• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

Status
Not open for further replies.
Grant said:
Then why bother mentioning it?

Do you expect people to debate this point?

Have you always had this flair for pointing out the bleeding obvious?
Click to expand...

My flair trumps your flair. OBVIOUSLY. You're trying to make people wear labels that work for you. They are people. Period, full stop. You can yodel about labels all you want, and you just come off as radical and hysterical as any other fringe people.
 
Boo Radley said:
Are you suggesting Christians have never killed? Historically, you would be hard pressed to win that argument. Hell, some kill today in god's name. Even sit in on a Klan prayer breakfest?
Click to expand...

Where did i ever make that "suggestion"?

Stick to what i actually said, please.

Or are you "suggesting" that two wrongs make a right?
 
Grant said:
Is it?

Can you freely enter an airplane now without being searched to the point where you even have to remove your shoes? Millions of people are delayed daily, made to feel uncomfortable, billions of dollars are being spent on heightened security and all as a result of whom?

And you don't feel your freedoms have been curtailed at all?
Click to expand...

Whining. You've been spoiled rotten, living in this country.
 
Grant said:
Where did i ever make that "suggestion"?

Stick to what i actually said, please.

Or are you "suggesting" that two wrongs make a right?
Click to expand...
You're not getting the point yet. You lump all into one concerning Muslims, but ignore that the same wrong lumping can be done with Christians. Silly over generalizations too often lead to poor logic being used. And this poor logic has consequences.
 
Grant said:
Where did i ever make that "suggestion"?

Stick to what i actually said, please.

Or are you "suggesting" that two wrongs make a right?
Click to expand...

You can't bitch about Muslims terrorizing when Christians have been every bit as guilty.
 
Grant said:
You said this.

Would you give up your claimed Islamic religion before you gave up your American citizenship?
Click to expand...
No, no religious person would. Religion would come before a nationality.

But again, the question is flawed. It is assuming I am willing to give up either of those things to begin with.

It has become obvious you use loaded questions and fallacious reasoning to keep a narrow perspective on something that has existed for over 1400 years.
 
Degreez said:
To even begin that you would have to understand what jihad really is. It is not synonymous with physical violence. Fighting is only permitted in Islam as self-defense, when one is being persecuted for being a Muslim (like the early Muslims were persecuted by the Quraish). What constitutes radicalism? Deviating from this norm and using aggressive fighting.

Here is an example of Jihad by striving in goodness for God's cause:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

A man came to the Prophet asking his permission to take part in Jihad. The Prophet asked him, "Are your parents alive?" He replied in the affirmative. The Prophet said to him, "Then exert yourself in their service." - Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 248

A common misconception is that Muslims are commanded to spread Islam with a "convert or die" mentality. This is false, and is easily refuted by this hadith:

It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Masa that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) deputed any of his Companions on a mission, he would say: Give tidings (to the people) ; do not create (in their minds) aversion (towards religion) ; show them leniency and do not be hard upon them. - Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4297
Click to expand...

I'm aware of the meaning of "Jihad" and its many uses. I'm also aware of the many quotes by Mohammad, and not all of them benign. If you want to explore further what this child molester said and did, then we can certainly do that, but it would not further whatever argument you feel you might have..

But I'm more interested in the harm Muslims are doing today rather than their goofy beliefs.
 
Degreez said:
No, no religious person would. Religion would come before a nationality.

But again, the question is flawed. It is assuming I am willing to give up either of those things to begin with.

It has become obvious you use loaded questions and fallacious reasoning to keep a narrow perspective on something that has existed for over 1400 years.
Click to expand...

That's the point i was making, Thanks. The religion always comes first.
 
Grant said:
Is it?

Can you freely enter an airplane now without being searched to the point where you even have to remove your shoes? Millions of people are delayed daily, made to feel uncomfortable, billions of dollars are being spent on heightened security and all as a result of whom?

And you don't feel your freedoms have been curtailed at all?
Click to expand...

That's the government overreacting and overreaching because some people are too scared of terrorists to get on a plane. Plus I don't fly often so I don't care.
 
Boo Radley said:
Are you suggesting Christians have never killed? Historically, you would be hard pressed to win that argument. Hell, some kill today in god's name. Ever sit in on a Klan prayer breakfest?
Click to expand...

There are clear examples in Christian tradition where "innocent" is defined.

A school full of children is the height of "innocent".

Killing is permitted in war and in self defense. Anything else is murder.
 
VanceMack said:
Im wondering...in your vast studies of the middle east...have you been there? We have a lot of 'American Muslims' that live a very different muslim faith than practiced by middle easterners. Wondering what your experience was. many of our soldiers that were muslim were kinda shocked to find out what the 'real' world' was like. Maybe you already have a feel for that...
Click to expand...

I've been to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia numerous times in my life. I've also been to India and Malaysia. One thing you seem to be forgetting is that Muslim Arabs of the Middle East roughly constitute 16% of all Muslims worldwide. Yet they are the ones you hear the most about. How often do you hear of Chinese Muslims being persecuted?
 
Grant said:
But I'm more interested in the harm Muslims are doing today rather than their goofy beliefs.
Click to expand...

No, what you're more interested in is taking people who have hijacked their religion for POLITICAL purposes and lumped them together with the other 99.99999% who practice their religion properly.

What you're not interested in is an actual honest debate.
 
Boo Radley said:
You're not getting the point yet. You lump all into one concerning Muslims, but ignore that the same wrong lumping can be done with Christians. Silly over generalizations too often lead to poor logic being used. And this poor logic has consequences.
Click to expand...

Again.....

Let me ask you a question. Make that a couple of questions. Have you ever attended, however briefly, a church which has ever advocated violence against secularists, abortioniests, gays, or other religious groups? Can you find one in your city? I'm going to bet the answer is no, unless you happen to live in Phelp's town. Wow, one known church in the entire country. A church and a preacher who's position is not supported by any other church, congregation or minister.
 
ric27 said:
There are clear examples in Christian tradition where "innocent" is defined.

A school full of children is the height of "innocent".

Killing is permitted in war and in self defense. Anything else is murder.
Click to expand...

Again, Christains have not always been so pure in their criteria. Not only have they included doctors, but the Klan has often killed actual innocent. And if we go back further, we can trace a ton of evil under the Christian banner.

Again, this is about the continued lumping of all in one when in reality there are differences in practice and sins. Not all Muslims are "radical" anymore than all Christians are.
 
ric27 said:
Again.....

Let me ask you a question. Make that a couple of questions. Have you ever attended, however briefly, a church which has ever advocated violence against secularists, abortioniests, gays, or other religious groups? Can you find one in your city? I'm going to bet the answer is no, unless you happen to live in Phelp's town. Wow, one known church in the entire country. A church and a preacher who's position is not supported by any other church, congregation or minister.
Click to expand...

So, that's kind of an illogical conclusion. You can't find them, therefore they don't exist?
 
ric27 said:
Again.....

Let me ask you a question. Make that a couple of questions. Have you ever attended, however briefly, a church which has ever advocated violence against secularists, abortioniests, gays, or other religious groups? Can you find one in your city? I'm going to bet the answer is no, unless you happen to live in Phelp's town. Wow, one known church in the entire country. A church and a preacher who's position is not supported by any other church, congregation or minister.
Click to expand...

You would lose your bet. Admittedly not many, but I can take you right now to one where it is condoned if not advocated. However, it only takes one to make the point. And like i said, the Klan, whihc is still alive here in America, does hold prayer breakfasts and preach chritianity. Should I link all Christians to the klan?
 
Is the name Fred Phelps ringing any bells?
 
Degreez said:
I've been to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia numerous times in my life. I've also been to India and Malaysia. One thing you seem to be forgetting is that Muslim Arabs of the Middle East roughly constitute 16% of all Muslims worldwide. Yet they are the ones you hear the most about. How often do you hear of Chinese Muslims being persecuted?
Click to expand...

How often do you hear ANYTHING factual about Chinese ANYTHING?

Even our own Laila admits that she would likely be stoned (and not the good kind of stoned) as a woman in most middle eastern muslim countries and would not enjoy the freedom to be both muslim and british as she now does if the rules in place in many of those countries were the law of the land in Engalnd .

But your point while being VALID also REINFORCES mine. There are vast differences in the muslim faith and practice thereof. So its kinda silly for ANYONE to stand up and say "THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS BELIEVE", and "I know because Im a muslim and know more than you." Because the reality is that there are numerous sects within the muslim faith that so violently disagree with each other that they kill eachnother over those beliefs.
 
VanceMack said:
But your point while being VALID also REINFORCES mine. There are vast differences in the muslim faith and practice thereof. So its kinda silly for ANYONE to stand up and say "THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS BELIEVE", and "I know because Im a muslim and know more than you." Because the reality is that there are numerous sects within the muslim faith that so violently disagree with each other that they kill eachnother over those beliefs.
Click to expand...

Laila made that point (the last sentence) a week or so ago.

And I'm on the same page as you, because most of the people I'm squabbling with think a muslim is a muslim is a muslim, - and you're saying, no they are not. And I'm saying no. They are not.
 
BDBoop said:
Laila made that point (the last sentence) a week or so ago.

And I'm on the same page as you, because most of the people I'm squabbling with think a muslim is a muslim is a muslim, - and you're saying, no they are not. And I'm saying no. They are not.
Click to expand...

I know people tend to lump everyone together. Not all (or even colse to a majority) are terrorist sympathizers, let alone terrorists. There is no reason to over sell or downplay the idea...let it be...it is what it is. SOME are...and those SOME need to be destroyed.

I am a Christian. Im also a follower of Thich Nacht Hahn and find peace in many of the buddhist ideals of peace, oneness, intention, and mindfullness. I am also fallible. I am extremely kind and loving and protective to people I care about. I work with many of 'the least of these my brethren" and love them and care for them as well. Im also an occasional asshole and have a violent tendency when the situation calls for it. Ive been to war on several occasions. I'm not great at that whole 'turn the other cheek' thing. I would be a lousy model for anyone to judge Christianity, the teachings of the Bhudda, or in fact any other human being.

Oh...and apparently since I dont agree with everything 'real' libertarians believe Im not a very good example of that either. Damned independent thought...
 
VanceMack said:
I am a Christian. Im also a follower of Thich Nacht Hahn and find peace in many of the buddhist ideals of peace, oneness, intention, and mindfullness. I am also fallible. I am extremely kind and loving and protective to people I care about. I work with many of 'the least of these my brethren" and love them and care for them as well. Im also an occasional asshole and have a violent tendency when the situation calls for it. Ive been to war on several occasions. I'm not great at that whole 'turn the other cheek' thing. I would be a lousy model for anyone to judge Christianity, the teachings of the Bhudda, or in fact any other human being.

Oh...and apparently since I dont agree with everything 'real' libertarians believe Im not a very good example of that either. Damned independent thought...
Click to expand...

/me swats errant damn independent thought

Your post would make a great "this is me" thread. I need to do some reading on buddhism because I know my heart is pretty much hanging there, but I need specifics to build on.
 
BDBoop said:
/me swats errant damn independent thought

Your post would make a great "this is me" thread. I need to do some reading on buddhism because I know my heart is pretty much hanging there, but I need specifics to build on.
Click to expand...

I could never call myself a Buhddist...it would be an insult to Buhddists. But i do love the mindfullness and serenity. I recommend listening to Thich Naht Hahn as a good intro into some healthy meditation.
 
Boo Radley. if Christians are committing terrorism against innocent people all over the world, as well as murdering each other and their children, then they should be condemned for it.

But in fact it is Muslims who are doing this, not Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and so on.
Don't waste your time,or mine, with all these silly red herrings.
 
Degreez said:
I've been to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia numerous times in my life. I've also been to India and Malaysia. One thing you seem to be forgetting is that Muslim Arabs of the Middle East roughly constitute 16% of all Muslims worldwide. Yet they are the ones you hear the most about. How often do you hear of Chinese Muslims being persecuted?
Click to expand...

Oh I hear Muslims complaining all the time, whether its about racial profiling, not being allowed their full body gear, not caring if they offend where they build a mosque, defiling the name of their prophet, and so on. And their response to these "discrimination" are more murders of innocent people. They are whining cowards of the first order.

I hear of Muslims committing more terrorism in China, just as they do, or attempt to do, in most every other country in the world. You might be aware of it also.

Unless of course, your burka is intended to cover your eyes and ears from any sort of outside news or influences as some sort of attempt see no muslim evil, hear no muslim evil and speak of no muslim evil.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom