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Census finds record gap between rich and poor

justabubba said:
those high income individuals and businesses, whose wealth is expanding in this down economy, are not hiring because of uncertainty you say
this (notso)great recession was not caused by a boom fueled by artificially low interest rates, greed and failure of public regulation in your view, only the uncertainty of government legislation, increasing taxes and healthcare legislation

let's look at the logic of your surmise
the recession was underway before the health care bill was even being pondered. and its financial impact on business has not yet been felt
taxes are lower than they have been in a half century, causing one to wonder why tax rates are of such heightened concern to businesses
and what federal regulation is on the horizon which would have significant financial implications for business ... and what are those financial implications which are so feared
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Businesses, whose wealth is expaning make a very small minority in this economy.

Raising taxes on businesses, whose wealth isn't expanding, even shrinking, is a stupid idea.
 
I read this the other day and thought it would pertain to the topic.....
The United States has one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any high-income nation today, and that gap continues to grow.[16] In recent times, some prominent economists including Alan Greenspan have warned that the widening rich-poor gap in the U.S. population is a problem that could undermine and destabilize the country's economy and standard of living stating that "The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US population has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself".

Rich-poor gap gaining attention / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

Standard of living in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The widening income gap threatens the stability of our democratic capitalist society. And that was Alan Greenspan talking in 2005.
 
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apdst said:
Businesses, whose wealth is expaning make a very small minority in this economy.

Raising taxes on businesses, whose wealth isn't expanding, even shrinking, is a stupid idea.
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your positions do not reconcile with the facts

we are at a point where the tax rate is extremely low, when compared to rates over the past half century

if it were true that low tax rates resulted in low jobless rates our economy should not now be in the midst of a great recession
 
hazlnut said:
Now is not the time to give an additional tax break to the wealthy and super-wealthy.
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Good thing that no one is talking about doing that.
 
justabubba said:
if it were true that low tax rates resulted in low jobless rates our economy should not now be in the midst of a great recession
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This assumes, of course, that tax rates are the only thing that affect emplyment/unemployment.
 
Moot said:
I read this the other day and thought it would pertain to the topic.....
The widening income gap threatens the stability of our democratic capitalist society. And that was Alan Greenspan talking in 2005.
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Greenspan: "It might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself."

Your paraphrase: "It threatens the stability of our democratic capitalist society."
 
justabubba said:
your positions do not reconcile with the facts

we are at a point where the tax rate is extremely low, when compared to rates over the past half century

if it were true that low tax rates resulted in low jobless rates our economy should not now be in the midst of a great recession
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Tax rates aren't the only thing that drives our economy. If it were, you might have a point.

The fact is that, now, businesses have less money to operate on, than they did a couple of years ago. Riasing taxes will cause to have even less money than they already do and that will have a negative effect.

I finished my taxes yesterday and for the first time in my tens years of business ownership, I had to set up a payment plan.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that raising taxes, in a depression is a bad idea. I don't even know what you all hope to accomplish by doing so.
 
Why do so many people care how much someone else is making? Personally, I don't give a ****. I care about how much *I* am making and whether or not it's sufficient for how *I* want to live. What Joe Blow makes and how much more or less it is than what I make is completely unimportant.
 
apdst said:
Tax rates aren't the only thing that drives our economy. If it were, you might have a point.

The fact is that, now, businesses have less money to operate on, than they did a couple of years ago. Riasing taxes will cause to have even less money than they already do and that will have a negative effect.

I finished my taxes yesterday and for the first time in my tens years of business ownership, I had to set up a payment plan.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that raising taxes, in a depression is a bad idea. I don't even know what you all hope to accomplish by doing so.
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raising taxes on those who can afford to pay .... those who most benefit from our national economy appears to be a fiscally prudent act
to do otherwise would expand the amount of deficit spending required


and being a business owner freshly examining the books, identify for us the financial cost to your business and the others like it, which expenses result from the recent health care bill and the federal regulations on the horizon
that request is made assuming you still insist those factors have also contributed to the onset of the great recession
 
rivrrat said:
Why do so many people care how much someone else is making? Personally, I don't give a ****. I care about how much *I* am making and whether or not it's sufficient for how *I* want to live. What Joe Blow makes and how much more or less it is than what I make is completely unimportant.
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Class envy. Some folks seem to think it's a good idea to punish success and that that is going to make things better, or something like that. It's all about redistribution of wealth.
 
justabubba said:
raising taxes on those who can afford to pay .... those who most benefit from our national economy appears to be a fiscally prudent act
to do otherwise would expand the amount of deficit spending required
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No.... because spending can -always- be reduced; to run a deficit is -always- a choice.
 
apdst said:
Class envy. Some folks seem to think it's a good idea to punish success and that that is going to make things better, or something like that. It's all about redistribution of wealth.
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that's just crap.
 
liblady said:
that's just crap.
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If the complant here is that the gap between the wealthy and the poor is too great, that said gap must be narrowed, and that the rich should facilitate this thru higher taxes, how are we NOT talking about the redistribution of wealth?
 
rivrrat said:
Well... to be fair, is there another reason to give a **** about how much someone else is making?
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personally, most people probably don't care....i don't care. our gov't cares, because that's how our share of taxes is determined.
 
RightinNYC said:
Greenspan: "It might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself."

Your paraphrase: "It threatens the stability of our democratic capitalist society."
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Thats because Greenspan said it in 2005 and five years later the poverty gap is now threatening the stability of our democratic capitalist society.
 
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justabubba said:
raising taxes on those who can afford to pay .... those who most benefit from our national economy appears to be a fiscally prudent act
to do otherwise would expand the amount of deficit spending required
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Fiscally prudent for who? Not for the American people. Perhaps if we didn't piss away trillions of dollars on bull****, there wouldn't be so much deficit spending.


and being a business owner freshly examining the books, identify for us the financial cost to your business and the others like it, which expenses result from the recent health care bill and the federal regulations on the horizon
that request is made assuming you still insist those factors have also contributed to the onset of the great recession
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I now, have to send 1099's to all my vendors, that I spend $600 or more with. I'm in the trucking business, so that means that I'm going to have to 1099 most of the places that my trucks fuel up at. Off the top of my head I came up with 56 different vendors that I'm going to have to 1099. My accountant has estimated that it's going to cost about $15 per 1099 and that I should be aware that that price might go up, depending on how much time she has to spend finding out all the necessary tax info on those vendors.

The Obamacare bill is over 2,000 pages long. There's no telling what's in that piece-a-crap.
 
Goobieman said:
If the complant here is that the gap between the wealthy and the poor is too great, that said gap must be narrowed, and that the rich should facilitate this thru higher taxes, how are we NOT talking about the redistribution of wealth?
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the gap IS too large. the middle class is shrinking. that's not good for anyone, rich, middle class, or poor. now, i posted about social mobility awhile back, and that what we are losing in this country. the ABILITY to advance. we need to be certain that exists, or we will collapse. not soon, but certainly at some point. if what we end up with is just rich and poor, watch out. that's when the **** will hit the fan.
 
liblady said:
the gap IS too large. the middle class is shrinking. that's not good for anyone, rich, middle class, or poor. now, i posted about social mobility awhile back, and that what we are losing in this country. the ABILITY to advance. we need to be certain that exists, or we will collapse. not soon, but certainly at some point. if what we end up with is just rich and poor, watch out. that's when the **** will hit the fan.
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You didnt answer the question.
If the complant here is that the gap between the wealthy and the poor is too great, that said gap must be narrowed, and that the rich should facilitate this thru higher taxes, how are we NOT talking about the redistribution of wealth?
 
Moot said:
Thats because Greenspan said it in 2005 and five years later the poverty gap is now threatening the stability of our democratic capitalist society.
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The only thing threatening our democratic capitalist society, is our current government.
 
apdst said:
Ok, then, what do you hope is accomplished by raising taxes?
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i think letting the tax cuts expire for the wealthy, individuals, will provide more needed revenue. we are spending a lot to climb out of this downturn. taxes on business shouldn't be raised, in fact, tax cuts for small business is a good thing. at the same time, i want us to cut spending. and eventually, we will.
 
liblady said:
the gap IS too large. the middle class is shrinking. that's not good for anyone, rich, middle class, or poor. now, i posted about social mobility awhile back, and that what we are losing in this country. the ABILITY to advance. we need to be certain that exists, or we will collapse. not soon, but certainly at some point. if what we end up with is just rich and poor, watch out. that's when the **** will hit the fan.
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That ability is being destroyed by our government, not by the rich folks. Taking money from rich people isn't going to fix any of that.
 
Moot said:
Thats because Greenspan said it in 2005 and five years later the poverty gap is now threatening the stability of our democratic capitalist society.
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Scientist in 2005: "Global warming threatens to raise sea levels substantially"

My paraphrase, today: "I'M DROWNING, HALP"

The fact that Greenspan once said that something might happen in the future does not offer support for the argument that it is happening now.
 
liblady said:
i think letting the tax cuts expire for the wealthy, individuals, will provide more needed revenue. we are spending a lot to climb out of this downturn.
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What good is that revenue going to do? The government can't create wealth. Poor people aren't going to stop being poor, just because the government hosed down a buncha rich people for more taxes.

taxes on business shouldn't be raised, in fact, tax cuts for small business is a good thing. at the same time, i want us to cut spending. and eventually, we will.
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Well, guess what! Alotta those evil, greedy, racist rich folks, are small business owners, who file under an s-corp, which put's their personal income above Obama's level of how much personal wealth is acceptable to him. Remember when he said, "at some point, you've made enough money"? Who gets to decide what that point is?
 
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