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More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

Troubadour said:
Trickle-down economics is silly.



If I were rich, I would be just as contemptuous of people who wanted to give me a tax cut in the middle of a recession. Of course, you're welcome to call my bluff. :mrgreen:
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If I had wheels i'd be a trolley car
 
TurtleDude said:
If I had wheels i'd be a trolley car
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Non sequiturs aside, trickle-down economics is the most ludicrous self-justification myth of the elite since racial hierarchy.
 
Troubadour said:
Non sequiturs aside, trickle-down economics is the most ludicrous self-justification myth of the elite since racial hierarchy.
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I guess you never figured out that in almost every system, the best and the brightest or the most talented and the most lucky always win.

I prefer complete laissez faire-which I guess you would call trickle down

those who push socialism fall into two categories

poor competitiors or those who pander to them and use their votes to gain wealth and power without really earning it
 
TurtleDude said:
Boo wants the rich to pay more taxes not people like him

its the mentality that allows ultra rich dems to gain office

people like Boo need to get walloped with tax increases before the rich do-the rich already pay the price for an overly-expansive government
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Baloney! The rich keep getting richer and pay less taxes. The super rich pay about 17% of their income in taxes. Many of them earn their billions on Wall Street which produces not a G-D thing. It's casino gambling at its worst.
 
pbrauer said:
Baloney! The rich keep getting richer and pay less taxes. The super rich pay about 17% of their income in taxes. Many of them earn their billions on Wall Street which produces not a G-D thing. It's casino gambling at its worst.
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you are lying again

the rich pay higer rates on earned income and at least the same rates on unearned income

stop being dishonest. if you think most of the top 2% work on wall street you really are clueless

still waiting for you to tell me what the rich get in direct extra government benefits that the poor or middle class don't get
 
Troubadour said:
Non sequiturs aside, trickle-down economics is the most ludicrous self-justification myth of the elite since racial hierarchy.
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And trickle up poverty is the most ludicrous self-justification myth of the Liberal Elite since the Russian Revolution.
 
pbrauer said:
Baloney! The rich keep getting richer and pay less taxes. The super rich pay about 17% of their income in taxes. Many of them earn their billions on Wall Street which produces not a G-D thing. It's casino gambling at its worst.
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The hard truth is the wealthy that survive the economic trouble become wealthier or should when we have times like this. They can afford to buy up the bargains, hide their cash waiting for bargains or better times, and the average Joe has more difficulty getting ahead. They see moments like this as a shopping spree for real gems because almost everything can be had at a discount. Anywhere; not just the US.

The Top 1% pay 39% of all fed taxes.
The Top 25% pay 86%.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05in05tr.xls

Taxes and Income - WSJ.com
Every Democrat running for President wants to raise taxes on "the rich," but they will have to do something miraculous to outtax President Bush. Based on the latest available tax data, no Administration in modern history has done more to pry tax revenue from the wealthy.

Last week the Congressional Budget Office joined the IRS in releasing tax numbers for 2005, and part of the news is that the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes that year. The richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%
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TurtleDude said:
I guess you never figured out that in almost every system, the best and the brightest or the most talented and the most lucky always win.
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A historian would laugh at that claim. Talent and intelligence beyond animal cunning are only useful in a society that protects its people from systemic failures and market externalities beyond individual control. As for luck, how long do you think a lucky break would last in a culture of predators? Whatever you can win through talent, someone with a bigger, faster gun than yours can take it in a heartbeat. Whatever you can build through hard work, some warlord or dynasty or corporation can smash it like it's nothing. Unless you are Genghis Khan or someone like him, or you are part of a country of people who stick together, you and everything you could possibly make of yourself is just food for some vulture with a private army. And anyone who does think they're Genghis Khan, all I can do is chuckle and hope they never have to find out otherwise.

TurtleDude said:
I prefer complete laissez faire
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Somehow I doubt it.

TurtleDude said:
those who push socialism fall into two categories

poor competitiors or those who pander to them and use their votes to gain wealth and power without really earning it
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If you live in this country, hundreds of thousands of dollars of other people's money have gone into making your life what it is. You can ignore that and pretend that being born on a mountaintop makes you a giant, or you can accept that we all owe each other a fair shot in life - no exceptions.

Strucky said:
And trickle up poverty is the most ludicrous self-justification myth of the Liberal Elite since the Russian Revolution.
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You're gibbering.
 
Troubadour said:
A historian would laugh at that claim. Talent and intelligence beyond animal cunning are only useful in a society that protects its people from systemic failures and market externalities beyond individual control. As for luck, how long do you think a lucky break would last in a culture of predators? Whatever you can win through talent, someone with a bigger, faster gun than yours can take it in a heartbeat. Whatever you can build through hard work, some warlord or dynasty or corporation can smash it like it's nothing. Unless you are Genghis Khan or someone like him, or you are part of a country of people who stick together, you and everything you could possibly make of yourself is just food for some vulture with a private army. And anyone who does think they're Genghis Khan, all I can do is chuckle and hope they never have to find out otherwise.



Somehow I doubt it.



If you live in this country, hundreds of thousands of dollars of other people's money have gone into making your life what it is. You can ignore that and pretend that being born on a mountaintop makes you a giant, or you can accept that we all owe each other a fair shot in life - no exceptions.



You're gibbering.
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Libs such as you try to create a facade that society needs punitive tax rates for the "good of society" or for "economic viability" when in reality, your true motivation is to punish the rich out of some warped sense of "social justice". This is why no matter what the evidence is you will continue to blather that tax cuts for people who already pay 40% of the federal income taxes while using less than a couple percent of the services paid for by those taxes aren't paying "enough". You are impervious to reality because what Truly motivates you is a burning desire to either afflict the comfortable or to salve your own sense of hurt that you have totally failed to be successful.
 
pbrauer said:
Baloney! The rich keep getting richer and pay less taxes. The super rich pay about 17% of their income in taxes. Many of them earn their billions on Wall Street which produces not a G-D thing. It's casino gambling at its worst.
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You obviously don't understand the function of Wall Street, investments, or anything along these lines.

Why do you persist in posting on a subject you clearly know nothing about?
 
Troubadour said:
Non sequiturs aside, trickle-down economics is the most ludicrous self-justification myth of the elite since racial hierarchy.
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Years ago a political cartoon showed a donkey being fed hay by a rich plutocrat and a ragged looking tax payer at the other end holding a bucket that said Trickle down.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
Years ago a political cartoon showed a donkey being fed hay by a rich plutocrat and a ragged looking tax payer at the other end holding a bucket that said Trickle down.

ricksfolly
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we know well that punishing the rich or limiting their success does nothing to make the untalented or the un productive more self sufficient
 
TurtleDude said:
whats the value of unions to the economy or plaintiff's lawyers or welfare recipients?
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I wasn't speaking about them, I was addressing Wall Street as they have the most effect on the economy. Highly leveraged paper with dubious worth.
 
Boo Radley said:
When would be the right time to raise taxes? There is no evidence that not raising them will help jobs. In fact, someone has a link to a study showing that it wouldn't. But not taxing will add to the debt. So, logically, based on this, what should we do? How much do we really care about the deficit?
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How come we never hear you talking about spending cuts?
 
ricksfolly said:
Years ago a political cartoon showed a donkey being fed hay by a rich plutocrat and a ragged looking tax payer at the other end holding a bucket that said Trickle down.

ricksfolly
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER

Original artwork, Steve Bell.

Any inquiries about this post can be made to the Zimmer Legal Division, Mississippi Delta Office.

Our doors are always closed.

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pbrauer said:
I wasn't speaking about them
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No, ofcourse not. Why talk about the true drains on society?


I was addressing Wall Street as they have the most effect on the economy.
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Is that so? Remember this?

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it's simply somebody else's problem.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax - Yahoo! Finance
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Now follow along here....If taxes on the top say 10% of income earners are what you say drives the economy in this country, and you want to raise their rates, heck I've seen credible liberals say to 90% or higher, then how is it that 47% of people not paying anything is acceptable to you? Shouldn't everyone pay?

Highly leveraged paper with dubious worth.
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First you have to understand what you are talking about. That highly leveraged paper as you call it, was in response to liberals putting the CRA on steroids then threatening regulators in congress for ringing the warning bell about Fannie, and Freddie. Remember this?



Now you can argue that it is all the banks fault, and I would say that an era of abandon did rule in the 90s and early to mid 2000s, but it wasn't without politicians, mostly liberal, egging them on so that they could have their vision of everyone owning a house, forget that they couldn't afford the house they wanted. Now you want to turn and blame the banks for developing a way to hedge their losses that they knew was going to be a result of this unbridled buying? That is really jaw dropping.

Look, you probably don't even realize that it is your money, and my money through savings that makes up the lion share of the capital needed for banks to make loans. That worthless paper as you put it allows banks to lend the money needed to buy things. But you seem to just want big daddy government to take care of everyone. Tell me, where will the government get the money as the rich flee?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
And the simple question would be how much of a tax increase? On whom? and for how long?


j-mac
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How much is always up for debate. But so far we're only talkng about a return to where it was, and the economy did quite well where it was. I don't object to across the board return, but just on those above 250,000 would be just as fine with me.
 
Boo Radley said:
How much is always up for debate. But so far we're only talkng about a return to where it was, and the economy did quite well where it was. I don't object to across the board return, but just on those above 250,000 would be just as fine with me.
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The last part of your response is where I differ. If we need an increase in spending to pay for this social agenda then the pain needs to be felt by all. I do not think we should have an us versus them mentality.
 
Boo Radley said:
How much is always up for debate. But so far we're only talkng about a return to where it was, and the economy did quite well where it was. I don't object to across the board return, but just on those above 250,000 would be just as fine with me.
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Oh, and you think that it will stop there? You think that Obama hasn't raised our taxes yet? Don't kid yourself. Also, this begs the question of what kind of incompetent, idiotic administration raises taxes on ANYONE in the depths of a horrible recession? I'll tell ya, one that hates the American system as it exists now, and want's to "Transform" America into something else.


j-mac
 
washunut said:
The last part of your response is where I differ. If we need an increase in spending to pay for this social agenda then the pain needs to be felt by all. I do not think we should have an us versus them mentality.
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Well, as I also call for a cut in spending, I don't see it quite that way. But, cut or not, it is more about which is more likely to spend. Sadly, the wealthy don't use tax savings to spend. The middle class does more often. If I were goign to make an argument to let anyone be exempt, it would be those more likely to spend, as that is what is really needed for the ecopnomy.
 
j-mac said:
Oh, and you think that it will stop there? You think that Obama hasn't raised our taxes yet? Don't kid yourself. Also, this begs the question of what kind of incompetent, idiotic administration raises taxes on ANYONE in the depths of a horrible recession? I'll tell ya, one that hates the American system as it exists now, and want's to "Transform" America into something else.


j-mac
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J, look up slippery slope fallacy.

If it doesn't stop there, that would be a new proposal deserving a new discussion. Mindless fear mongering won't sway any thinking person to your position. Debate the issue before us and not those from make believe land.
 
Boo Radley said:
J, look up slippery slope fallacy.

If it doesn't stop there, that would be a new proposal deserving a new discussion. Mindless fear mongering won't sway any thinking person to your position. Debate the issue before us and not those from make believe land.
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Hell, we aren't totally done yet weeding through the destruction leveled by the health care debacle. I am sure there is much more to come with that steaming pile. But, as always the liberal response is that we can't do anything about pending disaster until that disaster happens, I don't buy into that attitude.


j-mac
 
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