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More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

To think you can look at the current minor tax cuts and say they didn't help is right because half the job was left undone.

You don't have to go back into history to see that what I say is right just look at what the threats Obama has made to raise taxes and spend what we don't have on programs that don't work to create jobs that never came and the unemplotment rate is still at 9.6 Nationally and about 12.4 in California the biggest single economy and contributor to the Nations economy.

What is it you said? oh yes: "I'm perfectly willing to look at objective evidence." You say that but ignore the evidence that clearly shows Obama's " current level of spending is irresponsible and outrageous. We are spending trillions that we don't have. This could lead to hyperinflation, depression or worse. No country has ever spent themselves into prosperity."

That is my opinion but it is the words of Dr. Charles Krauthammer, MD who helped develop the "Reagan Doctrine" in the 80's that cut taxes dramatically hld spening down and turn the Nation back from the edge of desperation and the deep dark abyss Carter was pushing us into.

We've been spending irresponsibly for a long, long time, regardless of party in charge. I can't think nof anything more irresponsiable than raising spending and cutting taxes as was done under the last administation. Telling people we can fight two wars and not have to pay for it was incredibly irresponsible.

That said, I have not argued anyone's irresponsible spending is OK. So, you seem to be arguing some stereotype and not addressing me specificly.

Let me state my position one more time. I favor cutting spending and raising taxes. And in with all respect for Charles Krauthammer, his partisan and ideaological opinion aside, he simply doesn't get a lot of this right. And he wasn't right then, ignoring Reagan's deficit spending of the time as he does. ;)
 
Boo, this is logic biting you on the ass. Can you feel it? Is it distrubing you?

The purpose of business is to make profit (you do not dispute this). Tax cuts mean more profit (I don't think you can dispute this). More profit leads to more jobs (not sure whether you dispute this, but I think history would preempt that effort). You say this is irrelevant to the discussion when it is the whole point of the discussion.:confused:

Now I'm distrubed.

You're find up until your third point. More profit does not automatically mean more jobs. More people buying means more jobs, not profits from tax cuts. You simply fall for a unsupported claim without digging deeper to find objective proof to support your claim. There is no evidence that tax cuts result in jobs. In fact, the most recent study says they don't. We have a thread on it somewhere. ;)
 
Some like Ed Schultz of MSNBC’s the Ed Show claim that keeping the tax cuts in place won’t help the economy and create jobs. This is a fact he tried to make when I was on his show last week.

Pro-growth tax cuts such as reductions of marginal income tax rates and lower tax rates on capital gains and dividends always create jobs. But extending the tax cuts is not cutting taxes. It is keeping in place the tax code we’ve had for the last decade. As such, extending the tax cuts would not create new incentives for businesses to hire and individuals to save and invest. On the other hand, allowing the tax relief to expire would be a substantial tax increase that would destroy countless jobs.

Despite my reiterating these points numerous times, Schultz has since misrepresented my point by claiming the Heritage Foundation said “the tax cuts won’t create jobs.” This could not be further from the truth.

If Congress allows the cuts to expire, for all taxpayers or just those making more than $250,000 a year, the already anemic economic recovery will slow further. Higher taxes on top-earners will hit job creators like small businesses and investors the hardest. This will reduce job creation and lower wages.

Unless we all want the unemployment rate to linger at 10 percent or above, Congress should make permanent the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for all taxpayers as soon as it comes back from recess. Although this would only solidify the tax code where it has been for a decade, removing the uncertainly businesses and individuals are experiencing would itself be a boon to the economy. With renewed certainty about their tax positions, job creators will get off the sidelines and start investing. A temporary extension won’t do the trick. That would only be a signal to individuals and businesses that Congress plans to raise their taxes further down the road.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/08/02...-the-ed-show-misrepresents-heritage-position/

Your silly premise is that somehow the American people will unleash some glorious spending spree on the nation and pull us back from Obama's folly. Well, I put it to you Joe, How in the hell can Americans start spending more, when they don't have a job, or do have one that dosen't pay well enough to create surplus cash to spend? And if they do have that surplus, liberals like you want Obama to take it for redistribution.


j-mac
 
You're find up until your third point. More profit does not automatically mean more jobs. More people buying means more jobs, not profits from tax cuts. You simply fall for a unsupported claim without digging deeper to find objective proof to support your claim. There is no evidence that tax cuts result in jobs. In fact, the most recent study says they don't. We have a thread on it somewhere. ;)

What an absurd comment. More people buying does not necessarily mean anything more than either a high demand for a product/service or a low price. If a company sells more because they have lower prices, additional employees are not always necessary.

Bottom line.... profits are a requirement before additional employees can be hired. The profit can come from higher margins on goods and services, lower material costs, lower payroll, or lower taxes. It can come from any or all of the above, but it must come from somewhere before new employees can be justified.

Have you ever signed the front of a payroll check ???
 
What an absurd comment. More people buying does not necessarily mean anything more than either a high demand for a product/service or a low price. If a company sells more because they have lower prices, additional employees are not always necessary.

Bottom line.... profits are a requirement before additional employees can be hired. The profit can come from higher margins on goods and services, lower material costs, lower payroll, or lower taxes. It can come from any or all of the above, but it must come from somewhere before new employees can be justified.

Have you ever signed the front of a payroll check ???


No he hasn't.....He told me long ago, that he was a Teacher....Whether or not he was telling the truth? Who knows? Hell, he even lied about who he was when he first appeared here sooooooo....;)

j-mac
 
What an absurd comment. More people buying does not necessarily mean anything more than either a high demand for a product/service or a low price. If a company sells more because they have lower prices, additional employees are not always necessary.

Bottom line.... profits are a requirement before additional employees can be hired. The profit can come from higher margins on goods and services, lower material costs, lower payroll, or lower taxes. It can come from any or all of the above, but it must come from somewhere before new employees can be justified.

Have you ever signed the front of a payroll check ???

So, supply and demand is not important? Tax cuts mean more than Supply and demand. And you talk about absurd comments.

:lamo :lamo

:neener
 
No he hasn't.....He told me long ago, that he was a Teacher....Whether or not he was telling the truth? Who knows? Hell, he even lied about who he was when he first appeared here sooooooo....;)

j-mac

I figured. It's easy to tell by his inane comments.
 
No he hasn't.....He told me long ago, that he was a Teacher....Whether or not he was telling the truth? Who knows? Hell, he even lied about who he was when he first appeared here sooooooo....;)

j-mac

j, I'm fifty one years old. I've done nearly everything during my time. I didn't go to college until I was in my 30's. I've only been a teacher since 1998. I've told you this before as well. ;)
 
So, supply and demand is not important? Tax cuts mean more than Supply and demand. And you talk about absurd comments.

:lamo :lamo

:neener

Right over your head...... I'm shocked. :roll:

Come back when you've had to worry about paying employees for a year or so.

Come back when you've had to write out huge checks to the state and federal government for payroll taxes every month for a few years.

Come back when you've had to go without a pay check so all your employees can get theirs.

Teacher eh? Like they say, those that can do, those that can't, teach.
 
Right over your head...... I'm shocked. :roll:

Come back when you've had to worry about paying employees for a year or so.

Come back when you've had to write out huge checks to the state and federal government for payroll taxes every month for a few years.

Come back when you've had to go without a pay check so all your employees can get theirs.

Ahhhhhh,. . . . the comment retreat of the silly and beaten. :lamo
 
Ahhhhhh,. . . . the comment retreat of the silly and beaten. :lamo

Yep, us "silly and beaten" folks are the ones that pay your bills.

Pretty rich from someone that claims profit is not a necessary prerequisite for hiring new people.

Next time actually read what I posted, and you won't look so silly next time.
 
Yep, us "silly and beaten" folks are the ones that pay your bills.

Pretty rich from someone that claims profit is not a necessary prerequisite for hiring new people.

Next time actually read what I posted, and you won't look so silly next time.



You don't pay my bills jr. There's nothing new about a progressive tax, and all we're talking about is going back to pre-Bush tax cuts. This is hardly oppressive. And we weren't doing badly with the higher tax rate.

But don't let facts influence you when you can just be snarky.

:lamo
 
So, supply and demand is not important? Tax cuts mean more than Supply and demand. And you talk about absurd comments.


He didn't say that, way to misrepresent yet again. :doh


Look Joe, Let's say you're right, let's say that taxes on a business mean nothing at all to it decisions in running, or expanding that business. Then can you explain why it is that the reports of uncertainty in business today are hinging on what the liberal controlled congress is going to do with the "Bush tax cuts"?


j-mac
 
You don't pay my bills jr. There's nothing new about a progressive tax, and all we're talking about is going back to pre-Bush tax cuts. This is hardly oppressive. And we weren't doing badly with the higher tax rate.

But don't let facts influence you when you can just be snarky.

:lamo

Oh I know, libs have been in love with "progressive" taxes for a very long time. They love to take from those that produce and give to those that take.

Oh, and I'm older than you.... junior.
 
Oh I know, libs have been in love with "progressive" taxes for a very long time. They love to take from those that produce and give to those that take.

Oh, and I'm older than you.... junior.

Most governments in the world have a progressive tax. And we've had it with a republicans in charge as well democrats. Again, it isn't new. You may whine about it, but it is common and something that has not prevented people being rich. hell, they still prefer being rich to being poor without a second thought. So, your whining on this doesn't impress me. ;)

Oh, and if you really are older, try acting like it. Be more civil in your discourse.
 
Most governments in the world have a progressive tax. And we've had it with a republicans in charge as well democrats. Again, it isn't new. You may whine about it, but it is common and something that has not prevented people being rich. hell, they still prefer being rich to being poor without a second thought. So, your whining on this doesn't impress me. ;)

I wasn't trying to impress you, I was trying to educate you. That is obviously a waste of time. You are too embedded in Obama's "share the wealth" philosphy.
 
I wasn't trying to impress you, I was trying to educate you. That is obviously a waste of time. You are too embedded in Obama's "share the wealth" philosphy.

Well, you have to present some factual information to educate. And you propbably shouldn't say something silly like tax cuts mean more than supply and demand. And then when you type something so idiot based as the "share the wealth' stupidity, well, I don't see how you can educate.

:lamo
 
He didn't say that, way to misrepresent yet again. :doh


Look Joe, Let's say you're right, let's say that taxes on a business mean nothing at all to it decisions in running, or expanding that business. Then can you explain why it is that the reports of uncertainty in business today are hinging on what the liberal controlled congress is going to do with the "Bush tax cuts"?


j-mac

Notice the word you use, "reports." Who is reporting this? And how do they know? I'm sorry, but when people are willing to spend, some one will step up and meet that demand. Business is never too scared to make a buck. Shooting yourself in the head because you're uncertain that someone might step on your toe is just too silly to accept. I'm sorry.
 
Well, you have to present some factual information to educate. And you propbably shouldn't say something silly like tax cuts mean more than supply and demand. And then when you type something so idiot based as the "share the wealth' stupidity, well, I don't see how you can educate.

:lamo

You have the nerve to request factual information?????

You can start by attempting to show where I made such a claim, then for a follow-up, you can apologize.

By the way, you should know that personal insults are frowned upon here. But you should already know that with your post number, so I can only assume that you choose to ignore the forum rule.
 
You have the nerve to request factual information?????

You can start by attempting to show where I made such a claim, then for a follow-up, you can apologize.

By the way, you should know that personal insults are frowned upon here. But you should already know that with your post number, so I can only assume that you choose to ignore the forum rule.

You said people buying don't matter (supply and demand) and that taxes do.
 
Notice the word you use, "reports." Who is reporting this? And how do they know? I'm sorry, but when people are willing to spend, some one will step up and meet that demand. Business is never too scared to make a buck. Shooting yourself in the head because you're uncertain that someone might step on your toe is just too silly to accept. I'm sorry.


Wow! I am stunned at your lack of willingness to even have an honest conversation about this.

Ok, here we go:

PBS said:
TOM HUDSON: One word describes the mood of American businesses these days Susie -- uncertainty. Many companies we reported are flush with cash, but they`re not spending it or using it to hire workers because they`re uncertain about the outlook on a host of important issues.

SUSIE GHARIB: You know Tom, whether it`s taxes, new regulations or health care reform, executives aren`t sure how these policies will impact their businesses. And many economists are saying that uncertainty is a significant obstacle to economic recovery.

The Impact of Uncertainty on Business | Nightly Business Report | PBS

CS Monitor said:
In a sobering assessment of the US economy Wednesday, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke told the Senate banking committee that employment growth will be weaker than previously expected and that "the economic outlook remains unusually uncertain."

Ben Bernanke sees uncertainty. Businesses report growth. - CSMonitor.com

Businessweek said:
“The minute someone puts out a green light, and earnings constituted a green light, you’ll see people rushing back into risk markets,” El-Erian said. “The indicators that we look at suggest that the economy continues to lose momentum. The key is going to be ultimately is the economy creating enough jobs to make people comfortable, to allow companies to invest?”

Bernanke said on July 21 in testimony to the Senate Banking Committee that “the economic outlook remains unusually uncertain.”

El-Erian Says ‘Noisy’ Reports Indicate Uncertainty: Tom Keene - BusinessWeek

FOXNews said:
Katie Mahoney of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which opposed the health care legislation, says employers are waiting to see all the rules on how the law will be implemented.

For now, "there is a cloud of uncertainty as to what employers and plans and individuals need to do to comply with the law and the regulations," she said.

FOXNews.com - Large Companies Faced With Uncertainty Over Effects of New Health Care Law

Tax hikes, New regulations, Sweeping changes in what business is required under law to pay for employee health care mandates (which BTW, is a tax) are stifling growth. It is a fact.

Now dispute it.

j-mac
 
Laws....do we really need more.
I was stuck at the DMV and searched the Blackberry App Store for something to do.
I found a game that lets me throw shoes at former President Bush Jr. and Bush Sr.
It is named 2010 DC and is available on the Blackberry App world.
God Bless the First Amendment
 
Laws....do we really need more.
I was stuck at the DMV and searched the Blackberry App Store for something to do.
I found a game that lets me throw shoes at former President Bush Jr. and Bush Sr.
It is named 2010 DC and is available on the Blackberry App world.
God Bless the First Amendment


All that hate will shorten your life expectancy.

j-mac
 
Wow! I am stunned at your lack of willingness to even have an honest conversation about this.

Ok, here we go:









Tax hikes, New regulations, Sweeping changes in what business is required under law to pay for employee health care mandates (which BTW, is a tax) are stifling growth. It is a fact.

Now dispute it.

j-mac

J, speaking of honest, where is your objective data as evidence of your point? You offer as you always do someone saying this as if it the person is not to be questioned at all. provide any historical evidence that business will refuse to make a buck over taxes (notice that is different than uncertainty, though I don't buy that change either).
 
Oh, and j, let's look at your articles closer. Notice what they cite as the concerns:

One big factor is the euro area's debt crisis, which has caused investors worldwide to rein in risk and pull back from investments in stocks. Another is the stubborn contraction of bank lending, especially to small business.

"Small businesses, which depend importantly on bank credit, have been particularly hard hit," Bernanke told the committee.

Ben Bernanke sees uncertainty. Businesses report growth. - CSMonitor.com

“The minute someone puts out a green light, and earnings constituted a green light, you’ll see people rushing back into risk markets,” El-Erian said. “The indicators that we look at suggest that the economy continues to lose momentum. The key is going to be ultimately is the economy creating enough jobs to make people comfortable, to allow companies to invest?”

Bernanke said on July 21 in testimony to the Senate Banking Committee that “the economic outlook remains unusually uncertain.”

Average increases of 100,000 private-sector jobs a month this year has been “insufficient to reduce the unemployment rate materially,” Bernanke said. The Fed cut its growth outlook as Europe’s fiscal crisis has led to “a broad-based withdrawal from risk-taking in global financial markets,” he said.

El-Erian Says ‘Noisy’ Reports Indicate Uncertainty: Tom Keene - BusinessWeek

the NPR piece is about republicans sharpening their position, and the Fox piece is about retirement funds being cut. None of the articles support your position, so what was that about an honest discussion?
 
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