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Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

Republic_Of_Public said:
That's hardly comparable, though louts who act instead of think shame any side.

(The only exceptions, of course, being self defence.)
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What IS comparable are the 12th and 13th century Christian Crusaders.
 
ric27 said:
I'm in a good mood, today....

Hmmm....lets see

Ok, Brunei/Malaysia (Jemaah Islamiyah) - Albania (Kosovo Liberation Army or KLA) - Mali (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)

Gambia (Muslim leader sayz female genital mutilation is "An Honor", etc, etc The rest of the piss poor nations are indirectly (to some degree) involved with Muslim terrorist activities..

The point is, we may kill off every member of the Taliban and Al Quaeda, and there will be a new group in the next generation that will espouse a similar belief and continue the war against us simply because we exist because of Islam

Of course, its politically correct to say, "the extremist" have hijacked Islam and do not represent "true" Islam. Even if that is true, there is sufficient support for their view in the Koran.
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hmm..im in a better mood today..

cause and effect buddy.. female mutilation wasn't even practiced during the time of the Prophet nor is it even slightly mentioned in the Quran or Hadith...Coptic Christians in Egypt practice female mutiliation...these are cultural traditions..kinda like how some african countries put springs in their neck to elongate it for beauty..or how the japanese bound their foot, essentially crushing it....these are norms...

now, as far as islamic extremist group...i can do the very same with christians. there are christian militant groups in Africa that kill homosexuals, rape women, and brainwash little kids...

whats your point? im condemning these acts, along with a myriad of islamic, ( and im sure christian) scholars. its called failed religion...

and why do they retaliate this way? the Arab world is very upset...can't you tell? i mean, turn off your Fox News and CNN and really listen and see whats going on there...innocent ppl are dying; ppl are living in shacks with essentially nothing to lose but their lives.

"The cry of the poor may not be just, but if you don't listen to it, u may never know what justice is"
 
female mutilation wasn't even practiced during the time of the Prophet nor is it even slightly mentioned in the Quran or Hadith...
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Good. On the back of that unsubstantiated claim, let's have all the ambassadors of Muslim countries called to the White House for a good 'bollocking' - and told to stop things like that if the US is to take in any more Muslims or give an extra cent in foreign aid to them.



there are christian militant groups in Africa that kill homosexuals, rape women, and brainwash little kids...
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Not on the orders of Jesus (unless my Bible at school had pages missing.)





But Muhammad however.....

The Prophet (saws) said: (1) "Kill the one who sodomizes and the one who lets if be done to him." (Tirmidhi, a sahih (authentic) hadith)
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Islam and Homosexuality

Rape: http://faithfreedom.org/challenge/rapist.htm

Brainwashing? It was standard, but Mo also went lower than even raping his child 'wife': http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-kill-children.htm


As I've said before, because the incitement to atrocity is are first-hand commands by the 'prophet', Islam's just that little bit different!
 
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ric27 said:
I'm in a good mood, today....

Hmmm....lets see

Ok, Brunei/Malaysia (Jemaah Islamiyah) - Albania (Kosovo Liberation Army or KLA) - Mali (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)

Gambia (Muslim leader sayz female genital mutilation is "An Honor", etc, etc The rest of the piss poor nations are indirectly (to some degree) involved with Muslim terrorist activities..

The point is, we may kill off every member of the Taliban and Al Quaeda, and there will be a new group in the next generation that will espouse a similar belief and continue the war against us simply because we exist because of Islam

Of course, its politically correct to say, "the extremist" have hijacked Islam and do not represent "true" Islam. Even if that is true, there is sufficient support for their view in the Koran.
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I'm starting to get very angry at the ignorance within these statements. When you say "Of course, its politically correct to say, "the extremist" have hijacked Islam and do not represent "true" Islam. Even if that is true, there is sufficient support for their view in the Koran." Do you mean the part where it says if you murder any innocent it's as if you murdered the world"? Which parts of the Koran do you speak of? And when you say "their view" you mean the view of extremists.

Kind of like the way someone might use the bible as an excuse to murder homosexuals. Kind of like the way someone might use a Marilyn Manson album as an excuse to shoot up a school. Kind of like the way someone might view the idea that poor people need insuarance as socialism. Kind of like the way someone might use the measurements of a nose to justify genocide.Kind of like the way someone might use the actions of a few to come to the conclusion that 1.4 Billion people are inherently violent and evil.

I think it is outrageous that you can summarize the way 1.4 billion people interpret a book, even though you don't know the book yourself. For crying out loud people. Your excusable rhetoric is getting dangerous. NONE of this is about Islam. NONE of this is about Muslims. The context is extremist islamic jihadists. If there were TEN MILLION Muslim terrorists that would be 1% of the Muslim population. So why must we put this debate on such a macro scale.

We are arguing that people can't have a mosque near ground zero and find that disrespectful and argue about it and mud sling. And they are not even burning bibles?
Imagine! A white guy in America is allowed, because of his constitutional rights, to burn a Quran however a US citizen who owns property, that was approved and liscenced by the city to be an Islamic community center, is the center of a debate about respect.

Respect would be letting Muslims be Muslims while we kill the BAD ones.
 
Republic_Of_Public said:
Good. On the back of that unsubstantiated claim, let's have all the ambassadors of Muslim countries called to the White House for a good 'bollocking' - and told to stop things like that if the US is to take in any more Muslims or give an extra cent in foreign aid to them.

Not on the orders of Jesus (unless my Bible at school had pages missing.)

But Muhammad however.....

Islam and Homosexuality

Rape: Sina's Challenge: Muhammad a Rapist

Brainwashing? It was standard, but Mo also went lower than even raping his child 'wife': Myth: Muhammad Never Killed Children

As I've said before, because the incitement to atrocity is are first-hand commands by the 'prophet', Islam's just that little bit different!
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The Bible Says!

The girl's father and mother shall produce the evidence of the girl's virginity before the elders of the town at the gate. And the girl's father shall say to the elders, "I gave this man my daughter to wife, but he had taken an aversion to her; so he has made up charges, saying, 'I did not find your daughter a virgin.' But here is the evidence of my daughter's virginity!" And they shall spread out the cloth before the elders of the town. - From the New JPS translation, Deuteronomy 22:15-17 - - - (Dads stick fingers in thier daughter's vaginas!)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Leviticus 20:13 KJV - - - (Your God wants to stone gays to death as well!)
 
Do you mean the part where it says if you murder any innocent it's as if you murdered the world"?
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Taquiyya, Taquiyya, Taquiyya!



In Islam, an 'innocent' person is a Muslim. Any Muslim, regardless of the human rights abuses.

The Koran itself says that a 'non-innocent' person, no matter how virtuous, is bad and to be fought.




Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption* [done] in the land -- it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one -- it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn
Because of that, which Cain did, We decreed for the Children of Israel that whoever slays a soul for other than a soul, slain, or for, other than, corruption, committed, in the land, in the way of unbelief, fornication or waylaying and the like, it shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoever saves the life of one, by refraining from slaying, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind — Ibn ‘Abbās said [that the above is meant] in the sense of violating and protecting its [a soul’s] sanctity [respectively]. Our messengers have already come to them, that is, to the Children of Israel, with clear proofs, miracles, but after that many of them still commit excesses in the land, overstepping the bounds through disbelief, killing and the like.
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If you kill an INNOCENT, you kill entire humanity

Quran Sura 5:32 - When Killing isn't Murder | Wingless

Islam 101: Koran Verse 5:32~ A License to Kill | Loganswarning



These Lefties think they know it all but they don't.
 
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By posting these videos all you are doing is advertising extremist islam. Not only that, but the white christian persons interpretation of ALL of Islam. What do you people not get about these people being non violent. If there are 1.4 BILLION of them, how come there isn't an all out holy war? Oh yeah cuz a few people are perverting the words of the Quran, and by the looks of where you get your information...those sources are Christians.

I understand you are showing the extremist side of interpretation. I just wish you did.
 
By posting these videos all you are doing is advertising extremist islam.
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Don't you do a Clinton on me old son! We all know that I'm not promoting any such thing! And if warning about it, exploring it and not hiding it under the rug is 'advertising it', then no wonder dealing with the liberal resistance and even vitriol is part of the education.


If there are 1.4 BILLION of them, how come there isn't an all out holy war?
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You have to be a real loony tune to go right down the violence road. But the jihad can take many forms, as victim-playing hypocrite Colonel Quadaffi himself said 3 minutes in, when he spoke about what Stalin called population transfer:



The crowd applauded.



Oh yeah cuz (sic) a few people are perverting the words of the Quran
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How is posting the FULL quote of the tidbit you put up PERVERTING the words of the Koran? I think we've got no little taquiyya to clear up. Pity there's nothing for it at the chemist. (Or 'drug store' as you put it.)
 
JakeFromWI said:
I think it is outrageous that you can summarize the way 1.4 billion people interpret a book, even though you don't know the book yourself. For crying out loud people. Your excusable rhetoric is getting dangerous. NONE of this is about Islam. NONE of this is about Muslims. The context is extremist islamic jihadists. If there were TEN MILLION Muslim terrorists that would be 1% of the Muslim population. So why must we put this debate on such a macro scale.
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I think this constitutes a major failing of "modern" political thought. We have taken freedom of thought to an unworkable extent. Rather than acknowledging that certain beliefs are incompatible and we can't compromise, we say you can keep your belief and we'll find a way to co-exist. Bull****. There are some belief systems for which there can be no co-existence. Conflict is inevitable until one side is dead...:(

That said, I believe there are strains of Islam that advocate peaceful expansion. There is even a brand of salafism that does so. The problem is they are not dominate.
 
ric27 said:
Rather than acknowledging that certain beliefs are incompatible and we can't compromise, we say you can keep your belief and we'll find a way to co-exist. Bull****. There are some belief systems for which there can be no co-existence. Conflict is inevitable until one side is dead...:(
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So since you believe Islam incompatible, when are you going to go out and start killing Muslims then?
 
Republic_Of_Public said:
Good. On the back of that unsubstantiated claim, let's have all the ambassadors of Muslim countries called to the White House for a good 'bollocking' - and told to stop things like that if the US is to take in any more Muslims or give an extra cent in foreign aid to them.

Not on the orders of Jesus (unless my Bible at school had pages missing.)





But Muhammad however.....



Islam and Homosexuality

Rape: Sina's Challenge: Muhammad a Rapist

Brainwashing? It was standard, but Mo also went lower than even raping his child 'wife': Myth: Muhammad Never Killed Children


As I've said before, because the incitement to atrocity is are first-hand commands by the 'prophet', Islam's just that little bit different!
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1. Tirmidhi is not authentic..only Bukhari and Muslim.

2. The BIBLE IS AN ANTHOLOGY of SEX and VIOLENCE.... let me clarify.

a. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled. Ezekiel 23: 20-21

b. Genesis ch 30 Jacob takes stripped rods and put it in a troth and had animals looking at it while they mated. the offsrpings then came out with stripped fur. in other words, if im having intercourse with my wife while watchign Barney the big purple dinosaur, my kids will be born big, purple, and have a tail.

c. Bible said earth is 5768 yrs old. look at the geneology of luke

D. Dueteronomy ch 21 it talks about having sex with captives

E. Book of Mathhew, it talks about zorastrian priests from Iran following a star, hovering over a stable...Do you know how big a star is? physically impossible

F. In Dueteronomy, Jesus says, "The kings that dont accept me, brign them hither and slay them before me"

G. Luke 12:47 i believe, it talks about flogging your disobedient slaves

H. Old Test. Jesus commands Moses to kill apostates, man, woman, child. "those who dont worship the God of Israel must be MURDERED"

Get to it genius, ill be waiting

3. i want answers to all these verses i've brought up...you hear me? i'm tired of you posting stuff and demanding ansewrs when everyone on this thread rebutes your claims...The ball is on my court now and i want answers to atleast 3 of these issues i brought up...ur choice. ill be waiting...
 
What do you mean answers? A set of statements don't constitute questions.


Unless, though, you're after a repeat of what I said above:

...because the incitement to atrocity is are first-hand commands by the 'prophet', Islam's just that little bit different!
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I'm unaware of Jesus directly ordering the stuff the Bible reports of others, though it seems that H was Jesus putting on the act of a tyrant through a story he made of himself.

http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/luke19_11-27_whyworryitsonlyaparable_1.html
 
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Republic_Of_Public said:
What do you mean answers? A set of statements don't constitute questions.


Unless, though, you're after a repeat of what I said above:



I'm unaware of Jesus directly ordering the stuff the Bible reports of others, though it seems to me that H was Jesus putting on the act of a tyrant through a story he made of himself.

LUKE 19:11-27 CALLS UPON JESUS' FOLLOWERS TO MURDER THOSE WHO DO NOT ACCEPT HIM
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are you kidding me? the prophets according to the Bible are murders, adulterers, suicide killers, alcoholics....i mean, and many of the murders are by order of God whom u believe is Jesus..

Islam however, holds all the Prophets (aliyay salaam) with high regard and exalts them... all the prophets...they were examples and guidance to mankind...
 
I don't believe in God, though I grew up in a country with modern Christian moral ethics.

I recall the Gospels were written anonymously with a view to tally with the more bloody public opinion of the time, with the authorship attributed to the long-dead Matthew, Mark, Luke and John hundreds of years later. Though what's actually in the Old Testament was used as the valid justification for murder in the name of God, which was wrong.

However, the wiggle-room helped the calming and making of Christianity as we know it now. Since then we've had the New Testament, Reformation, Protestantism, Church of England and other constant reform. The forward-looking Christians knew they needed to evolve to fit the times whilst Islam requires its values and people to remain static, their values held back to the same level as Muhammad's.
 
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Republic_Of_Public said:
I don't believe in God, though I grew up in a country with modern Christian moral ethics.

I recall the Gospels were written anonymously with a view to tally with the more bloody public opinion of the time, with the authorship attributed to the long-dead Matthew, Mark, Luke and John hundreds of years later. Though what's actually in the Old Testament was used as the valid justification for murder in the name of God, which was wrong.

However, the wiggle-room helped the calming and making of Christianity as we know it now. Since then we've had the New Testament, Reformation, Protestantism, Church of England and other constant reform. The forward-looking Christians knew they needed to evolve to fit the times whilst Islam requires its values and people to remain static, their values held back to the same level as Muhammad's.
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interesting..i've noticed that with christians...As muslims, we believe the law of God is for ALL time..and his religion is for ALL time...God's religion should be perfect, (doesn't mean we will use it perfectly though)...this whole notion of modernizing can be decieving..Innovation or modernizing is permissible in certain things such as medicine or technology..but innovation is religion is not permissible...God knows whats best for us, and we must keep it real...

i mean, if we just let our own beliefs and suggestions change religion then we may as well be doomed.

have you ever seen a picture of Mary in swimsuits? no, so then why is it permissble for christians to walk around half naked?

The prophet said, towards the end of time, women will be clothed, yet naked. i mean, these are issues that we see today and we must question if this is truly progressive..

1/3 of kids in America are addicted to internet pornography and TV...many are also obese. is this progression? 60% of marriages in america result in Divorce..

religion is suppose to help deal with these issues, as God guides us to teh Truth and keeps us separate from evil doings.

Islam is a religon meant for all time..sure, ppl abuse it and use it in disgusting ways, but the religion is for all time meant to keep us on teh straight path.
 
spud_meister said:
Indonesian Muslims and Christians are usually at peace, acts like this are committed by a fringe element, usually recent Muslim immigrants, I hope whoever did this suffers to the full extent of the law.
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It´s always these fringe elements who are commiting violence, terrorism, etc. I´d like to see more Islamic elements out there protesting this crap, but whatever Muslims might be against it can´t even work their way up to a respectable fringe.
 
VanceMack said:
I see...so...1.3 billion Muslims cant be ALL bad...except...Well...pretty much all of the Wahabbists...but...you cant blame one for the other. OK...but then lets not pretend it is 1.3 billion peaceful 'moderate' non violent muslims then. SO...Im guessing...a good chunk of those Indonesians...Pakistanis...Saudis...taliban, of course the Iranians... a bunch of Muslim extremists in Chechnya...a few thousand in the Philipines...

but just a few...not like...you know...a LOT...and the 'good' Muslims shouldnt be mixed in with the bad nor should they be responsible to call out the bad...so...that 1.3 billion...conservative guess...how many would YOU describe as 'moderate'? And are the moderates the ones that DONT protest when someone draws a cartoon of Muhammed? threaten to kill people over the threat of a book burning?
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The moderates assist in explaining why terrorists want to kill us infidels, why we infdels should be more sensitive, why wife beating is sometimes necessary but also sometimes frowned upon, that there are Catholic priests who also molested children and, besides, other groups commit terrorism too.

Moderates try to put terrorism in perspective,
 
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By posting these videos all you are doing is advertising extremist islam.
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Jake, these are Islamic leaders speaking, mainstream guys, They may sound extreme to someone accustomed to their minister or guru but this is really not that unusual. Maybe you´re new to the wacky world of Islam..

Not only that, but the white christian persons interpretation of ALL of Islam. What do you people not get about these people being non violent.
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So explain how Brown, Black and Yellow Christians feel about it.

If there are 1.4 BILLION of them, how come there isn't an all out holy war?
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Because we have guns and they have stones.

Oh yeah cuz a few people are perverting the words of the Quran
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Actually these few people are frequently quoting directly from the Koran. Do you dispute that_

and by the looks of where you get your information...those sources are Christians.
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Those darned Christians are at it again!! It seems you might support the banning any of these Islamic leaders speaking out lest it fall into Christian hands.

I´m an infidel who enjoys watching these freaks spout their craziness, despite their dangerous hold over a billion plus goofy followers. It supports my theory that the link between the lowest life form and civilized man is us.
 
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GodsWrath said:
1. Tirmidhi is not authentic..only Bukhari and Muslim.

2. The BIBLE IS AN ANTHOLOGY of SEX and VIOLENCE.... let me clarify.

a. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled. Ezekiel 23: 20-21

b. Genesis ch 30 Jacob takes stripped rods and put it in a troth and had animals looking at it while they mated. the offsrpings then came out with stripped fur. in other words, if im having intercourse with my wife while watchign Barney the big purple dinosaur, my kids will be born big, purple, and have a tail.

c. Bible said earth is 5768 yrs old. look at the geneology of luke

D. Dueteronomy ch 21 it talks about having sex with captives

E. Book of Mathhew, it talks about zorastrian priests from Iran following a star, hovering over a stable...Do you know how big a star is? physically impossible

F. In Dueteronomy, Jesus says, "The kings that dont accept me, brign them hither and slay them before me"

G. Luke 12:47 i believe, it talks about flogging your disobedient slaves

H. Old Test. Jesus commands Moses to kill apostates, man, woman, child. "those who dont worship the God of Israel must be MURDERED"

Get to it genius, ill be waiting

3. i want answers to all these verses i've brought up...you hear me? i'm tired of you posting stuff and demanding ansewrs when everyone on this thread rebutes your claims...The ball is on my court now and i want answers to atleast 3 of these issues i brought up...ur choice. ill be waiting...
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This isnt a conflict between Muslims and Christians, it´s a conflict between Muslims and everyone else. It really doesn´t matter what the Bible says.

I´m not a practising Chistian but I´d also have been murdered were I in that disco in Bali, the train in Madrid, the bus in London, the pizza parlour in Israel or anywhere those attacks, and hundreds of others, occurred.

My children would have been murdered also if they were attending kindergarten in Beslan. YouTube - Terror From Hell: The Children of Beslan Tell Their Stories (1 of 6)
 
Supremacists from both Christianity and Islam can suck it.

When any religion is interpreted by authoritarians, you are going to get a religion of violence and hate.

When people who want to exhort social control get a hold of a religion, they argue literal adherence to the parts that benefit them, and figurative adherence to the parts that don't. The mindless sheep them follow their calls.
 
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Grant said:
My children would have been murdered also if they were attending kindergarten in Beslan. YouTube - Terror From Hell: The Children of Beslan Tell Their Stories (1 of 6)
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Terror in Beslan filled me with a ******* of Islam like nothing else I could have imagined. That a religion could spawn such evil..... It opened my eyes and helped explain a lot about what is going on in the world today.

Absolutely my greatest fear because it is the scenario that risks what, we all love the most and where, we have the least control.

Sadly, I don't see any real way to secure the School system that isn't going to have some whiney-liberal-attention whore crying to every member of the media that they can find saying "they are turning our schools into prisons, its not right..." Now, that being said, you know that this very same person will be infront of a camera saying "why didn't the school do anything to prevent this, they should have protected my child"
 
Large-scale Christian fundamentalism is yesterday's news. And even in places where Missionaries were sent, you now have Christian culture contributing to such good and moral societies that many in the Third World see their standard of life as superior to ours on a spiritual level.

I have no problem with the West co-existing with the Muslim world as long as every one of them here co-exists with us. And if any don't they should be warned that where relevant they'll be sent back to their land of ethnic origin.

That would not just have radical and pushy Muslims living back where they would feel more at home (saves changing our places to suit them), but it would also leave us only the benign ones, fit and willing to integrate and get along.



Well, theoretically anyway. As the Quillium Foundation report I mentioned suggested, Islam is the only thing keeping these mainstream Muslim groups from being moderate:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...n-away-damning-government-research-paper.html

(The link has been removed from the Breaking News column.)
 
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France and Britain are about to learn a very hard lesson about what's it like to become an Islamic theocracy. ...And we'll end up in the same scenario unless we face the fact that "freedom of religion" isn't a good thing when a religion wants to take over you're country and subjugate its population.
 
ric27 said:
France and Britain are about to learn a very hard lesson about what's it like to become an Islamic theocracy. ...And we'll end up in the same scenario unless we face the fact that "freedom of religion" isn't a good thing when a religion wants to take over you're country and subjugate its population.
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Nice to know you share the same ideology as Islamists as far as freedom of religion. '

I wonder what else you have in common.
 
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