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Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

apdst said:
Why are you folks having such a hard time seeing the big picture? Is it a lack of military experience? You're just being obtuse? What?
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There just wouldn't be a problem with gays serving openly, if it wasn't for the prejudice of the senior NCOs.
 
apdst said:
So, you're going to take these studies, done by who knows, who and ptu that up against decades of combined experience of combat soldiers that are telling you something completely opposite? We've been there and done that, but we're all full of ****?

Listen to yourself!
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Well you are full of it that much is for sure.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
How about the IDF? That was the subject of the report he linked to earlier.
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There's no way to tell. The IDF hasn't been in a prolonged conflict like the 6-Day War, or the '67 War, since they lifted the ban on gays in 1993.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Oh, I get it. You don't want to answer the question -- is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country -- so you try to assault my credibility.

That's not going to work, because I'm not claiming to be an expert, or to have experience.

I'm just asking a question.

I can't seem to get a straight answer.
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Then, why are you calling the people that do have the experience that we disagree with you, because we're just a buncha homophobes?
 
apdst said:
There's no way to tell. The IDF hasn't been in a prolonged conflict like the 6-Day War, or the '67 War, since they lifted the ban on gays in 1993.
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Are you kidding me?

Would anybody from Israel who has served in the IDF care to weigh in and agree with apdst, that the IDF hasn't seen "real" combat since the war in 1967?
 
apdst said:
Then, why are you calling the people that do have the experience that we disagree with you, because we're just a buncha homophobes?
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Because that's the opinion I've formed based on the words coming out of your mouthes and keyboards.

Answer my question -- is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country?
 
winston53660 said:
Well you are full of it that much is for sure.
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Yeah, I spent 12 years in an infantry unit. Served in Panama, Desert Storm, Korea and Kosovo. What could I possibly know about the subject...:rofl

Every combat arms vet on this forum is telling you how you're wrong, but we just hate gays? Is that it?

You need to enlist. Go help change the system.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Are you kidding me?

Would anybody from Israel who has served in the IDF care to weigh in and agree with apdst, that the IDF hasn't seen "real" combat since the war in 1967?
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That's not what I said. I said they haven't been in a prolonged fight, since they lifted the ban in 1993. You're more than welcome to provide some docs that prove me wrong.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Because that's the opinion I've formed based on the words coming out of your mouthes and keyboards.

Answer my question -- is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country?
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The answer to that would be, no.
 
apdst said:
Yeah, I spent 12 years in an infantry unit. Served in Panama, Desert Storm, Korea and Kosovo. What could I possibly know about the subject...:rofl

Every combat arms vet on this forum is telling you how you're wrong, but we just hate gays? Is that it?

You need to enlist. Go help change the system.
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Your anecdotal evidence vs empirical evidence hmmmmm I'll opt for the empirical evidence.

but we just hate gays?
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I don't know about the others but you certainly have some homophobic issues.
 
apdst said:
That's not what I said. I said they haven't been in a prolonged fight, since they lifted the ban in 1993. You're more than welcome to provide some docs that prove me wrong.
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You don't think that their problems with Lebanon and Palestine count as prolonged fights?

:lol:

You know what, never mind, don't bother answering. I'll just wait for those who have served in the IDF to show up and give their opinion on what you've said.
 
Frankly unit cohesion could only be undermined by people who hate gays. Ive seen a flaming homo during basic in the bay a floor beneath us and nobody seemed to mind him much.
 
winston53660 said:
Your anecdotal evidence vs empirical evidence hmmmmm I'll opt for the empirical evidence.
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That's because you have no experience to tell you otherwise. I think you should go to the recruiter's office, in the morning and fix that.



I don't know about the others but you certainly have some homophobic issues.
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Do you realize how insignificant you make your arguments sound, when you say things like that?
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Okay, I've got it. You guys aren't professional enough to see past your personal prejudices with respect to homosexuality. That makes sense.

Too bad the IDF is more professional than our own military, it would've been nice to see that kind of professionalism here at home.
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Well, it comes down to society. Homosexuality is far more accepted in other societies. Hate our military with all your might, but it merely reflects our society.
 
apdst said:
Then, why are you calling the people that do have the experience that we disagree with you, because we're just a buncha homophobes?
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Because he is simple in thought and childish.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
If it isn't homophobia or prejudice, tell me what, exactly, about gays serving openly would cause problems in the military.
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Our culture has alot to do with it. The same reason it's not a good idea for females to serve in combat arms units. heterophobia probably has as much to do with it, as anything else.
 
MSgt said:
Well, it comes down to society. Homosexuality is far more accepted in other societies. Hate our military with all your might, but it merely reflects our society.
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I don't hate the military. I'm disappointed in them.

That said, I will ask the question one more time: is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country?
 
reefedjib said:
There just wouldn't be a problem with gays serving openly, if it wasn't for the prejudice of the senior NCOs.
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A bit more complicated than just blaming senior non-commissioned officers for a society's sin.
 
apdst said:
Our culture has alot to do with it. The same reason it's not a good idea for females to serve in combat arms units. heterophobia probably has as much to do with it, as anything else.
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That sounds like homophobia and prejudice which is so strong that your professionalism fails to suppress it.

If that's not what it is, I need you to explain it. Please. Otherwise, you're just saying the same thing in several different ways while denying that you're saying it.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I don't hate the military. I'm disappointed in them.
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Then, you need to enlist and fix things.

That said, I will ask the question one more time: is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country?
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It has nothing to do with professionalism, or a lack there of. How many times do you have to be told that?
 
SE102 said:
Frankly unit cohesion could only be undermined by people who hate gays. Ive seen a flaming homo during basic in the bay a floor beneath us and nobody seemed to mind him much.
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The court ruling addressed the issue of unit cohesion and rules that in fact DADT undermined unit cohesion. Seriously, people should read the actual ruling that is the topic of discussion.
 
MSgt said:
A bit more complicated than just blaming senior non-commissioned officers for a society's sin.
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Sin? You mean the prejudice? Senior NCOs define the culture and if they say it is not acceptable to give gays a harsh time, that's the way it will be.
 
Redress said:
The court ruling addressed the issue of unit cohesion and rules that in fact DADT undermined unit cohesion. Seriously, people should read the actual ruling that is the topic of discussion.
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And how in the hell could an activist judge know that? Gimme a break!!
 
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