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Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

MSgt said:
Like I stated over and ****ing over and ****ing over to you and the rest.....DADT is a civilian sin. The numbers forced out rose dramatically when civilians forced us to look at the gays in the military with certain outcome. Until DADT, the military was naturally beginning to simply look the other way. It was looked down upon and expected to fly under the radar until the Clinton administration forced gays into the spotlight throughout the military and forced administrative action. We simply followed your policies...."boss."
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DADT was the compromise struck because the military couldn't stand the thought of gays being allowed to serve openly. Because you guys weren't professional enough to handle it.

You can justify that and rationalize that and dismiss that all you want, it just means that you are incapable of admitting that you as an organization aren't professional enough to look past someone's sexual orientation and see the soldier underneath.
 
MSgt said:
Oh..."aheemmm"...allow me to quote exactly what I stated....."The military has never conducted a study to see and prepare for life post DADT." Here, I will do it again...."The military has never conducted a study to see and prepare for life post DADT."

.
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They have been stdying gays in the military for quite some time was my point. And knowing the military I'm I'm sure there is research going on right now.

Here are a couple more:

19.Lt. Col. Irene V. Glaeser wrote a study entitled, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell: Time for Change,” at the U.S. Army War College as a 2009 Strategy Research Project as part of a paper submitted for a Master of Strategic Studies Degree. The paper cites “exhaustive studies” of both “don’t ask, don’t tell” and the experience of foreign militaries to argue that openly gay service does not impair the military and that current policy “needs to be revised and lifted.” Glaeser states that the U.S. has “entered an era of persistent conflict,” and must be “broad-minded and agile enough to adapt.”xx

20.In Spring 2010, Air University Press, the government-owned publishing arm of the U.S. Air Force, will publish a comprehensive volume on diversity in the Armed Forces. The book, entitled Attitudes Aren’t Free: Thinking Deeply about Diversity in the US Armed Forces, offers a range of perspectives and a framework for improving policy on religious expression, open homosexuality, race, gender, and ethics in the Armed Forces. Palm researchers have written a chapter for the book in light of President Obama’s stated intention to end “don’t ask, don’t tell.” The chapter addresses questions about how best to execute and manage the transition from exclusion of openly gay personnel to inclusion. The Palm chapter addresses the political, legal, regulatory, and organizational steps necessary to ensure that the implementation process goes smoothly.xxi
 
I am unable to respect those members of our armed services who are unable to overcome their bigotry, hatred and fear because while they are wearing my country's uniform, they are unable to exemplify the values this country stands for.

This would be the same reason I am unable to respect civilians with the same problem -- because each of us, in our own way, represents this country. Bigotry, hatred and fear bring shame to it.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I am unable to respect those members of our armed services who are unable to overcome their bigotry, hatred and fear because while they are wearing my country's uniform, they are unable to exemplify the values this country stands for.

This would be the same reason I am unable to respect civilians with the same problem -- because each of us, in our own way, represents this country. Bigotry, hatred and fear bring shame to it.
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I think you would find that most people in the military are not that up in arms over this.
 
apdst said:
Why do you disrespect our service members?
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Because if we go by what you're saying, the only people who seem to worry about who the person next to them ****s, to the point where they wouldn't be able to properly function if the person were gay, seem to be in the military. That's quite unprofessional.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
DADT was the compromise struck because the military couldn't stand the thought of gays being allowed to serve openly. Because you guys weren't professional enough to handle it. You can justify that and rationalize that and dismiss that all you want, it just means that you are incapable of admitting that you as an organization aren't professional enough to look past someone's sexual orientation and see the soldier underneath.
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Spare me the gay parade and gain control of your emotions. Look, I don't care where you wish to place you prick. None of you matter to me nor do you matter to the most of us. You are as insiginificant to my world as the bum in the street or the banker on Wallstreet. Gays in the military were far better off without DADT. And once again, professionalism is following the policies and the orders. When those orders change, so will the military. In the mean time, our media will continue to blast homosexual Republicans in the news as if it is a shame. Television will continue to display gays as pansies in comedies. And movies will continue to place them in dresses and nail polish.

Like I stated earlier, hate on the military all you like. In the end, it's society that prescribes the general mood. What you want is for the military to make it all better for you and you blame it for not snapping centuries of tradition in two on a whim. My guess is that you won't be the first inline to sign the dotted line anyway. Other gays and the rest of us are going to have to go through the storm for your sense of self soothing. You might as well allow us the study to figure our how best to do it.
 
Hatuey said:
Because if we go by what you're saying, the only people who seem to worry about who the person next to them ****s, to the point where they wouldn't be able to properly function if the person were gay, seem to be in the military. That's quite unprofessional.
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Another voice of experience. What happens when that person turns out to be gay and is a heterophobe?

You all act as if the problem is about homophobic straights that are too prejudiced to serve with gay soldiers.

I can't believe that people who claim to so enligthened and intelligent are having such a hard time seeing the bigger picture.
 
MSgt said:
Gays in the military were far better off without DADT.
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Right, because an outright ban on serving if you're gay was so much better! :lol:

MSgt said:
Like I stated earlier, hate on the military all you like.
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Feel free to continue to mischaracterize everything I've said while you're at it. It's blatantly obvious to me that honesty is not something you have any interest in, at least within the bounds of this discussion.

MSgt said:
In the end, it's society that prescribes the general mood.
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Feel free to fail to take responsibility, or assign it where appropriate, for the military's attitude on homosexuality. Another example of where honesty isn't what you're aiming for.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I am unable to respect those members of our armed services who are unable to overcome their bigotry, hatred and fear because while they are wearing my country's uniform, they are unable to exemplify the values this country stands for.

This would be the same reason I am unable to respect civilians with the same problem -- because each of us, in our own way, represents this country. Bigotry, hatred and fear bring shame to it.
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You bring your own brand of bigotry to the table, as well. You assume that straight, white male soldiers are going to the biggest part of any problems that will arise.
 
apdst said:
You bring your own brand of bigotry to the table, as well. You assume that straight, white male soldiers are going to the biggest part of any problems that will arise.
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I never said any such thing, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Please stop lying about me.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Right, because an outright ban on serving if you're gay was so much better! :lol:
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Actually, a suspension of the ban on gays and the retention of DADT would be better. But, oh no! Ya'll don't want that ****!

Instead, ya'll want to go off half cocked, demand that DADT be abolished, without giving a single thought to the concequences and call everyone that disagrees with you a homophobe and a bigot.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I never said any such thing, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Please stop lying about me.
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You keep talking about prejudice against gays. You've never once suggested that there amy be gays who would be prejudice against straights.
 
winston53660 said:
They have been stdying gays in the military for quite some time was my point. And knowing the military I'm I'm sure there is research going on right now.
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Well, it is a good point. However, it wasn't my point and I was very clear on it. The research going on right now is how best to impliment an open gay military post DADT not whether or not it is doable. Virtually all studies in the past were focused on why it can't happen. This study is very different. In the Commandants latest address to the Marines he stated that, based on his interviews and polls throughout the Corps, most Marines do not feel comfortable sharing a room with a homosexual. This isn't news. However, it very much goes into how to impliment an inevitable situation, which is what this study is about. Do you have any idea how many people think of "Just Jack" or the Birdcage when someone mentions homosexuality? Who's to blame for this? This current study is focusing on how to educate beyond the American mindset and how to jump the hurdles as painless as possible. Of course, training for our jobs in the mean time is somewhere on the list.

Do we really need to keep doing this?
 
apdst said:
Actually, a suspension of the ban on gays and the retention of DADT would be better. But, oh no! Ya'll don't want that ****!

Instead, ya'll want to go off half cocked, demand that DADT be abolished, without giving a single thought to the concequences and call everyone that disagrees with you a homophobe and a bigot.
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No, I just want my military to be held to something approximating the same moral standard that I hold the rest of the nation to.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
No, I just want my military to be held to something approximating the same moral standard that I hold the rest of the nation to.
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Well, I hate to break it to you, but the mlitary doesn't answer to you. Sign on the dotted line and take the oath and do something about it, if you're that passionate. I dare ya!!
 
apdst said:
You keep talking about prejudice against gays.
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Because DADT is the subject. That doesn't change the fact that you lied about me. Please stop lying about me.

apdst said:
You've never once suggested that there amy be gays who would be prejudice against straights.
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Just as, I suppose, if the subject was the inherent racism of sundown towns, it would never cross my mind to bring up that there are some minorities who don't like whites. So what?

I never said that such a thing would be okay.

Please stop lying about me.
 
apdst said:
Well, I hate to break it to you, but the mlitary doesn't answer to you.
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That doesn't mean I can't want them to be held to the same moral standard I hold the rest of the nation to.

apdst said:
Sign on the dotted line and take the oath and do something about it, if you're that passionate. I dare ya!!
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Why, that's a great idea -- if you don't like how the military is being run, sign up for the military and be forced to live with how it's run. :lol:
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Because DADT is the subject. That doesn't change the fact that you lied about me. Please stop lying about me.



Just as, I suppose, if the subject was the inherent racism of sundown towns, it would never cross my mind to bring up that there are some minorities who don't like whites. So what?

I never said that such a thing would be okay.

Please stop lying about me.
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You're proving my point that you're unable to see the bigger picture. You think it's all about, "the military's attitude toward homosexuality", and that nothing else factors in.
 
apdst said:
You're proving my point that you're unable to see the bigger picture. You think it's all about, "the military's attitude toward homosexuality", and that nothing else factors in.
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That's actually not true, as illustrated by my brief exchange with Caine.

Please stop lying about me.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
That doesn't mean I can't want them to be held to the same moral standard I hold the rest of the nation to.
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The military exists to protect the country, not meet your--or anyone else's--moral standard.


Why, that's a great idea -- if you don't like how the military is being run, sign up for the military and be forced to live with how it's run. :lol:
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Enlist and effect a change. Train soldier how to deal with serving with openly gay soldiers. Put up, or shut up.
 
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