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Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

phattonez said:
That wouldn't make it a fact. And you still have to consider that a monopoly still has to compete with every other product on the market for that dollar. Apples aren't just competing with apples, they're also competing with oranges, pears, nectarines, etc.
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No, it wouldn't make it fact, but it would put your claim in doubt. And while you may be right about competition, that wouldn't necessairly make it not a monopoly concerning that specific product. Again, I don't claim to be an expert, and have made no claims concerning monopolies, but see what Wlamart is doing, buyinhg and not selling in the long run, and acknowledge that it is possible to put less well off companies under. Think mom and pop groceries stores for example, and maybe even the family farm. Aren't corperate farms threatening the family farm?
 
OscarB63 said:
even in an economic recession there are jobs available for qualified individuals. for ****s and giggles I check the local jobs boards a couple of times a week at work and there are literally thousands of non-minimum wage job openings in my area and many of them don't require a degree.
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You must live in a pretty good area. Try looking at Mason City Iowa want ads. Globe Gazzette. ;)

And how many jobs you have should be meausred against how many are looking.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, it wouldn't make it fact, but it would put your claim in doubt. And while you may be right about competition, that wouldn't necessairly make it not a monopoly concerning that specific product. Again, I don't claim to be an expert, and have made no claims concerning monopolies, but see what Wlamart is doing, buyinhg and not selling in the long run, and acknowledge that it is possible to put less well off companies under. Think mom and pop groceries stores for example, and maybe even the family farm. Aren't corperate farms threatening the family farm?
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So what if they're a monopoly for that specific product? If you look at it that way, EA has a monopoly over Sim City. Rockstar has a monopoly over Grand Theft Auto. Pepsi has a monopoly over monopoly. Anything is a monopoly when you make it that specific, but calling it a monopoly doesn't give you any interesting new insight. Everything competes with everything.

And of course corporate farms are threatening the family farm, and they should be. Corporate farms are much more efficient. Better to free up that labor to do more useful things.
 
phattonez said:
So what if they're a monopoly for that specific product? If you look at it that way, EA has a monopoly over Sim City. Rockstar has a monopoly over Grand Theft Auto. Pepsi has a monopoly over monopoly. Anything is a monopoly when you make it that specific, but calling it a monopoly doesn't give you any interesting new insight. Everything competes with everything.

And of course corporate farms are threatening the family farm, and they should be. Corporate farms are much more efficient. Better to free up that labor to do more useful things.
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A limited supply of necessities competes with nothing, no matter how many organizations the industry consists of.
 
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Boo Radley said:
And how many jobs you have should be meausred against how many are looking.
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well, since many of the same jobs have been on the board for months. obviously there are more jobs than qualified people who are looking. at least in my area.

I have always distrusted unemployment stats because they tend to not take into account the people who are simply not interested in finding a job or those people who refuse to settle for a lesser job even though that is all they are qualified for ( aka the guy with a HS diploma that is "holding out" for a management position)
 
phattonez said:
So what if they're a monopoly for that specific product? If you look at it that way, EA has a monopoly over Sim City. Rockstar has a monopoly over Grand Theft Auto. Pepsi has a monopoly over monopoly. Anything is a monopoly when you make it that specific, but calling it a monopoly doesn't give you any interesting new insight. Everything competes with everything.

And of course corporate farms are threatening the family farm, and they should be. Corporate farms are much more efficient. Better to free up that labor to do more useful things.
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You won't find much support for corporate farms up here, and with good reason. They are not better, and produce an inferior product. We're worse for them.

However that is a another issue.

If the single product is large enough, yes it is a monopoly. And as such, lacks competition in any real way.
 
pbrauer said:
Do you have a point to make? What about the $700 billion it would cost to extend tax cuts to the super wealthy? The debt man!!!
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wouldn't be an issue if we hadn't pissed away all that stimulus $$$ that has created very few jobs in return.
 
Boo Radley said:
You won't find much support for corporate farms up here, and with good reason. They are not better, and produce an inferior product. We're worse for them.
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Yet people buy those products even though they could buy products from a family farm. Apparently to most people the increase in efficiency that results in lower cost is worth it.

If the single product is large enough, yes it is a monopoly. And as such, lacks competition in any real way.
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If microwaves were patented by one company and they priced them at $500,000 each you probably wouldn't get them and would just stick to your oven, wouldn't you?
 
OscarB63 said:
wouldn't be an issue if we hadn't pissed away all that stimulus $$$ that has created very few jobs in return.
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The money for the stimulus is an investment in America, the money spent in Iraq was pissed away
big time.
 
pbrauer said:
The money for the stimulus is an investment in America, the money spent in Iraq was pissed away
big time.
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really? show me some of the returns on this "investment in America" then. At least we built a couple of schools, police stations, power plants, etc in Iraq.
 
OscarB63 said:
really? show me some of the returns on this "investment in America" then. At least we built a couple of schools, police stations, power plants, etc in Iraq.
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OMG, that just plain sick. We lost all those troops and many thousands more have life altering injuries so we can put schools, police stations and power plants in Iraq?:shock::shock::shock:
 
phattonez said:
Yet people buy those products even though they could buy products from a family farm. Apparently to most people the increase in efficiency that results in lower cost is worth it.



If microwaves were patented by one company and they priced them at $500,000 each you probably wouldn't get them and would just stick to your oven, wouldn't you?
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yes, people buy them and those selling make money, but that doesn't mean they are of quality. Mass producing, for example, made money and sold, but often the product was not as good as the artisan used to make. We can find many inferior products that sell, but that doesn't maen we're better for it.

As to your second point, I might have to come somewhat down on a microwave becasue of conventional ovens, but not as far down as I would if other microwave producers were competing with me. If I were the only microwave producer, something cheaper than convertional ovens to make for the most part, instead of the current 50-200 dollars a misrcowave costs, I might be able to get away with a 300-500 dollar charge, even with conventional ovens competing.

The market isn't magic, and I'm not certain of a good price, especially if there is a monopoly on something. ;)
 
OscarB63 said:
really? show me some of the returns on this "investment in America" then. At least we built a couple of schools, police stations, power plants, etc in Iraq.
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City of Los Angeles Department of Public Works employees repair a sidewalk on Aug. 12, 2010. California has been given more than $3.7 billion in stimulus funding to address transportation and infrastructure problems

Read more: Transportation Stimulus: Where Did Federal Funding Go? - TIME
 
Boo Radley said:
City of Los Angeles Department of Public Works employees repair a sidewalk on Aug. 12, 2010. California has been given more than $3.7 billion in stimulus funding to address transportation and infrastructure problems

Read more: Transportation Stimulus: Where Did Federal Funding Go? - TIME
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Umm, apparently you didn't hear about the report by Wendy Greuel. She says "I'm disappointed that we've only created or retained 55 jobs after receiving $111 million." Might want to think again about bringing up Los Angeles as a stimulus success story.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lanowblog+(L.A.+Now)
 
Boo Radley said:
yes, people buy them and those selling make money, but that doesn't mean they are of quality. Mass producing, for example, made money and sold, but often the product was not as good as the artisan used to make. We can find many inferior products that sell, but that doesn't maen we're better for it.
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They quality was not as good, I admit that, but it allowed so many more people to buy it. Why are you second guessing the decisions of people? If people wanted the quality, they would buy it! People buy BMWs instead of Toyotas all the time despite the high price. They see the money spent there as worth it. If the family farms are failing it is because there are too many family farms justified by the current demand for the products they create.

As to your second point, I might have to come somewhat down on a microwave becasue of conventional ovens, but not as far down as I would if other microwave producers were competing with me. If I were the only microwave producer, something cheaper than convertional ovens to make for the most part, instead of the current 50-200 dollars a misrcowave costs, I might be able to get away with a 300-500 dollar charge, even with conventional ovens competing.
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But you would not sell as many as you possibly could. Furthermore, we have no examples of this going on. The best you could do was Microsoft which did not even have exclusive control over operating systems. Another company could have and did come out with competing operating systems. A monopoly of the type that you're talking about? It's impossible without government privilege.
 
phattonez said:
They quality was not as good, I admit that, but it allowed so many more people to buy it. Why are you second guessing the decisions of people? If people wanted the quality, they would buy it! People buy BMWs instead of Toyotas all the time despite the high price. They see the money spent there as worth it. If the family farms are failing it is because there are too many family farms justified by the current demand for the products they create.
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People get second guessed all the time. Not only is our quality less, but the effect on standard of living is less. Take the small town gorcer or shop own who made a good a living, owned property, and was a part of his community. When he went under, and the larger chain stores moved in, we moved more towards a wealthier person who lived elsewhere, wasn't really part of the community, and replaced good income with minimum wage. This doesn't help the community.

My point is, the "market" didn't make us better. From the end of the small shop owner to rent to own to subprime, the market's magic is more shell game con than anything else.

Now, it may be the best thing going. I'm not completely anti market. But, it's problems have led us to something less than complete capitalism.



But you would not sell as many as you possibly could. Furthermore, we have no examples of this going on. The best you could do was Microsoft which did not even have exclusive control over operating systems. Another company could have and did come out with competing operating systems. A monopoly of the type that you're talking about? It's impossible without government privilege.
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Of course I could. I'd be the only game town, and at such a high profit level, I would be even less concerned about number. But I doubt I would see any noticable drop in sales. Nor do I believe I would need the government.
 
phattonez said:
Umm, apparently you didn't hear about the report by Wendy Greuel. She says "I'm disappointed that we've only created or retained 55 jobs after receiving $111 million." Might want to think again about bringing up Los Angeles as a stimulus success story.

L.A. controller says two city departments have yet to create many jobs with federal stimulus money | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times
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Why? That wasn't my point. HE said nothing was built. I took the first article on a search of things built. ;)
 
Grant said:
The "family farm" is being harrassed by the government.

What's happening to America? Can any Leftist rationalize this?

Georgia Man Fined $5000 for Growing Vegetables :
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Well yes, that's a separate issue and I generally don't defend government intrusions. But if the market decides that family farms are not worthwhile, then who am I to second-guess the decisions of others?
 
Boo Radley said:
People get second guessed all the time. Not only is our quality less, but the effect on standard of living is less. Take the small town gorcer or shop own who made a good a living, owned property, and was a part of his community. When he went under, and the larger chain stores moved in, we moved more towards a wealthier person who lived elsewhere, wasn't really part of the community, and replaced good income with minimum wage. This doesn't help the community.

My point is, the "market" didn't make us better. From the end of the small shop owner to rent to own to subprime, the market's magic is more shell game con than anything else.

Now, it may be the best thing going. I'm not completely anti market. But, it's problems have led us to something less than complete capitalism.
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Yes all those things sound nice, but in the end, they need to justify their existence in the market and if they can't then they probably shouldn't exist. If the support from the community is there, they can also fundraise. However, if they're failing it's because the market share for their goods is not that big. So I have no problem with them shrinking. As I said I'm not going to second guess the value judgments of others. In fact, I don't see much of a benefit in terms of food from a family farm and a corporate farm, so I'm probably also one of those evil consumers that aren't supporting the lovely family farms. If they want to exist in the market then they need to justify it to consumers.

Of course I could. I'd be the only game town, and at such a high profit level, I would be even less concerned about number. But I doubt I would see any noticable drop in sales. Nor do I believe I would need the government.
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You would need the government to keep your patent privilege over the technology. It wouldn't last forever until someone else discovered the same technology. Remember that patents and copyrights are not market phenomenon.
 
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