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'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

Kandahar said:
I'm not the one who claims that the military should be able to dictate their own policy, so it doesn't really matter.
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If you're going to attack a veteran's service, you better have some time in the field to back it up.

With that said, let's think about who probably has a better understanding of what a 20-year-old soldier thinks: Me (a 20-something civilian) or Navy Pride (a 500-year-old veteran). Not everyone in America is as homophobic as you oldtimers. And even if they were, that's THEIR problem if they won't serve with homosexuals.
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Let me get you up to speed here and tell you that you have know clue what a 20 year-old soldier thinks. Don't even go down that road.


And, please, stop calling everyone that disagrees with your misguided agenda a homophobe.
 
rivrrat said:
Right, because NO ONE would lie!

They've been forced to hide and lie forever, that won't change when DADT is repealed. What WILL change eventually is the military's outdated, unjust, discriminatory rules.
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Exactly, which is why DADT needs to remain in place and the ban on gays be lifted. What will change, with the repeal of DADT, is now, unit leaders will be able to disharge a soldier on the slightest suspicion of homosexual activity, no matter how unfounded. At least, now, there is a regulation that protects gay soldiers. Without DADT, gay soldiers would have ZERO protections. But hey, go for it, see how it works out for you.

The anti-DADT folks are so ignorant of how the military works, that they're going to do more harm than good, with the abolition of DADT.
 
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rivrrat said:
We do know, based on surveys about 50% of homosexuals engage in anal sex and about 40% of heterosexuals. Heterosexuals can't make "daisy chains" with anal, but I have witnessed dungeons with several people in a chain going ass to dick to mouth with a mixture of men and women. Hell, that was just in a rural area in Kentucky. :lol:





Yes, yes I know. You guys want to stick something that you eliminate waste from inside us gals. We get it. You want us to accept your urine ridden member into our bodies. Not only in our vaginas, but in our MOUTHS. What the **** is the purpose of that? Sticking something you piss out of into something I eat with?

Fact is Navy, our bodies are our own. We will each use them as we see fit. I stick a hunk of battery operated plastic up my vagina on a regular basis. I'm betting "mother nature" never counted on that either. But you know what? I don't give a flying ****.
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I don't know what kind of guys you engage in sex with but I myself do not engage in those activities....I find them diagusting and repulsive.................I treat my partner like a queen and put her on a pedestal...You have been with the wrong kind of guys honey.....I see where all your hate for men comes from now...............
 
Navy Pride said:
Thanks for getting back on topic my friend...................That is and easy one..................The dems don't have the votes now in the senate and they damn sure won't have them in November.............
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They definitely had the votes, what they didn't have is the votes to allow it to come to a vote on the floor and break the party of No's filibuster.
 
Navy Pride said:
I did not make that up...I think gay groups acknowledge that gay men have a a shorter life expectancy then straight men....
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You may be forgetting however NP that the military tests for HIV at least once every 3 years (although, while I was on active duty, I know I was tested every 2 years on shore duty, and every year on ship). And the military actually allows anyone to stay in with HIV, they are just restricted on where they may serve.

Also NP, please keep in mind that there are other people on this board who have served in the Navy, onboard ships for >90 days at sea, who have served more recently than you. I am one of them, and I know that there are many servicemembers who could truly care less if gays are allowed to serve openly. There are some ratings in the Navy that are so undermanned that even people who would object morally to homosexuality and/or who may be uncomfortable living with homosexuals would quickly get over it to get DADT (and the UCMJ sodomy laws) repealed if it meant that they would have a better watch and/or liberty rotation. You tend to learn what is really important when you have to stand 6 and 6s or 3 section duty while the rest of the ship is on 4 or 5 section duty. Some subs are port and starboard duty rotation. Allowing gays to serve openly could actually cause more people to want to join or at least keep some of those qualified in, which would mean more people to stand watches, which means more liberty for everyone.
 
apdst said:
I hate it when DADT threads turn into nothing more than a buncha Libbos shouting, "you-a-homophobe!", just because someone disagrees with the repeal of DADT.
What boggles my mind the most, is how they curse DADT, but fail to understand that DADT is the only law that actually allows gays to serve in the military. Without it, unit leaders would be authorized to poll the members of their units to see whose gay and whose straight; discharging the gay members, because the repeal of DADT doesn't lift the ban on gays serving in the military.

I think they're opening a big-ass can of worms and don't even realize it. I think that's the reason that the joint chiefs have been so quiet on the issue. When DADT is repealed, the JCS are going to clean house, then sit back and say, "hey! You wanted DADT repealed, well, you got what you asked for!".
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Hey it took them to the 3rd post on this thread to start with the homophobe bull****.............And they call us the intolerant ones.......what a joke................
 
Navy Pride said:
We have been over this..........go back and read the thread instead of running your mouth.....thanks..............
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No. Let's summarize the actual objections you've raised to allowing gays to serve in the military. I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

1. You don't want some big, muscular, naked black dude named Tyrone to stare at your **** in the shower.
2. You don't want tall, dark, and handsome Enrique telling you about how he bent his gay lover over a chair, with sweat dripping from his hairy chest while he ****ed him in the ass.
3. You don't want cute, blonde Steve to make a pass at you in the barracks when you're trying to sleep. That would just be awful, and certainly not exactly what you want.

Even if all of your scenarios were commonplace among gay soldiers in the military (and they aren't), none of them are good enough reasons to discriminate. If you don't have any actual justification aside from your homoerotic fantasies for denying homosexuals their equal civil rights, then you should just admit that your position has no merit.

Who do you think you're fooling anyway? We all know that there is one and only one reason why you don't want gays to serve: You just don't like gay people. Period.
 
apdst said:
What boggles my mind the most, is how they curse DADT, but fail to understand that DADT is the only law that actually allows gays to serve in the military.
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Wrong....they could serve before, they just had to lie and claim to be straight. DADT punishes honesty. Wow....what a concept. Lying is ok.....honesty will get you discharged. Talk about screwed up values.
 
Navy Pride said:
DD you use to bring something to the table but now all you do is attack other members......I am sorry things like gay marriage and DADT are not going well for you but please try and bring something of essence to the table...........I won't respond to anymore of your posts that are just personal attacks..............

Thanks.............
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If you aren't pulling the figures out of your anus...perhaps you could enlighten us all Navy and explain where you are getting the figures from that you cite.

We'll all be waiting patiently.

My guess...is that we all know your source
 
apdst said:
If you're going to attack a veteran's service, you better have some time in the field to back it up.
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I'm not attacking his service. But serving in the military 100 years ago doesn't give you any special viewpoint of what military service is like today.

apdst said:
Let me get you up to speed here and tell you that you have know clue what a 20 year-old soldier thinks. Don't even go down that road.
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I'll bet I have a lot more in common with 20-year-old soldiers than you old farts do, veterans or not.

apdst said:
And, please, stop calling everyone that disagrees with your misguided agenda a homophobe.
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OK. Let's hear your completely rational justification for why gays shouldn't be allowed to serve openly. Ready when you are.
 
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CriticalThought said:
Gay men have no reason to fear a confidential survey. No matter how "uncool" unsafe sex is, if you can't attach their name to it, they have no reason to lie.
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They don't fear the survey, they manipulate it. Many people are not honest with themselves so being dishonest with a confidential survey should be no problem.
 
disneydude said:
Wrong....they could serve before, they just had to lie and claim to be straight. DADT punishes honesty. Wow....what a concept. Lying is ok.....honesty will get you discharged. Talk about screwed up values.
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you make the same mistake as most people. before DADT, they could ask you if you were gay, if you lied they let you stay. after DADT they could no longer ask. you don't have to lie, you just have to keep you mouth shut. repealing DADT does absolutely nothing to overturn the military's ban on gays serving.
 
disneydude said:
Wrong....they could serve before, they just had to lie and claim to be straight. DADT punishes honesty. Wow....what a concept. Lying is ok.....honesty will get you discharged. Talk about screwed up values.
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Wrong, they couldn't serve prior to DADT, because of the outright ban on gays that exists in the military. Not only that, a recruiter could ask if a new recruit was gay and if the new recruit ignorantly said yes, then he was out the door; which detered gays from even trying to enlist.

You're shooting yourself in the foot, because without DADT, it will be easier to smoke out gays serving in the military.

You never served a day in the military and you know more about it than what I learned in 12 years. Carry on!
 
OscarB63 said:
you make the same mistake as most people. before DADT, they could ask you if you were gay, if you lied they let you stay. after DADT they could no longer ask. you don't have to lie, you just have to keep you mouth shut. repealing DADT does absolutely nothing to overturn the military's ban on gays serving.
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Don't think that you know what you're talking about, just because you're in the military. 1/1 PC Rangers have it all figgered out. The rest of us are homophobes.
 
OscarB63 said:
you make the same mistake as most people. before DADT, they could ask you if you were gay, if you lied they let you stay. after DADT they could no longer ask. you don't have to lie, you just have to keep you mouth shut. repealing DADT does absolutely nothing to overturn the military's ban on gays serving.
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I recognize that....however, you make the bigger mistake in believing that it ends there. Gay people in the military have to lie every day. What do you think happens when soldiers sit around and talk about girlfriends back home, about celebrities that they think are hot...etc. If the gay soldier sits silent, you don't think that this is going to expose them as being gay?...and if they can't be honest and open, many feel that they have to put on an act so as not to out themselves. Its all really rather silly.
The vast majority of America, including those serving in the military are not as homophobic as people, for instance, in Navy Pride's generation. Most people are more tolent today.
 
CriticalThought said:
That is definately true. Especially in Afriica. It has been used forever as a form of birth control due to lack of contraceptives, and has contributed immensely to the spread of HIV among heterosexuals in that population.
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I'll have to call a big B.S. on that. MORE a heterosexual thing. Please make an attempt to be reasonable and realistic. It is just amazing what people can convince themselves of after enough rationalization. I am not saying that heteros don't have anal sex but your premise is ridiculous. Yeah, sure, homosexuals can't be bothered with anal sex any more because they have so many other choices and they are so much more responsible than heterosexuals. It's popular in Africa amoung hetero's so I can say it is generally just a popular everywhere else in the world.
 
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apdst said:
Wrong, they couldn't serve prior to DADT, because of the outright ban on gays that exists in the military. Not only that, a recruiter could ask if a new recruit was gay and if the new recruit ignorantly said yes, then he was out the door; which detered gays from even trying to enlist.

You're shooting yourself in the foot, because without DADT, it will be easier to smoke out gays serving in the military.

You never served a day in the military and you know more about it than what I learned in 12 years. Carry on!
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Oh puh-lease....you stare the facts right in the face and then deny their existence. You are fooling yourself if you believe that gays didn't serve in the military before DADT. Gays have always served. The only issue is whether they have to lie about it or whether they can be honest.

Maybe my value system is screwed up, but I was taught to believe that given the choice between being honest or deceitful, it is better to be honest.
 
Kandahar said:
I'm not attacking his service. But serving in the military 100 years ago doesn't give you any special viewpoint of what military service is like today.
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When you claim that he served, "100 years ago", then yes, you're attacking his service.



I'll bet I have a lot more in common with 20-year-old soldiers than you old farts do, veterans or not.
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I bet you don't. I got an idea, enlist and find out. Then come tell us, "old farts", that we don't know ****.



OK. Let's hear your completely rational justification for why gays shouldn't be allowed to serve openly. Ready when you are.
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I enver said they shouldn't. I've explain how gays can be allowed to serve in the military. But keep going down the, "I'm going to insult every veteran that doesn't share my point of view, no matter how small minded and ignorant it may be", road. It may actually lead somewhere.
 
In all this righteous indignation about the vote I want to point out that just like a lot of issues the DADT amendment or bill was attached to a general appropriations bill for the military and included one other controverisal provision called the Dream something or other. Basically the "Dream" bill is a stealth law for giving amnesty for a lot of illegal aliens. So the vote was not strictly a mandate on DADT.
 
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disneydude said:
Oh puh-lease....you stare the facts right in the face and then deny their existence. You are fooling yourself if you believe that gays didn't serve in the military before DADT. Gays have always served. The only issue is whether they have to lie about it or whether they can be honest.
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I enver said they didn't. Wanna keep teaming up with Kandahar and creating statements that I never made?

Maybe my value system is screwed up, but I was taught to believe that given the choice between being honest or deceitful, it is better to be honest.
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Yeah and if you paid attention to what I really said, vice seeing comments that were never made, you would see a way for gays to serve in the military, without fear of punishment under the UCMJ. But, since you never served a single minute in the military, you know about it than what I learned in 12 years.
 
Kandahar said:
No. Let's summarize the actual objections you've raised to allowing gays to serve in the military. I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

1. You don't want some big, muscular, naked black dude named Tyrone to stare at your **** in the shower.
2. You don't want tall, dark, and handsome Enrique telling you about how he bent his gay lover over a chair, with sweat dripping from his hairy chest while he ****ed him in the ass.
3. You don't want cute, blonde Steve to make a pass at you in the barracks when you're trying to sleep. That would just be awful, and certainly not exactly what you want.

Even if all of your scenarios were commonplace among gay soldiers in the military (and they aren't), none of them are good enough reasons to discriminate. If you don't have any actual justification aside from your homoerotic fantasies for denying homosexuals their equal civil rights, then you should just admit that your position has no merit.

Who do you think you're fooling anyway? We all know that there is one and only one reason why you don't want gays to serve: You just don't like gay people. Period.
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So, now we're going to bring race into it?

it just never ends.
 
OscarB63 said:
you make the same mistake as most people. before DADT, they could ask you if you were gay, if you lied they let you stay. after DADT they could no longer ask. you don't have to lie, you just have to keep you mouth shut. repealing DADT does absolutely nothing to overturn the military's ban on gays serving.
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I believe it is quite ignorant for anyone to believe that the military, Congress, or whoever the heck it takes to repeal DADT would not also include any other military rules that would keep gays from serving from being repealed as well. The whole point of removing DADT is so that gays will be able to serve in the military openly. Most of the military rules have already been changed to accomodate this. The only real rule that only affects gays, from what I know, is DADT. Even sodomy rules could technically stay in place, since the military would actually have to prove sodomy occurred and the punishments would have to be equivalent to those that would be received by a heterosexual engaging in the same act(s). Sexuality would also have to be included in the tolerance and equal opportunity trainings. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that these are a few of the things that they are looking into in the study.
 
Navy Pride said:
The Senate just voted and the dems only got 56 votes so DADT is still law.............
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Bad idea to put it to a vote, Harry... Sure, hundreds of gays came out of the closet, but not near enough to counter the millions who are still prejudiced.

ricksfolly
 
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