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Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

MSgt said:
Conflicted, yes. Confused, no. That being said.....I just don't want to catch it...kidding.

I just don't like inaccuracy. DADT was horribly abused by people who simply used it to escape their obligations. The rules were very clear - "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." It was absolutely illegal for anybody to bring personal "investigation" to the C.O. of homosexual activity. It was illegal to ask or to inquire. However, telling was another matter. It forced a legal reaction, especially if the whole unit was watching. Homosexuality had to be obvious, which satisfied the military's want to simply pretend it doesn't exist and the civilian's want to allow them their peace. But it didn't work out that way. Gays and non-gays came out of the wood work to declare their gayness. Under DADT, strict rules told the military exactly what to do. Numbers exploded. There were no mass witchhunts as gays on the outside pretend their were. And DADT was a moral and a financal burden. The few execptions that people cling to in order to rally the parade were not the rule.

My sense of "icky" does not transcend my professionalism to comply and enforce policy. I believe I represent most. The writing is on the wall. It's time to evolve our military once again for the society. I think I can understand the professionalism of those who were tasked with mixing the races or to promote the females to levels of unit responsibility.
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I believe you represent well what is good with our military and why we have the best military in the world. It's because of people like you that DADT can be repealed without significant problems.
 
winston53660 said:
In the same breath you said you wanted DADT.:roll:
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With a lifting of the ban on gays.

try this on and see if it fits your Libbo mindset:

DADT: Leadership don't ask, gay soldiers don't tell, straight soldiers don't tell, soldiers don't tell on gay soldiers.

Or is that not, "in yer face", enough to satisfy you?
 
apdst said:
With a lifting of the ban on gays.

try this on and see if it fits your Libbo mindset:

DADT: Leadership don't ask, gay soldiers don't tell, straight soldiers don't tell, soldiers don't tell on gay soldiers.

Or is that not, "in yer face", enough to satisfy you?
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What about when a gay soldier gets married to their same sex partner?
 
apdst said:
Every combat vet on this forum, since I've been here, on the five+ threads on this subject have told you folks that you're wrong. So, basically, we're wrong and your civilian self is right, because, well, you just are.
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Logic and reason are not majority-sensitive.
 
Redress said:
Some basic facts:
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Allow me to play your jeopardy.....

Redress said:
1) DADT is not going to last much longer. Either congress or the courts will remove it.
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True.
Redress said:
2) If congress does not get rid of it, SCOTUS is almost certain to, with the 4 liberal judges joined by at least 1 of the conservatives(you know who I am talking about).
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This is a body part and has no place in this game.
Redress said:
3) The military does not get a say in whether the policy goes away or not. The military does not, and should not, make that type of decision.
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True
Redress said:
4) The vast majority of young adults in this country(you know, the ones who actually might enlist in the military) support gays serving openly.
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I don't know about that. Maybe I'm ignorant. The country is more full of youth that are tolerant of gays as a sexual legitmacy, but plenty certainly do not "support" gays in the military. I would submit that most simply don't care either way.
Redress said:
5) The only argument against gays serving openly is that it might be a challenge for a few months adjusting.
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Not so sure about this one. This will undoubtedly create problems that go beyond a few months. Probably years. Policies are going to have to be introduced along the way as unforseen problems arise. My Father has told me stories of racial issues even within the Marine Corps circa 1972....well after equal rights marches and after a Vietnam War full of racial integration.
Redress said:
6) Almost no on in this thread has read the actual court ruling that this thread is about, which is just sad. Talking from ignorance is foolish.
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What court ruling? Bdump ching.
 
Redress said:
I believe you represent well what is good with our military and why we have the best military in the world. It's because of people like you that DADT can be repealed without significant problems.
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Considering that the extreme Right seem to want to question who I am these days and question my persona, I really do appreciate this. Apparantly I'm supposed to hate all gays and Muslims. While defending Bush, these same accusers loved me.
 
Msgt, the polling linked earlier in the thread stated that 78 % of the country feels it is time to allow gays to serve openly. Breaking the numbers in that poll down by age, the younger the respondent, the more likely to support gays serving. Over 50 years old, the number was well under the 78 % mark, under 30, well over.
 
winston53660 said:
DADT would get him/her kicked out right?
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Not if no one could ask and no one could tell and there was no ban on gays in the military.

Damn! Why is it so hard for some folks to just, "get it"? Someone presents an option, that can make everyone happy and that's just not good enough.
 
MSgt said:
Considering that the extreme Right seem to want to question who I am these days and question my persona, I really do appreciate this. Apparantly I'm supposed to hate all gays and Muslims. While defending Bush, these same accusers loved me.
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For me, I think all you should be is you. You may annoy the hell out of me at times, but I still respect you.
 
Redress said:
Msgt, the polling linked earlier in the thread stated that 78 % of the country feels it is time to allow gays to serve openly. Breaking the numbers in that poll down by age, the younger the respondent, the more likely to support gays serving. Over 50 years old, the number was well under the 78 % mark, under 30, well over.
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To the Libs, public opinion is irrelevant.
 
apdst said:
Not if no one could ask and no one could tell and there was no ban on gays in the military.

Damn! Why is it so hard for some folks to just, "get it"? Someone presents an option, that can make everyone happy and that's just not good enough.
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Apparently everyone isn't happy. If they were, this issue wouldn't exist.
 
winston53660 said:
No it is not personal he is one.
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I don't get this at all. I have a very real phobia towards snakes. Simply put, they suck and are children of Satan. But what the hell constitutes a homophobe? Are they supposed to be vampire like? "Homophobia" is a myth.
 
apdst said:
To the Libs, public opinion is irrelevant.
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Oh look, meaningless generalities that have jack to do with the topic. Can't have people actually having a rational discussion....

By the way...we don't make laws based on public opinion, nor should we. No one is claiming otherwise. However, since one of the arguments against gays serving openly is that some people won't like it, pointing out that those people are rare and getting rarer is relevant.

So, you want to prove that the US courts don't have jurisdiction over US law yet?
 
apdst said:
Not if no one could ask and no one could tell and there was no ban on gays in the military.

Damn! Why is it so hard for some folks to just, "get it"? Someone presents an option, that can make everyone happy and that's just not good enough.
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What you are proposing is purely senseless. When Sgt X gives the CO an invite to a marry boyfriend X that is telling.
 
Redress said:
Msgt, the polling linked earlier in the thread stated that 78 % of the country feels it is time to allow gays to serve openly. Breaking the numbers in that poll down by age, the younger the respondent, the more likely to support gays serving. Over 50 years old, the number was well under the 78 % mark, under 30, well over.
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I see the logic. It actually makes sense. Oh wait...let me play the "nu-uh" game....link?
 
MSgt said:
I don't know about that. Maybe I'm ignorant. The country is more full of youth that are tolerant of gays as a sexual legitmacy, but plenty certainly do not "support" gays in the military. I would submit that most simply don't care either way.
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Woot! Someone who actually understands! People have always misunderstood or competely ignored the difference between "support" and "don't care"

Support means you are all for it. Don't care means just that. I don't understand why its so hard to understand.
 
MSgt said:
I don't get this at all. I have a very real phobia towards snakes. Simply put, they suck and are children of Satan.
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Hey look, we agree on something.
 
MSgt said:
I see the logic. It actually makes sense. Oh wait...let me play the "nu-uh" game....link?
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It's in the thread. Pardon me if I don't search it out again.
 
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