• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

House Votes to Impose Tariffs on Chinese Goods

Harry Guerrilla said:
Actually this could cost me my job, sales are already soft and even though I make stuff in America, we import our steel from China.

We just had a price increase, adding another could obliterate what work we did have.
Click to expand...

Don't we have steel in the US? So what about the steel workers in the US who have lost their jobs?
 
Last edited:
jamesrage said:
Don't we have steel in the US? So what about the steel workers in the US who have lost their jobs?
Click to expand...

Whose job is more important?
My job, which I'm already employed or a potential job as a steel maker?

Steel made in the U.S. is of higher quality, unnecessary for the applications, that my company needs.
Why should they be forced to waste money for something they don't need?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Whose job is more important?
My job, which I'm already employed or a potential job as a steel maker?

Steel made in the U.S. is of higher quality, unnecessary for the applications, that my company needs.
Why should they be forced to waste money for something they don't need?
Click to expand...
You must think of the good of the collective, comrade! :prof
 
Coronado said:
You must think of the good of the collective, comrade! :prof
Click to expand...

ussr.gif

For the people! :2razz:
 
Coronado said:
You must think of the good of the collective, comrade! :prof
Click to expand...

Well if you'd listen to some of the conservatives around here, you might think literally nothing is more important than an American job. What? You can't write a law banning the dumping of deadly chemicals directly into the school lunchroom at the local high school, the extra expense of waste disposal will cost jobs!
 
Deuce said:
Well if you'd listen to some of the conservatives around here, you might think literally nothing is more important than an American job. What? You can't write a law banning the dumping of deadly chemicals directly into the school lunchroom at the local high school, the extra expense of waste disposal will cost jobs!
Click to expand...
That's why I don't listen to some of the conservatives around here. I don't know what is so magic about stuff that is made in the US. I'm not sure there even is such a thing any more.
 
Just because they can impose tariffs doesn't mean that the tide is turning. China is still the source of our wealth because it gives us more room for profitable markup, so the government is not going to impose too many obstacles to that. It could be a good step toward restoring domestic manufacturing though, if done correctly, and if the desire is there. I'm not sure if the service based model we are gradually shifting toward is really to our long term benefit.
 
Deuce said:
Well if you'd listen to some of the conservatives around here, you might think literally nothing is more important than an American job. What? You can't write a law banning the dumping of deadly chemicals directly into the school lunchroom at the local high school, the extra expense of waste disposal will cost jobs!
Click to expand...

Pretty much. But they don't seem to have a general problem with job-killing cuts. What happens when you lay off lots of middle class high MPS government workers? They cut their spending. Amusingly, some of the GOP are attacking Obama for actually moving towards market principles. Vitter came out against Obama's plan for the free market to run the space transportation part of NASA rather then the government do it. He said it would cost lots of jobs. Amusingly how they change their tone when it is their district on the line. Obama can't cut! It will cost my district jobs!
 
jamesrage said:
If the tariffs are high enough it will encourage manufacturers to move to the US thus creating more jobs. Are trying to argue that no one made anything in the US before companies found it easy to outsource left and right to china, India and other countries? Are you trying to say that we always imported **** from China in huge quantities?

If there are very few jobs and many Americans on are welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing and so on then the last thing Americans need to be doing is spending money on luxuries and other non-essential goods.
Click to expand...

The economic damage done by any raises in the cost of any good and services would have an almost instant effect in the economy and any increase in or new manufacturing would much slower in coming.

Also we are members of the WTO which is opposed to any Tariff increases and they also have issues anytime we and some others try to show preferences to our manufacturing companies.

We have got to reduce the wild and crazy spending of money we don't have one programs that don't work and cut taxes for those who do 90% of the hiring and start all new businesses and expand others.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Whose job is more important?
My job, which I'm already employed or a potential job as a steel maker?
Click to expand...

Employing Chinese workers or employing American workers just so your company can have steel? I think I will choose American workers.

Steel made in the U.S. is of higher quality, unnecessary for the applications, that my company needs.
Click to expand...

You are telling me that your company can not buy recycled steel or add another metal to it in order to stretch it out or make it a lesser quality of steel?
 
Not like this will ever get past the Senate. Is it not De Mint that has an automatic hold on everything proposed?
 
I support the application of pressure on the Chinese government, but I think it will have little effect. The increase of rates of wages in China over time will do more to even the playing field than tariffs. Also, China will never allow US agro products until subsidies end, this is another area of contention between the two governments.
 
obvious Child said:
Pretty much. But they don't seem to have a general problem with job-killing cuts. What happens when you lay off lots of middle class high MPS government workers? They cut their spending. Amusingly, some of the GOP are attacking Obama for actually moving towards market principles. Vitter came out against Obama's plan for the free market to run the space transportation part of NASA rather then the government do it. He said it would cost lots of jobs. Amusingly how they change their tone when it is their district on the line. Obama can't cut! It will cost my district jobs!
Click to expand...


Well, taken literally, shifting the burden of what NASA, does is technically unconstitutional. Last time I checked, foreign affairs was handled by the US Federal Government, particularly the executive branch. :)


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Well, taken literally, shifting the burden of what NASA, does is technically unconstitutional. Last time I checked, foreign affairs was handled by the US Federal Government, particularly the executive branch. :)


Tim-
Click to expand...

Actually, all foreign treaties are purview of the Senate. However for decades the Senate has gave the President "fast-track" powers in order to pass the buck and skirt any responsibility for free-trade agreements with constituents.
 
tlmorg02 said:
Actually, all foreign treaties are purview of the Senate. However for decades the Senate has gave the President "fast-track" powers in order to pass the buck and skirt any responsibility for free-trade agreements with constituents.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, but I was trying to be funny.. :)

Tim-
 
jamesrage said:
Employing Chinese workers or employing American workers just so your company can have steel? I think I will choose American workers.
Click to expand...

So you're telling me that it makes sense to, take a job away from one person (probably will be more than that), just so another can have it because they use Chinese made materials for some of their operation?

That sounds crazy counter productive.

jamesrage said:
You are telling me that your company can not buy recycled steel or add another metal to it in order to stretch it out or make it a lesser quality of steel?
Click to expand...

My company sells it's scrap steel, what happens to it after that is any ones guess.
The point is that the Chinese make cheaper steel which makes it possible for us to sell our good at a lower price.
It could happen that if we used American produced steel, that no one will want what we sell or that production will be cut down because of costs.

I saw a story that kinda pushes some of my point.
I did some extra research on it too, for comparison.

These union turds decided that, instead of taking a pay cut which represents the market norm, they would rather have their production facility close.
Now I do something very similar to them, metal fabrication but I do not make anywhere close to $29 an hour, even though the cost of living where they are is less, than here.

These types are part of the problem and we'll have to pay even higher prices for stuff simply to keep these turds employed.

Union rejects concessions at GM plant in Indianapolis | detnews.com | The Detroit News
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
So you're telling me that it makes sense to, take a job away from one person (probably will be more than that), just so another can have it because they use Chinese made materials for some of their operation?

That sounds crazy counter productive.



My company sells it's scrap steel, what happens to it after that is any ones guess.
The point is that the Chinese make cheaper steel which makes it possible for us to sell our good at a lower price.
It could happen that if we used American produced steel, that no one will want what we sell or that production will be cut down because of costs.

I saw a story that kinda pushes some of my point.
I did some extra research on it too, for comparison.

These union turds decided that, instead of taking a pay cut which represents the market norm, they would rather have their production facility close.
Now I do something very similar to them, metal fabrication but I do not make anywhere close to $29 an hour, even though the cost of living where they are is less, than here.

These types are part of the problem and we'll have to pay even higher prices for stuff simply to keep these turds employed.

Union rejects concessions at GM plant in Indianapolis | detnews.com | The Detroit News
Click to expand...

Yes, of course we'll have to pay higher prices. There is added complexity. America has a lot of labor and environmental laws. You have to pay for that. Why do you think stuff from China is so cheap? They ain't got that regulation. But if you're worried about fair wages or the environment, you'd never buy anything from China. You'd take the cost increase and support places and governments which have and enforce labor and environmental laws. It costs money, and it's not something you can get from China.
 
drz-400 said:
Hopefully this is just a strategic move, to try and get china to stop manipulating their currency. Otherwise this is a very bad idea.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what the situation is here. I came across two articles on this yesterday from Al Jazeera.net:

U.S. House passes China yuan bill

"China's persistent manipulation of its currency contributes to the outsourcing of American jobs and poses a very serious problem that requires real action," said Sander Levin, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
Click to expand...

And...

US cautioned over China trade bill

The bill, passed by 348 to 79 on Wednesday, allows the US commerce department to treat "fundamentally undervalued currencies" as an illegal export subsidy so that US companies can request a countervailing duty to offset China's price advantage.
Click to expand...

My overriding concern is we'd better be careful in how we deal with China since they are the ones who have purchased the highest volume of our Treasure Bills since the economic crisis began. If we're not careful, we could see some blowback from this move.



jamesrage said:
If the tariffs are high enough it will encourage manufacturers to move to the US thus creating more jobs. Are trying to argue that no one made anything in the US before companies found it easy to outsource left and right to china, India and other countries? Are you trying to say that we always imported **** from China in huge quantities?



If there are very few jobs and many Americans on are welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing and so on then the last thing Americans need to be doing is spending money on luxuries and other non-essential goods.
Click to expand...

Jetboogieman said:
It'd have to be one hell of a tariff. And don't forget... there's Vietnam, Malaysia, Central America.

I think there's something we need to get a grasp of. Manufacturing, is no longer a viable western country job. More and more, except in highly skilled, specialized manufacturing, that requires highly advanced machinery and the highly qualified people to operate it, manufacturing simply is no longer a viable industry in 1st world countries anymore.
Click to expand...

rathi said:
China should be pressured to stop currency manipulation, but blanket tariffs are a bad idea. Hopefully, this gives Obama better leverage when negotiating, but isn't actually ever used. Trade sanctions often resemble nukes in this fashion.
Click to expand...

Councilman said:
Wonderful, what a truly bad idea at this time to raise prices for consumers when we are in the worst recession in resent memory. {Referring to the cost of tarrifs being passed on to U.S. consumers} Good job dumb asses.

What's next this is realy a stupid move. When there are very few jobs and more people on food stamps then any time in History is no time to punish consumers with higher priced products and claim you're doing something good.
Click to expand...

I can see both to this issue, but unlike what occurred after the Depression where impossing new tariffs across the board on most if not all foriegn imports, I think the issue here is China's manipulation of its currency in an effort to purposely gain a higher margin in the global marketplace ahead of the U.S. dollar. Still, we have to be careful in how we handle this. China still owns alot of our debt, and if we're not careful we could certainly make our economic problems worse. Still, if such a move enables U.S. manufacturing jobs to return to the U.S., I see that as a very good thing considering foreign imports have far exceeded U.S. exports since 1977. We've made money in the global economy not by the manufacturing of goods in America, but by hedging our bets on investments. And as we've come to learn that's not always a good thing.

obvious Child said:
Knowing how dumb some people here are, they won't get it. I can explain how to actually get the Yuan to rise and get Beijing to stop monkeying around, but it's a bit complex. But I'll say this, Beijing would love to stop manipulating its currency.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in hearing your point of view on the matter. Drop me a PM if you please.
 
Last edited:
Ikari said:
Yes, of course we'll have to pay higher prices. There is added complexity. America has a lot of labor and environmental laws. You have to pay for that. Why do you think stuff from China is so cheap? They ain't got that regulation. But if you're worried about fair wages or the environment, you'd never buy anything from China. You'd take the cost increase and support places and governments which have and enforce labor and environmental laws. It costs money, and it's not something you can get from China.
Click to expand...

Most of savings comes from the lower cost of living in China.

Let's pretend for a moment that we really jack up the tariffs coming in from China.
Then they block all U.S. imports to their country, we'd be royally ****ed.
 
Ikari said:
Yes, of course we'll have to pay higher prices. There is added complexity. America has a lot of labor and environmental laws. You have to pay for that. Why do you think stuff from China is so cheap? They ain't got that regulation. But if you're worried about fair wages or the environment, you'd never buy anything from China. You'd take the cost increase and support places and governments which have and enforce labor and environmental laws. It costs money, and it's not something you can get from China.
Click to expand...

Amazing how these little details are often ignored. China doesn't pay their workers decent wages, nor does china have to worry about environmental laws. If there is any truth to this website its amazing the US actually has any manufacturing companies left.

Nike production facts
Chinese workers make $1.75 a day
There is no minimum wage in China and when abuses are discovered, the whole factory disappears. "The supervisors will get nervous and move the work to another province. It's impossible to monitor factory conditions," says Asia Monitor Resource Center in Hong Kong.
 
I think all of these things will eventually become mute. As the cost of production increases in these outsourced nations, it will become more expensive than it is worth to ship products around the world. I forsee a time when every nation will be best served by producing goods that their nation consumes in their own country. This will be true in China as well as India, as each nation has an ever rising consumer base.
 
Phantom said:
Full Report: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/business/30currency.html
Click to expand...
I think this bill is more about sending a message to China to start floating their currency than it is to actually raise tariffs on Chinese goods. Yes, the tariff bill passed in the house but the Senate won't vote on it until after the mid term election and even then it might not make it to the house floor because apparently there is a riff between some of the committees over whose jurisdiction this would fall under. And even if it did pass the Senate, there is an even stronger chance that Obama won't sign it.

Our biggest imports from China are electronic goods. Apple's new Iphone was never assembled here in the US so to say a tariff would bring those jobs to the US is highly unlikely. Instead, Apple would just find another cheap source of labor somewhere else. But raising tariffs would have the effect of raising prices on electronic goods for US consumers and in turn they would probably not buy as many electronic goods as they have in the past and that would hurt US retail stores and businesses that depend on and/or sell Chinese goods.

But since we have been borrowing to buy Chinese goods which has created a huge trade deficit, lowering our consumption of Chinese goods would have the effect of lowering the deficit as well. But all this would do nothing to bring jobs to the US and would probably only hurt the economy. Which is why I think this bill is more about sending a message to China and why I don't think Obama will actually sign the tariff bill into law.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom