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Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

phattonez said:
Then why should they get paid a living wage when they don't want to work hard? If they do their job at half of what they're able, should they still get a living wage?
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Agian, not suggesting they should. Don't know anyone who is. But people slacking isn't limited to those who make minimum wage. People making much more than a living wage slack off and keep thier jobs. That's an entirely different problem. And nothing prevents an employer from firing anyone who doesn't produce.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, I'm not an expert on present day Monopolies, but I suspect Barry C. Lynn's book, "Cornered: The New Monopoly Capitalism and the Economics of Destruction" might present a few.
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I'm not doing your work. Show me one example without government support.
 
Boo Radley said:
Agian, not suggesting they should. Don't know anyone who is. But people slacking isn't limited to those who make minimum wage. People making much more than a living wage slack off and keep thier jobs. That's an entirely different problem. And nothing prevents an employer from firing anyone who doesn't produce.
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But if they produce enough that they want to keep them around, but they don't produce enough to justify a living wage, why keep them? In fact, it is a loss to the company, so wouldn't forcing a company to pay a minimum wage increase unemployment?
 
phattonez said:
But if they produce enough that they want to keep them around, but they don't produce enough to justify a living wage, why keep them? In fact, it is a loss to the company, so wouldn't forcing a company to pay a minimum wage increase unemployment?
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I have to say I am not following you at all. Are you suggesting we have people we want to keep even though they don't do the work? And that this justifies paying less than a living wage? So why do we pay those slackers in upper income brackets their wage, even though they slack off? I'm just not following you at all.
 
OscarB63 said:
the price of products is also determined by what it costs the producer to make them. artificial minimum wages drive that price higher.
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Where is your proof that the minimum wage affect the price of products?



forum must have a timer on edits so I will simply rephrase here:

"Why should I have to pay more for products I need in order to subsidize some lazy piece of ****'s income?"
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  1. Who says you pay more for products?
  2. Where is your proof that a person is lazy? I would assume if he/she were lazy and not performing up to standard, they would be fired.
 
OscarB63 said:
uaw??? (damn you 10 char...meh)
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Nope. Even unions have aprocedure for firing people who don't produce. You may have to follow that procedure, but there is a way to do it. And most minimum wage workers aren't union, are they? ;)
 
pbrauer said:
? I would assume if he/she were lazy and not performing up to standard, they would be fired.
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the lazy comes in when they fail to make themselves eligible to do anything other than unskilled minimum wage jobs.
 
OscarB63 said:
the lazy comes in when they fail to make themselves eligible to do anything other than unskilled minimum wage jobs.
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And there is nothing other than lazy to account for that?
 
Boo Radley said:
Nope. Even unions have aprocedure for firing people who don't produce. You may have to follow that procedure, but there is a way to do it.
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yeah, too bad that the procedure is so jacked up that most management will just allow the POS to continue rather than go through all the bull**** involved with the firing procedure.
 
phattonez said:
Then why should they get paid a living wage when they don't want to work hard? If they do their job at half of what they're able, should they still get a living wage?
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Not asking you to. I simply took your hypothetical to it's conclusion. I made no claim about monopolies. But off the top of my head, how about Microsoft?
 
OscarB63 said:
yeah, too bad that the procedure is so jacked up that most management will just allow the POS to continue rather than go through all the bull**** involved with the firing procedure.
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That's their choice, as was agreeing to the deal to atart with. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
I have to say I am not following you at all. Are you suggesting we have people we want to keep even though they don't do the work? And that this justifies paying less than a living wage? So why do we pay those slackers in upper income brackets their wage, even though they slack off? I'm just not following you at all.
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Why should a company want to pay an employee more than what he produces for the company?
 
Boo Radley said:
Not asking you to. I simply took your hypothetical to it's conclusion. I made no claim about monopolies. But off the top of my head, how about Microsoft?
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Microsoft was never a monopoly.
 
pbrauer said:
Where is your proof that the minimum wage affect the price of products?
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What happens when you force up the cost of production? You'll have to raise prices, and therefore you will have to produce less to keep a profit (when the price of something goes up, you'll have less people willing to buy it).
 
Boo Radley said:
And there is nothing other than lazy to account for that?
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I don't include the mentally disabled in these type discussions. exceptions should be made for those who just can't do any better.

but yeah, basically. Unless you are mentally retarded the only reason people are stuck in minimum wage jobs is laziness (lack of motivation, drive, desire)

you don't want a career asking you want fries with that? go to school, join the military, learn a trade. If you are a minority there is ZEE ROW excuse not to, what with all the federally funded jobs programs they qualify for. sorry whitey...you got's to work a little harder for it.
 
OscarB63 said:
I don't include the mentally disabled in these type discussions. exceptions should be made for those who just can't do any better.

but yeah, basically. Unless you are mentally retarded the only reason people are stuck in minimum wage jobs is laziness (lack of motivation, drive, desire)

you don't want a career asking you want fries with that? go to school, join the military, learn a trade. If you are a minority there is ZEE ROW excuse not to, what with all the federally funded jobs programs they qualify for. sorry whitey...you got's to work a little harder for it.
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I quite disagree. There are many reasons for taking such a job. heck, even having one dosn't mean you'll stay in it. But People carry a lot of bagage. My father-in-law for example was bright, hard working, but doubted himself a lot. this led to him working such jobs. His fears always got the best of him. But he wasn't lazy at all. And when he died, all his former employers came to praise him.

I would be careful about too over generalizing too much. I'm just saying . . .
 
OscarB63 said:
I don't include the mentally disabled in these type discussions. exceptions should be made for those who just can't do any better.

but yeah, basically. Unless you are mentally retarded the only reason people are stuck in minimum wage jobs is laziness (lack of motivation, drive, desire)

you don't want a career asking you want fries with that? go to school, join the military, learn a trade. If you are a minority there is ZEE ROW excuse not to, what with all the federally funded jobs programs they qualify for. sorry whitey...you got's to work a little harder for it.
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Hamburger University - About McDonald's
 
Boo Radley said:
I quite disagree. There are many reasons for taking such a job. heck, even having one dosn't mean you'll stay in it. But People carry a lot of bagage. My father-in-law for example was bright, hard working, but doubted himself a lot. this led to him working such jobs. His fears always got the best of him. But he wasn't lazy at all. And when he died, all his former employers came to praise him.

I would be careful about too over generalizing too much. I'm just saying . . .
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I would say that your father-in-law's fear and self doubt would be considered a "disability".

IMHO, minimum wage jobs should only be held by people just starting out, students working their way through school, retired people who need a little extra income and those whose mental faculties prevent them from learning to do more.

If you are of normal intellect and you choose to make a career of minimum wage jobs...don't bitch and complain about "deserving" anything.
 
winston53660 said:
Hamburger University - About McDonald's
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as I said, go to school... the HU grads who become managers, etc don't make minimum wage and don't stand behind the counter asking if you want extra napkins.

My daughter-in-law is an assistant manager at one of the local ARBY'S joints. all though she didn't attend hamburger university, she has attended training classes, etc. She makes around $13/hr
 
OscarB63 said:
I would say that your father-in-law's fear and self doubt would be considered a "disability".

IMHO, minimum wage jobs should only be held by people just starting out, students working their way through school, retired people who need a little extra income and those whose mental faculties prevent them from learning to do more.

If you are of normal intellect and you choose to make a career of minimum wage jobs...don't bitch and complain about "deserving" anything.
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And those in an economic resession in need of some income?
 
Boo Radley said:
Do you want me to provide a link to someone who disagrees with you? I'm sure if I look I can find one, many.
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That wouldn't make it a fact. And you still have to consider that a monopoly still has to compete with every other product on the market for that dollar. Apples aren't just competing with apples, they're also competing with oranges, pears, nectarines, etc.
 
Boo Radley said:
And those in an economic resession in need of some income?
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even in an economic recession there are jobs available for qualified individuals. for ****s and giggles I check the local jobs boards a couple of times a week at work and there are literally thousands of non-minimum wage job openings in my area and many of them don't require a degree.
 
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