly call someone weak and selfish if they can't cope with their emotional pain. If you ever end up in either position, you may have a greater sympathy and compassion for the human condition.

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There's a huge difference between not being able to cope with suffering, shrinking in a corner, rocking to-n-fro, crying and offing one's self.

I've had plenty of emotional pain in my life. I was a shy kid that was subjected to public humiliation as a teenager; until I decided to put my fist through a dude's face, one day. That was the first epiphany of my life and certainly not my last.

Yeah, life sucks ass, it's hard, sometimes we feel like giving up; but the one thing that we're all born with, is the natural instinct to survive. Those who aren't born with that instinct, or whom that instinct isn't strong enough, are naturally selected to be deleted from the species. You do believe in Darwinism, natural selection and evolution. Right?

VanceMack said:

The kid MAY have had a fair amount of other issues to deal with. You might be amazed at 'the last straw' for some people...people that have been through extraordinary painful events only to finally lose it by something relatively minor. Soldiers are not immune...Ive worked with individuals that survived multiple deployments to combat environments and then suffered a complete break when a pet died.

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oh yeah, I know all about that, "last straw". It's why, when I was a shy little 9th grader, who was the target of plenty of humiliation, got pissed the **** off and kicked the dog **** out of a dude half again my size in my English I class back in 1984.

Ya see, had this been me; instead of offing myself and you all starting a thread about me offing myself, the thread title would have read: College Freshman Kicks the Ever-Living-**** out of two college class mates because they posted a video of him having sex, on Youtube.

Why couldn't he go to his parents? If one of my kids came to me with something like this and said, "dad! Look what they did to me!", I would be ****ing these two kids up.

Aunt Spiker said:

People's reactions make no sense.

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It is the reactions that display nothing but cold contempt served up without even the tiniest shred of human decency that make no sense.

Gardener said:

It is the reactions that display nothing but cold contempt served up without even the tiniest shred of human decency that make no sense.

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What about the feeling of this cat's loved ones? Did he think about their feelings? Or, did he just take his own **** into consideration? That's why I say that suicide is a selfish act.

apdst said:

oh yeah, I know all about that, "last straw". It's why, when I was a shy little 9th grader, who was the target of plenty of humiliation, got pissed the **** off and kicked the dog **** out of a dude half again my size in my English I class back in 1984.

Ya see, had this been me; instead of offing myself and you all starting a thread about me offing myself, the thread title would have read: College Freshman Kicks the Ever-Living-**** out of two college class mates because they posted a video of him having sex, on Youtube.

Why couldn't he go to his parents? If one of my kids came to me with something like this and said, "dad! Look what they did to me!", I would be ****ing these two kids up.

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Maybe his parents are jerks-off who tell him he's being picked on because he's weak and supposedly that is just Darwinism at work.

apdst said:

I've had plenty of emotional pain in my life. I was a shy kid that was subjected to public humiliation as a teenager; until I decided to put my fist through a dude's face, one day. That was the first epiphany of my life and certainly not my last.

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Then you weren't clinically depressed or suicidal. I appreciate that you made it through suffering and feel stronger now, but don't presume that that same definition of survival and strength applies to all people. Some people break. Even in the developed world, the suicide rate is high. I believe in the U.S. it is the #5 cause of death.

apdst said:

Yeah, life sucks ass, it's hard, sometimes we feel like giving up; but the one thing that we're all born with, is the natural instinct to survive. Those who aren't born with that instinct, or whom that instinct isn't strong enough, are naturally selected to be deleted from the species. You do believe in Darwinism, natural selection and evolution. Right?

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That's probably true, but the fact that you boil suicide down to darwinism shows that you don't know very much about the factors involved. We can talk about darwinism because the result is known; the kid is dead, and he is therefore removed from natural selection. I don't see how that's relevant to the factors that caused him to die, including incredibly cruel behaviour on the part of the others, lack of community support, or lack of societal acceptance of gays causing shame and ostracization (I know that's a big word for you, it means: being outcasted).

You wouldn't be here if your ancestors did not have communities to support them. The issue of suicide is not just chalked up to which individuals have what it takes to survive, but also who has a stable community of support. Any human being who is removed from human support for a long time slips into depression and health problems. Most hermits and isolationists are mental cases. Gays typically have a higher suicide rate than straight people because they lack societal acceptance, safe forums of expression, and they face hate and violence. Even living in the most liberal part of Canada, I am still subjected to homophobia.

No man is an island, and not all men breed... but that doesn't mean men aren't worthy of protection, respect, and compassion.

apdst said:

There's a huge difference between not being able to cope with suffering, shrinking in a corner, rocking to-n-fro, crying and offing one's self.

I've had plenty of emotional pain in my life. I was a shy kid that was subjected to public humiliation as a teenager; until I decided to put my fist through a dude's face, one day. That was the first epiphany of my life and certainly not my last.

Yeah, life sucks ass, it's hard, sometimes we feel like giving up; but the one thing that we're all born with, is the natural instinct to survive. Those who aren't born with that instinct, or whom that instinct isn't strong enough, are naturally selected to be deleted from the species. You do believe in Darwinism, natural selection and evolution. Right?

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I believe people can become emotional. I believe the emotions that can cause one person to hit another are the same emotions than can cause someone to jump off a bridge. I believe that if you had killed that person you hit, then you might feel very differently about it in retrospect. I believe that people are accountable for the choices they make.

I do not believe that anyone has the right to dehumanize someone to the terms of natural selection. I do not believe that using the same Social Darwinism of the Nazis is appropriate when discussing the death of an 18 year old man. I do not believe you are superior because you chose to hurt someone else in your distress instead of hurting yourself.

Frozengale said:

*To the Tune of the Transformers theme song*
Right-wingers: NAZIS IN DISGUISE!

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... :2rofll:

Haha. One can just imagine them "transforming"; swastikas popping out everywhere, their glasses somehow folding up and turning into a little Hitler mustache.
Too funny. :lamo

apdst said:

oh yeah, I know all about that, "last straw". It's why, when I was a shy little 9th grader, who was the target of plenty of humiliation, got pissed the **** off and kicked the dog **** out of a dude half again my size in my English I class back in 1984.

Ya see, had this been me; instead of offing myself and you all starting a thread about me offing myself, the thread title would have read: College Freshman Kicks the Ever-Living-**** out of two college class mates because they posted a video of him having sex, on Youtube.

Why couldn't he go to his parents? If one of my kids came to me with something like this and said, "dad! Look what they did to me!", I would be ****ing these two kids up.

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But surely you are intelligent enough to get that not all people handle lifes stresses the same way. That doesnt make them pathetic, or weak...it makes them human.