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Census finds record gap between rich and poor

Not sure I follow your math, but I know an increase from 36% to 39% is not nearly double. Nor is it a hardship. It will have little to no effect on anything other than the deficit.

1) you didn't read my post
2) if you are paying 36% rate and it goes to nearly 40% that is a ten percent rate increase in the amount of money taken from each additional dollar
3) if your income is mainly investment income (which is taxed twice) your net taxes will double (at least) because your rate will go from 15cents out of every dollar to almost 40Cents
4) you are not able to say if its a hardship or not-you have no idea what those targeted for the dem tax hikes are spending now.

I know several families that have 3 kids in elite colleges and or grad schools. If their income is 400K a year their net income is often in the 250K range after state local and federal taxes and they are pumping out 150K in tuition. a ten or twenty thousand dollar increase in income taxes is going to be a hardship

are you willing to pay a rate of 39.6%?
 
1) you didn't read my post
2) if you are paying 36% rate and it goes to nearly 40% that is a ten percent rate increase in the amount of money taken from each additional dollar
3) if your income is mainly investment income (which is taxed twice) your net taxes will double (at least) because your rate will go from 15cents out of every dollar to almost 40Cents
4) you are not able to say if its a hardship or not-you have no idea what those targeted for the dem tax hikes are spending now.

I know several families that have 3 kids in elite colleges and or grad schools. If their income is 400K a year their net income is often in the 250K range after state local and federal taxes and they are pumping out 150K in tuition. a ten or twenty thousand dollar increase in income taxes is going to be a hardship

are you willing to pay a rate of 39.6%?

36 from 40 is 4. 36 from 39 is 3. I'm just saying.
 
36 from 40 is 4. 36 from 39 is 3. I'm just saying.

I guess you cannot figure out the difference between a 3% increase in the tax rate versus a 10% increase in the amount of taxes someone pays on each additional dollar.

Let me try this to help you understand

if you pay 36 cents on your next dollar today and 40 cents on that dollar tomorrow how much of an increase is 4 cents? Not 4 percent
 
To live off of investment income alone, just the interest and dividends, means you have to have a LOT of money invested.
Figure a 5% withdrawal rate, that means to have $50K a year, you need a million bucks invested. Taking out 5% a year, and a reasonable long term growth rate of 8%, grandma will never run out of money. And hopefully she does that on her own, instead of buying an annuity, which is a ripoff.
So why should we worry about millionaires living off of dividends and interest?
 
I guess you cannot figure out the difference between a 3% increase in the tax rate versus a 10% increase in the amount of taxes someone pays on each additional dollar.

Let me try this to help you understand

if you pay 36 cents on your next dollar today and 40 cents on that dollar tomorrow how much of an increase is 4 cents? Not 4 percent

You play with numbers almost as if you understand math. Yes, it is about a 10% RATE increase, but it is only a 4% increase in taxes paid.
 
1) you didn't read my post
2) if you are paying 36% rate and it goes to nearly 40% that is a ten percent rate increase in the amount of money taken from each additional dollar
3) if your income is mainly investment income (which is taxed twice) your net taxes will double (at least) because your rate will go from 15cents out of every dollar to almost 40Cents
4) you are not able to say if its a hardship or not-you have no idea what those targeted for the dem tax hikes are spending now.

I know several families that have 3 kids in elite colleges and or grad schools. If their income is 400K a year their net income is often in the 250K range after state local and federal taxes and they are pumping out 150K in tuition. a ten or twenty thousand dollar increase in income taxes is going to be a hardship

are you willing to pay a rate of 39.6%?
So the middle class should subsidize these poor rich folks?
 
again the issue isn't just billionaires and its intellectually dishonest for you to constantly frame the debate in that terms

now, i do defer to your expertise in things intellectually dishonest

but you have failed to recognize that focusing on billionaire$ to describe the high income category who the "fiscally conservative" republicans insist on providing tax breaks to, while paying for it with borrowed money, exposes the stupidity of the current crop of republicans ... and their adherents
 
To live off of investment income alone, just the interest and dividends, means you have to have a LOT of money invested.
Figure a 5% withdrawal rate, that means to have $50K a year, you need a million bucks invested. Taking out 5% a year, and a reasonable long term growth rate of 8%, grandma will never run out of money. And hopefully she does that on her own, instead of buying an annuity, which is a ripoff.
So why should we worry about millionaires living off of dividends and interest?

I don't have much use for your attitude that its ok to keep raising taxes on a small minority just as long as they still have more money than you do

you need to start paying the same tax rate as those you think can handle more and more taxes or you are a hypocrite
 
You play with numbers almost as if you understand math. Yes, it is about a 10% RATE increase, but it is only a 4% increase in taxes paid.

more lies

a 4% increase in the tax rate is not a mere 4% increase in the amount of taxes paid
 
now, i do defer to your expertise in things intellectually dishonest

but you have failed to recognize that focusing on billionaire$ to describe the high income category who the "fiscally conservative" republicans insist on providing tax breaks to, while paying for it with borrowed money, exposes the stupidity of the current crop of republicans ... and their adherents

nice dishonest evasion

why do you want tax cuts for the middle class while whining about fiscal restraint

greed and class envy permeate your posts
 
So the middle class should subsidize these poor rich folks?

more nonsense-the rich subsidize the middle class massively. I just tire of increasing that subsidy
 
I don't have much use for your attitude that its ok to keep raising taxes on a small minority just as long as they still have more money than you do

you need to start paying the same tax rate as those you think can handle more and more taxes or you are a hypocrite

let's look at an example:
... The most egregious example is General Electric. Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion. ...
GE, Exxon Paid No U.S. Income Taxes in 2009 - ABC News

here's another:
... Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that (legally) shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi. No wonder that of $15 billion in income taxes last year, Exxon paid none of it to Uncle Sam, and has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas. ...
[emphasis added by bubba]
 
I own shares in GE-I sure as hell paid taxes on income from them. GE has a major operation 10 miles from my home-all of the employees pay taxes on their pay etc.

but what is your point-this discussion is about jacking up taxes on 2% of the population-a group that already pays almost half the federal income taxes and they certainly do not use anywhere near half of the services paid for by those taxes.
 
I don't have much use for your attitude that its ok to keep raising taxes on a small minority just as long as they still have more money than you do

you need to start paying the same tax rate as those you think can handle more and more taxes or you are a hypocrite


I will pay whatever taxes the govt asks of me, always have. Think of it as dues paid for the priviledge of living in such a nice country, with real opportunities for anyone willing to do their share of the work on the road to success.
Stop your incessant whining, and just pay your taxes.
 
let's look at an example:

GE, Exxon Paid No U.S. Income Taxes in 2009 - ABC News

here's another: [emphasis added by bubba]

The answer can be found in the article you linked.
Those low-tax countries are almost anywhere but the U.S. "When you add in state taxes, the U.S. has the highest tax burden among industrialized countries," says Hodge. In contrast, China's rate is just 25%; Ireland's is 12.5%.
So reworded, The United States' greedy tax policy has driven corporations to other countries. Only a few reasons exist for companies to stay here in the U.S. many of those are going away. Raising, instead of lowering taxes on corporations will only drive them (and any jobs they provide) to other countries quicker.
 
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The answer can be found in the article you linked.

So reworded, The United States' greedy tax policy has driven corporations to other countries. Only a few reasons exist for companies to stay here in the U.S. many of those are going away. Raising, instead of lowering taxes on corporations will only drive them (and any jobs they provide) to other countries quicker.

another instance of comparative advantage
if those corporations choose to undertake their business activities in other countries to avoid the taxes needed to sustain the opportunities in the USA, that is their decision to make
what we actually see is that they exploit the benefits of operating within the USA but use tax dodges to avoid paying their fair share of taxes to sustain our nation's operations
then, the tax burden falls on the middle class ... which subsidizes the operations of the major earners
that needs to change
 
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I guess you cannot figure out the difference between a 3% increase in the tax rate versus a 10% increase in the amount of taxes someone pays on each additional dollar.

Let me try this to help you understand

if you pay 36 cents on your next dollar today and 40 cents on that dollar tomorrow how much of an increase is 4 cents? Not 4 percent

It is a four cent increase on each dollar. No more. The difference between 36% and 39% is 3%.
 
Sounds to me like you're exploiting the system like a mutha'.

I wasn't aware that people could draw SS and retirement pensions. Sounds like bulllllllllllllllllllllllllllll****. That, or you're defrauding the government. Someone probably needs to look into what you're doing.

Ultimately, I see why you support more taxation. So you can make sure your meal ticket keeps coming in.

I also will end up quad dipping while my wife will be double dipping AND enjoying the benefits of a pretty healthy and safe investment portfolio that has been pretty much bullet proof. If you retire from the military...you will at least be double dipping and if you do get a career after military life (a certainty, because retirement from the military really equals 'unemployed').

The thread has centered on tax cuts which is a shame because tax cuts dont have a THING to do with the gap between the rich and the poor. The left clamors for more taxes on the wealthy to pay for more social programs for the crippled and dependent pets that keep voting them in power...but that does NOT create the gap. The poor are not poor because some rich guy or gal is successful. The poor are poor because they FAIL. They failed to prepare, they failed to recover, and now they simply whine about how unfair life is.

When I saw peoples comments that the poor are poor because the rich 'steal' from them, I laughed. I snorted in disgust too...but mostly...I just laughed. When i saw peoples comments that the rich try to make people poor or keep people poor...again...nothing but pure derisive laughter. How people can be that pathetic and stupid is beyond me. I am in the top 5% and if you think I spend even a second devising diabolical and devious plans to keep people poor, then you are sadly mistaken. I WANT people to succeed. I WANT people to get off their lazyu pathetic whiny asses and start doing for themselves and providing for their families (and all those children they create and dont take care of). I WANT them to stop being such a drain on society. I WANT them to be succesful. And some...MANY actually do. Tragically...far too many dont. And thats a tragedy for all of us...because they suffer...the children they invariably spawn suffer...and overall we as a society also suffer. The ONLY people that win with the poor are democrat politicians that exploit their poverty for their votes.
 
The answer can be found in the article you linked.

So reworded, The United States' greedy tax policy has driven corporations to other countries. Only a few reasons exist for companies to stay here in the U.S. many of those are going away. Raising, instead of lowering taxes on corporations will only drive them (and any jobs they provide) to other countries quicker.
How does this policy fit with the Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations? In keeping with that question, why is our trade balance always negative? We used to be the biggest creditor nation, now we are one of the biggest debtor nations. This makes no sense, Sam Walton used to advertise "American made," now when you enter Walmart or any other store most things are made in China.
 
I also will end up quad dipping while my wife will be double dipping AND enjoying the benefits of a pretty healthy and safe investment portfolio that has been pretty much bullet proof. If you retire from the military...you will at least be double dipping and if you do get a career after military life (a certainty, because retirement from the military really equals 'unemployed').

The thread has centered on tax cuts which is a shame because tax cuts dont have a THING to do with the gap between the rich and the poor. The left clamors for more taxes on the wealthy to pay for more social programs for the crippled and dependent pets that keep voting them in power...but that does NOT create the gap. The poor are not poor because some rich guy or gal is successful. The poor are poor because they FAIL. They failed to prepare, they failed to recover, and now they simply whine about how unfair life is.

When I saw peoples comments that the poor are poor because the rich 'steal' from them, I laughed. I snorted in disgust too...but mostly...I just laughed. When i saw peoples comments that the rich try to make people poor or keep people poor...again...nothing but pure derisive laughter. How people can be that pathetic and stupid is beyond me. I am in the top 5% and if you think I spend even a second devising diabolical and devious plans to keep people poor, then you are sadly mistaken. I WANT people to succeed. I WANT people to get off their lazyu pathetic whiny asses and start doing for themselves and providing for their families (and all those children they create and dont take care of). I WANT them to stop being such a drain on society. I WANT them to be succesful. And some...MANY actually do. Tragically...far too many dont. And thats a tragedy for all of us...because they suffer...the children they invariably spawn suffer...and overall we as a society also suffer. The ONLY people that win with the poor are democrat politicians that exploit their poverty for their votes.

One thing I agree with you on is that tax cuts have little to nothing to do with the gap. Very true.

But the problem isn't envy or lazy poor or any of those easy sound bite answers. Left with no controls, every society will eventually lead to such a division. Keeping a strong middle class doesn't actually happen naturally. But to our system, it is essential that we have one. The greater the divide, the harder it will be to sell the myth of equal opportunity, that anyone can reach the top.
 
One thing I agree with you on is that tax cuts have little to nothing to do with the gap. Very true.

But the problem isn't envy or lazy poor or any of those easy sound bite answers. Left with no controls, every society will eventually lead to such a division. Keeping a strong middle class doesn't actually happen naturally. But to our system, it is essential that we have one. The greater the divide, the harder it will be to sell the myth of equal opportunity, that anyone can reach the top.

You both are right on so much. But really there are way too many people in this nation feeling that someone should be supporting them. They look to the government for that and that is not right. You do not hand out money just so that people who do not want to work won't.
 
One thing I agree with you on is that tax cuts have little to nothing to do with the gap. Very true.

But the problem isn't envy or lazy poor or any of those easy sound bite answers. Left with no controls, every society will eventually lead to such a division. Keeping a strong middle class doesn't actually happen naturally. But to our system, it is essential that we have one. The greater the divide, the harder it will be to sell the myth of equal opportunity, that anyone can reach the top.

Boo...if the rich continue to excel (get richer) and the poor continue to fail (and are given excuses to fail) then how does ANYONE expect that gap to NOT grow? The reality is that UNLESS the poor shift gears and TRY, they will NEVER succeed. Blaming the rich may make people feeeeel better...but it WILL NOT solve their problems. No amount of handout programs will solve their problems. They HAVE to decide to first and foremost get UP.
 
You both are right on so much. But really there are way too many people in this nation feeling that someone should be supporting them. They look to the government for that and that is not right. You do not hand out money just so that people who do not want to work won't.

Thanks for your response. we may agree too many, but finding out how many would be difficult. I would argue it is probably not our largest probelm and not the cause for the divide.
 
I also will end up quad dipping while my wife will be double dipping AND enjoying the benefits of a pretty healthy and safe investment portfolio that has been pretty much bullet proof. If you retire from the military...you will at least be double dipping and if you do get a career after military life (a certainty, because retirement from the military really equals 'unemployed').

The thread has centered on tax cuts which is a shame because tax cuts dont have a THING to do with the gap between the rich and the poor. The left clamors for more taxes on the wealthy to pay for more social programs for the crippled and dependent pets that keep voting them in power...but that does NOT create the gap. The poor are not poor because some rich guy or gal is successful. The poor are poor because they FAIL. They failed to prepare, they failed to recover, and now they simply whine about how unfair life is.

When I saw peoples comments that the poor are poor because the rich 'steal' from them, I laughed. I snorted in disgust too...but mostly...I just laughed. When i saw peoples comments that the rich try to make people poor or keep people poor...again...nothing but pure derisive laughter. How people can be that pathetic and stupid is beyond me. I am in the top 5% and if you think I spend even a second devising diabolical and devious plans to keep people poor, then you are sadly mistaken. I WANT people to succeed. I WANT people to get off their lazyu pathetic whiny asses and start doing for themselves and providing for their families (and all those children they create and dont take care of). I WANT them to stop being such a drain on society. I WANT them to be succesful. And some...MANY actually do. Tragically...far too many dont. And thats a tragedy for all of us...because they suffer...the children they invariably spawn suffer...and overall we as a society also suffer. The ONLY people that win with the poor are democrat politicians that exploit their poverty for their votes.

Double, triple, quad dipping, is is what we were taught to do when we were told not to keep all our eggs in one basket.
This stuff should be taught in 7th grade, and repeat in 8th grade, to make sure that future dropouts have been exposed to SOME financial education...
People who fail to prepare for their own future have first been failed by their parents, then their schools. I wish there was a magic wand that we could use like a stick to beat some sense into people's heads, but I already know that all that would do is make the stupid have sore heads. Some of my siblings need that magic wand applied to them in spades...but at their age, it is too late for them.
BTW, stupid means KNOWING you are uneducated, and still you avoid gaining knowledge like it is a disease or something.
Most everyone has sufficeint smarts to learn, but many choose willful ignorance.
 
Common sense is your friend, use it.

If you don't have the money to spend, then don't borrow it so you can.

OMG!!! That's EXACTLY what many of us have been saying!!! If the deficit is such a major concern for Conservatives, what sense does it make to give tax cuts to the wealthiest wage earners if doing so means we have to borrow that money to pay for them which, in turn, will only increase the national debt?

You just said, "If you don't have the money to spend, then don't borrow it so you can." Well, our government does not have $700 billion dollars to pay for the largest tax cuts to go to the smallest number of people. It just doesn't make good financial sense to give tax cuts to those who really don't need them. If the government doesn't borrow the money, they'll be forced to print it with no way to actually pay for it other than eventually increasing taxes or cutting alot of programs. I know the latter is what many Conservatives would rather have happen, but if any of you have been paying close attention to what's happening in many European countries right now, the U.S. is bound to face the exact same problems if Republicans regain control of Congress.

If we are to turn our economic situation around, some tough decisions will have to be made in regards to government spending. This we all can agree on. But the bigger issue for the here and now is how best to spur economic growth. I think the President has this country moving in the right direction. By enacting legislation that provide small business loans through those financial institutions who can reach small businesses faster (small, local banks and credit unions), capital will begin to flow again to get our economic engine moving again. Providing tax cuts to the middle-class should give consumers some financial breathing room so that they (and by "they" I mean those of us who make up the middle-class) can buy goods and services, thus, spurring consumer demand. Once demand increases, productivity is bound to follow. As productivity increases, so should business revenue. Where revenue increases, businesses should have the working capital to add to their payrolls which means they'll be able to hire more.

The wealthy don't need tax cuts, not for their personal income. They need it for the very businesses they create and manage. Therefore, it makes more sense to give those tax breaks (cuts) to small businesses themselves rather then focusing same towards the personal income of the rich. Let's face it, the truth is the wealthy won't use their pre-tax dollars to invest in small business ventures. They'll place their pre-tax dollar in tax shelters (i.e., 401K, ETF, mutual funds, etc.) to increase their networth. Granted, these investments do help major corporations generate revenues (i.e., sell of stocks, bonds, T-Bills, etc.) and that's what many people think of when the discussion of tax cuts to the wealthy comes about, but these such investments commonly don't benefit the typical "small business", i.e., the day care center, lawn care service, barbar shop, auto mechanic, small bouteque, the hair salon, the small independent book seller, the TV/copier repair service, the small restuarant owner, the corner coffee shop (that's not Starbucks), your cleaner or tailor, etc., etc...the vast number of small businesses that do the majority of the hiring across the country. These are the businesses who need the economic help the most because they hire more people from within their communities!

So, if you (Republicans) really want to help move this nation's economy forward either get behind legislation that will help move this country forward or get the hell outta the way!
 
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