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Census finds record gap between rich and poor

RightinNYC said:
I went to a rural public school and did quite alright for myself education-wise.

That being said, my kids will be going to Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, or private school.
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I failed miserably in the public school system but that had nothing to do with the school and everything to do with my effort at the time. The same school that passed the likes of me then also graduated hundreds of highly qualified students. Later because of a requirement to work full and part time jobs I went to several non traditionally universities to achieve undergraduate and graduate degrees. Many of the more exclusive brick and mortar universities will look down their nose at a non-trad degree, but the reality is that in MOST instances where you got your degree isnt nearly as important as THAT you have your degree and are qualified to sit for the appropriate tests, boards, and/or panels. I have several individuals that work for me that have masters degrees from the state university. My doctorate from a nontraditional university still trumps them. I have done contract work with several hospitals and city government agencies...again...all that matters is if you can fill the squares and demonstrate an ability to do the job.

Point being...kids excell at public schools as well as private schools. Kids fail at private schools as well or are often graduated regardless of academic ability. What really matters is the internal motivation of the individual augmented by parent/authority figure involvement and support.
 
TurtleDude said:
Interesting libertarian thought-wanting more government regulation

interesting indeed
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Not more. . . less. Its WHO is doing it. Would you give the fox the keys to the hen house.
 
ender1 said:
Not more. . . less. Its WHO is doing it. Would you give the fox the keys to the hen house.
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I see corporations as a lot less dangerous than governments
 
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TurtleDude said:
I see corporations as a lot less dangerous than governments
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I dont. The government is there only to serve the people. A business only exists to make money. Our government may fail at times, maybe often but I do beleive its an evil we have to live with. It just needs to be small and not get involved with morals.

No other comments on my ideas?
 
ender1 said:
I dont. The government is there only to serve the people. A business only exists to make money. Our government may fail at times, maybe often but I do beleive its an evil we have to live with. It just needs to be small and not get involved with morals.

No other comments on my ideas?
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Right. The government is intended to govern and when people get elected they truly want to start governing, that is telling us mortals what to do, when to do it, and establishing all sorts of unnecessary new laws, programs, and so on.

Once people get power they become convinced that they are wiser and smarter than everyone else and will go wherever their whims take them. BHO is an excellent example. No matter what the people say, and no matter what history should teach him, he knows best. Luckily the president has term limits. That should be the case with all politicians everywhere.
 
ender1 said:
I dont. The government is there only to serve the people. A business only exists to make money. Our government may fail at times, maybe often but I do beleive its an evil we have to live with. It just needs to be small and not get involved with morals.

No other comments on my ideas?
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I have a couple, Ender1.

It is a myth that government is there to serve the people. That might have been the idea and intent at one time but that is no longer true.

You exist in order to support and pay for the governments and its bureaucrats, and the government exists in order to assure this system continues. As a result of their voracious appetites, they have turned the people on each other in order to make them even more powerful. Now they will go after "the rich", as just one example, and when the rich are broke, or flee the United States, they'll come after you. But they'll not go hungry because they can print more money. You can't. They will always become bigger and more powerful and as a result you will become weaker and weaker. Your individuality and Independence will be lost forever.

Everyone works for the government now on varying levels and if you don't pay them their take you'll go to jail rather than showing up dead in a vacant lot. But the lesson is, you are serving them, they are not serving you. In fact the idea that they serve the people, though campaign promises always suggest that, has become ludicrous.
 
TurtleDude said:
this oozes Bull poop. The rich (however you describe them) pay far far more than they use and contrary to the steaming pile of dung that is thrown around here, most of the rich got that way not by stealing stuff, not by ripping off people, but by doing the right things and making themselves valuable and thus having stock in trade
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I am one who did things right, and some are jealous of that, like your buddy apdst. I did it without whining about taxes all day long. Taxes are the dues you pay for living here. If you don't like the dues here, check out the dues in other countries and you might get a more informed idea of how great the USA is.
I have been reading the WSJ and financial magazines since about 1980. That is where you find out how the super rich manipulate the market, and the middle class. Some of the magazines applaud the super rich when they take over companies, rape the retirement funds, then part out the business, selling off jobs, in effect. They were putting people on the streets without golden parachutes before you drew your first pay check.
If you don't watch out for yourself, you can end up having to work into your old age.
 
Grant said:
Right. The government is intended to govern and when people get elected they truly want to start governing, that is telling us mortals what to do, when to do it, and establishing all sorts of unnecessary new laws, programs, and so on.

Once people get power they become convinced that they are wiser and smarter than everyone else and will go wherever their whims take them. BHO is an excellent example. No matter what the people say, and no matter what history should teach him, he knows best. Luckily the president has term limits. That should be the case with all politicians everywhere.
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I agree that the government has acted badly. It needs to be corrected and the only way to do that is to vote out the republicans and democrats.

I also agree in term limits.

I disagree with your President Obama comment. I do 100% beleive he has good intentions. But we all know where those lead.
 
Grant said:
I have a couple, Ender1.

It is a myth that government is there to serve the people. That might have been the idea and intent at one time but that is no longer true.

You exist in order to support and pay for the governments and its bureaucrats, and the government exists in order to assure this system continues. As a result of their voracious appetites, they have turned the people on each other in order to make them even more powerful. Now they will go after "the rich", as just one example, and when the rich are broke, or flee the United States, they'll come after you. But they'll not go hungry because they can print more money. You can't. They will always become bigger and more powerful and as a result you will become weaker and weaker. Your individuality and Independence will be lost forever.

Everyone works for the government now on varying levels and if you don't pay them their take you'll go to jail rather than showing up dead in a vacant lot. But the lesson is, you are serving them, they are not serving you. In fact the idea that they serve the people, though campaign promises always suggest that, has become ludicrous.
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I have read the constitution several times. Serving the people is the purpose of government. I also believe that the government has become the right arm of big business. That is what has turned people against each other. If you are wealthy and leave the country just because you want to keep it your a coward.

If I start thinking about our freedoms I want to cry. President Bush single handed took away 2 or three of my freedoms. President Obama only voted to take away one.

I agree with the government not serving me. So why do so many people vote democrat and republican. We do have the power and a peaceful system in place to support it.
 
ender1 said:
I dont. The government is there only to serve the people. A business only exists to make money. Our government may fail at times, maybe often but I do beleive its an evil we have to live with. It just needs to be small and not get involved with morals.

No other comments on my ideas?
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that is rather naive. Government has a monopoly on the power to legally kill you. A corporation you can usually avoid doing business with,
those who are in government certainly don't run with the idea of actually serving people in most cases.
 
UtahBill said:
I am one who did things right, and some are jealous of that, like your buddy apdst. I did it without whining about taxes all day long. Taxes are the dues you pay for living here. If you don't like the dues here, check out the dues in other countries and you might get a more informed idea of how great the USA is.
I have been reading the WSJ and financial magazines since about 1980. That is where you find out how the super rich manipulate the market, and the middle class. Some of the magazines applaud the super rich when they take over companies, rape the retirement funds, then part out the business, selling off jobs, in effect. They were putting people on the streets without golden parachutes before you drew your first pay check.
If you don't watch out for yourself, you can end up having to work into your old age.
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If you want to piss and moan about the uber wealthy-the top 100 or 400 individuals, that is one thing. however, must of your rants paint as nefarious anyone who is in the top tax bracket as needing to be soaked even more. That is idiotic.

someone makeing a few hundred K a year-even a million a year is alot closer to you in lifestyle and income than someone who is worth billions yet you treat the billionaire and a guy making 500K the same

that is stupid
 
TurtleDude said:
If you want to piss and moan about the uber wealthy-the top 100 or 400 individuals, that is one thing. however, must of your rants paint as nefarious anyone who is in the top tax bracket as needing to be soaked even more. That is idiotic.

someone makeing a few hundred K a year-even a million a year is alot closer to you in lifestyle and income than someone who is worth billions yet you treat the billionaire and a guy making 500K the same

that is stupid
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Pissing and moaning, ranting? Sounds more like you....
Here is a challenge for you, spend the next week posting on DP without labeling, name calling, etc.
In addition, you might spend time dwelling on what you have, and consider being grateful for the country that has given you so many opportunities.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let's take it down a notch.
 
UtahBill said:
Pissing and moaning, ranting? Sounds more like you....
Here is a challenge for you, spend the next week posting on DP without labeling, name calling, etc.
In addition, you might spend time dwelling on what you have, and consider being grateful for the country that has given you so many opportunities.
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where do you get off saying the country gives people stuff? that is the source of much of your claims Most of us who have done well have done well because we are smart ambitious and talented-nothing that the government gave us
 
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TurtleDude said:
where do you get off saying the country gives people stuff? that is the source of much of your claims Most of us who have done well have done well because we are smart ambitious and talented-nothing that the government gave us
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The USA gave me an education, for free...well, the taxpayers paid for it, but I gave the Navy over 12 years active duty, 6 more than I was obligated for, then 10 years in the reserves. I got from my childhood home to the Navy via bus and airplane, not at my expense. I lived in a barracks with hot and cold water and electricity. They fed me. There aren't many countries on this planet that afford more opportunities to its people. Nearly all of us have clean water at the taps, reliable gas and electric attached to our homes, and public service employees, like police and firemen, at our service should we need them.
Some people don't know how to be grateful for what they have, they just want more. How much is enough for these people, I wonder? I do NOT envy the rich, as you keep saying, nor to I give blanket sympathy for the poor. I live among many of the rich, and am related to many "poor". Most of the rich I know got that way by means of personal effort, but they also give credit to God and Govt. Most of the poor I know got that way on their own, and admit it.
 
UtahBill said:
The USA gave me an education, for free...well, the taxpayers paid for it, but I gave the Navy over 12 years active duty, 6 more than I was obligated for, then 10 years in the reserves. I got from my childhood home to the Navy via bus and airplane, not at my expense. I lived in a barracks with hot and cold water and electricity. They fed me. There aren't many countries on this planet that afford more opportunities to its people. Nearly all of us have clean water at the taps, reliable gas and electric attached to our homes, and public service employees, like police and firemen, at our service should we need them.
Some people don't know how to be grateful for what they have, they just want more. How much is enough for these people, I wonder? I do NOT envy the rich, as you keep saying, nor to I give blanket sympathy for the poor. I live among many of the rich, and am related to many "poor". Most of the rich I know got that way by means of personal effort, but they also give credit to God and Govt. Most of the poor I know got that way on their own, and admit it.
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the top 1% make 22% of the income and pay 40% of the income taxes and almost all the estate taxes. At what point do you think they have a right to complain as their share of the income tax load increases?

22% of the income-22% of the tax burden-that seems fair even if it means 1% is paying probably 10X what they use then.
 
TurtleDude said:
the top 1% make 22% of the income and pay 40% of the income taxes and almost all the estate taxes. At what point do you think they have a right to complain as their share of the income tax load increases?

22% of the income-22% of the tax burden-that seems fair even if it means 1% is paying probably 10X what they use then.
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So what is the answer? Get yourself elected to public office (dictator) and force the rest of the country to accept your idealism? Doesn't work that way....you do the best you can with the choices given you. Govt of, by, for the people doesn't exist the way we think it should be. Given a choice, everybody would refuse to pay taxes. Then where would we be? Anarchy, revolution? You steer the ship of state just the same as you do a real ship, you make small changes in rudder position to change direction. The rich may complain, the middle class may complain, but the fact remains, we will pay the taxes assessed. Spitting into the wind is not the way to make the wind change direction.
 
UtahBill said:
The USA gave me an education, for free...well, the taxpayers paid for it, but I gave the Navy over 12 years active duty, 6 more than I was obligated for, then 10 years in the reserves. I got from my childhood home to the Navy via bus and airplane, not at my expense. I lived in a barracks with hot and cold water and electricity. They fed me. There aren't many countries on this planet that afford more opportunities to its people. Nearly all of us have clean water at the taps, reliable gas and electric attached to our homes, and public service employees, like police and firemen, at our service should we need them.
Some people don't know how to be grateful for what they have, they just want more. How much is enough for these people, I wonder? I do NOT envy the rich, as you keep saying, nor to I give blanket sympathy for the poor. I live among many of the rich, and am related to many "poor". Most of the rich I know got that way by means of personal effort, but they also give credit to God and Govt. Most of the poor I know got that way on their own, and admit it.
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This is the attitude of many people in the government or who worked in it, especially the armed forces. The USA gave me this and that, etc, when you were a burden on the taxpayer more than a benefit. People like you made it clear your loyalty is not to the people of this nation who paid for your salary, benefits, everything, but to a government who has you convinced they were the ones who provided you everything. It is just scary. I am disappointed and won't be surprised if a armed revolution ever comes that the police and soldiers would open fire without any hesitation. And they would kill everything in their way because the "government" gave them everything. Even though it was the work of hardworking individuals with little social security who gave their all to support their families and people like you in the government and your family.
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
This is the attitude of many people in the government or who worked in it, especially the armed forces. The USA gave me this and that, etc, when you were a burden on the taxpayer more than a benefit. People like you made it clear your loyalty is not to the people of this nation who paid for your salary, benefits, everything, but to a government who has you convinced they were the ones who provided you everything. It is just scary. I am disappointed and won't be surprised if a armed revolution ever comes that the police and soldiers would open fire without any hesitation. And they would kill everything in their way because the "government" gave them everything. Even though it was the work of hardworking individuals with little social security who gave their all to support their families and people like you in the government and your family.
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WOW, you read a lot between the lines, and then you extrapolate between the lines.
I had nothing at 18, now I am well off. There aren't many countries where a nobody can do so well.
I say the govt gave me those things, but I did a lot in return to earn it.
What is YOUR story?
 
UtahBill said:
WOW, you read a lot between the lines, and then you extrapolate between the lines.
I had nothing at 18, now I am well off. There aren't many countries where a nobody can do so well.
I say the govt gave me those things, but I did a lot in return to earn it.
What is YOUR story?
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Congratulations, Utah. BUT!!! The government didn't give you those things. If ANYthing, our form of government gave you the opportunity for success.
 
UtahBill said:
WOW, you read a lot between the lines, and then you extrapolate between the lines.
I had nothing at 18, now I am well off. There aren't many countries where a nobody can do so well.
I say the govt gave me those things, but I did a lot in return to earn it.
What is YOUR story?
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I read what you said and I have to tell you. STILL the government did not give it to you. That is my point. You did it all on your own and in all seriousness an individual like yourself would have gotten to where you are regardless of however long it took you. And it took you a long time! The amount of time it took you it would have been the same as if you had taken a poor paying job and paid your way to college. But that last route would have made you a greater character than the route you took;)
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
I read what you said and I have to tell you. STILL the government did not give it to you. That is my point. You did it all on your own and in all seriousness an individual like yourself would have gotten to where you are regardless of however long it took you. And it took you a long time! The amount of time it took you it would have been the same as if you had taken a poor paying job and paid your way to college. But that last route would have made you a greater character than the route you took;)
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You presume you know my character? Yes, semantics aside, the govt gave me opportunities that I would not have gotten in most other countries, and I took advantage of it.
I was not college material at age 18, due to dysfunctional family. I was 4th of 5 kids, the first 3 bailed at 17, quitting school and getting married or joining the air force. That should give you a clue. Home was not a haven. I got my college after 12 years of Navy, at night, for 8 years, but that was just a bonus, I already had the training needed to be fully employable.
I was offered a path to college, by my grandparents, when I was 16, but my parents said no....and I didn't find out about that til late 20's. Gramps was a captain in the merchant marine, and could have gotten me into one of the maritime colleges. Still, I did well, and you won't find me complaining about what might have been. You will hear me gripe about people too selfish to help their own children get an education. If the youth aren't our future, who the hell is...
 
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UtahBill said:
Still, I did well, and you won't find me complaining about what might have been. You will hear me gripe about people too selfish to help their own children get an education. If the youth aren't our future, who the hell is...
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I will be honest. Bill you are our future.
 
hazlnut said:
Census finds record gap between rich and poor



Even if the release of this was timed, it's still relevant to the midterms and taxes.

Now is not the time to give an additional tax break to the wealthy and super-wealthy.
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Another class-warfare soldat.

Punishing wealth isn't going to create jobs. How about giving all a nice tax break and gutting the fat, bloated, oppressive, intrusive pig called government?

.
 
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