Fire at Tenn. Mosque Building Site Ruled Arson

TennesseeRain said:

Now you've gone and done it - you've interrupted a perfectly good spittle spewing frothing at the mouth rant with pesky facts. That just won't do, Missy.

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Talk to Dan, he's the one ranting about the 1960's church burnings.

Ikari said:

Why? I bet there are many things which would get you to speak of that manner. It is entirely possible this was a terrorist act. In fact, given the conditions of the country currently, I would say pretty likely. Regardless, it is to be investigated, hopefully those who were responsible will be found and brought before the courts.

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It's also true that people rush to assume it was anti-islamic bigotry, and the over the top "This reminds me of the 1960's church burnings" crap is uncalled for. IF IT IS some loon, then it's a lemantable act of hate, glad no one died. Now, if this starts happening in multiple places, THEN you an start making comparisons.

I'll play Devil's Advocate for just a moment...

There are a 1,000 ways a fire could have broke out at this construction site. Some plausable reasons:

Short circuit in wiring.

Someone left a welding torch on.

People toss a smoldering cigerette near rags soaked in flamable chemicals.

Or from the article, "Gas was poured over the equipment to start the fire."

Now, who could have done this and why?

Well, the arsonist could have been attempting to collect insurance money, except construction hadn't even begun at the site yet. The construction crew had just broke ground and begun digging days ago. The only thing that was set ablaze was construction equipment which may have been leased or could have been on loan by someone with a kind heart and just wanted to help.

What else do we know about this site?

According to news reports, this site has also been in the public spotlight recently along w/the NYC community center project near Ground Zero. Both projects have come under heavy public outrage. While there apparently have been small acts of vandalism (presumably at the site since the article clearly illustrates there is a very strong voice of opposition to the construction of the Islamic Community Center planned to be built there), a spokesman for site said, "We unfortunately did not experience hostilities for the 30 years we've been here and have only seen the hostility since approval of the site plan for the new center".

From the article, people torn down the sign that was placed on the construction grounds depicting it as the future site of the ICC. Protesters were quoted as saying, "they don't want them [Muslims] here," for fear the mosque would be, "...turned into a terrorist training ground for Muslim militants bent on overthrowing the U.S. government".

Thirty years of non-violence, then all of a sudden WHAM!!!

Is it possible that someone took their rage out at the site and this is exactly as it appears to be - a hate crime? What possible motive would there be to burning a back-hoe?

Catz Part Deux said:

Why shouldn't they? The 2nd amendment applies to muslims-Americans, too.

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Let's see, the protesters of the mosque are saying that they're afraid that the new building is going to be a training ground for terrorists bent on overthrowing America. Then the Muslims who will go to this mosque begin defending their ground and stockpiling arms.

What do you think the protesters of this mosque would say?

Let's be honest here. It would likely only fuel greater protests. It wouldn't win over those who are on the fence or neutral about the mosque. And I can totally see people saying that they set it themselves so they could justify arming themselves.

MrVicchio said:

It's also true that people rush to assume it was anti-islamic bigotry, and the over the top "This reminds me of the 1960's church burnings" crap is uncalled for. IF IT IS some loon, then it's a lemantable act of hate, glad no one died. Now, if this starts happening in multiple places, THEN you an start making comparisons.

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It's funny how some people aren't willing to suspend judgment that building an Islamic community center a couple blocks from ground zero is a sign of radical Islam encroaching on America, but they demand that people suspend judgment that arson on a mosque in a community that has become polarized against Islam is an act of terror against Muslims.

Ikari said:

Why? I bet there are many things which would get you to speak of that manner. It is entirely possible this was a terrorist act. In fact, given the conditions of the country currently, I would say pretty likely. Regardless, it is to be investigated, hopefully those who were responsible will be found and brought before the courts.

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So, just asking....Is it only American's that can be generalized as terrorists?


j-mac

danarhea said:

You know, this is similar to something that happened in Texas back in the 1960's. A black man was chained, weighted down, and then thrown into a lake. When those who did it were caught they said "We didn't do it. It's just like a nigger. Steal more chains than they can swim with". Your post, seeking to deny the obvious, reminded me of that story.

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Yeah, it's obvious that Hitler would have burned a few more jews had he known about Muslims building a mosque.

It's a shame this happened, and I hope they catch whoever did it. That's what should be said about pretty much every isolated incident of violence, but it just so happens that a liberal firebombing a liberal congressman's office or a conservative (supposedly) burning a mosque construction site offers the partisans another chance to draw wildly sweeping conclusions.

TennesseeRain said:

I don't believe that you actually believe that. First of all, there is no insurance "reward" - the company's obligation, under tort law, would be to put the insured back to where they were before the fire occurred. In other words, they'd get exactly the cost of the damage - no profit. So much for your stupid theory.

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There's a big difference between tort law and insurance payouts. I'm obviously not saying it's the case here, but there are many situations where building owners find it profitable to burn their own property. It's one of the most common causes of arson.

RightinNYC said:

It's a shame this happened, and I hope they catch whoever did it. That's what should be said about pretty much every isolated incident of violence, but it just so happens that a liberal firebombing a liberal congressman's office or a conservative (supposedly) burning a mosque construction site offers the partisans another chance to draw wildly sweeping conclusions.




There's a big difference between tort law and insurance payouts. I'm obviously not saying it's the case here, but there are many situations where building owners find it profitable to burn their own property. It's one of the most common causes of arson.

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Look: I don't want this to be about "conservatives". I'm just saying the growing anti-Muslim rancor is creating a potentially dangerous atmosphere. I mean, the former Speaker of the House said: "Islam is a very evil and wicked religion". I know very well, that not all conservatives agree with that sentiment about Muslims in America.

And I would join you in skepticism, but since this isn't about a completed building and instead about a basically empty site with construction equipment on it, I don't see any way anyone could profit from a self-set fire at this point. Nor would they profit from painting "not welcome" on the sign on the construction site.

FilmFestGuy said:

Look: I don't want this to be about "conservatives". I'm just saying the growing anti-Muslim rancor is creating a potentially dangerous atmosphere. I mean, the former Speaker of the House said: "Islam is a very evil and wicked religion". I know very well, that not all conservatives agree with that sentiment about Muslims in America.

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"I don't want this to be about conservatives, but here's the reason why a lot of conservatives are to blame for this."

And I would join you in skepticism, but since this isn't about a completed building and instead about a basically empty site with construction equipment on it, I don't see any way anyone could profit from a self-set fire at this point. Nor would they profit from painting "not welcome" on the sign on the construction site.

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From one week ago:

Amid national and local debate, the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro broke ground on its future Veals Road home last week. At the same time, the center has issued an "urgent" plea for donations from the Muslim community nationwide to help build the facility before efforts to derail the project can succeed.

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Center solicits Muslims' financial aid to complete Murfreesboro mosque | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

I would assume that donations will go up rather than down as a result of this incident.

For those who want to help, there's a donation button at their website.

Aunt Spiker said:

:shrug: People don't need anyone on TV with any views to do arson.

Arson is a different psychological act - there's often a personal thrill that goes along with it that's not fostered by 'tv rhetoric'

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Howevrer, this has to do with the target more than arson. Sure, tere are people who burn because they like things to burn. however, those who target specific groups aren't necessarily part of the population you're speaking to.

j-mac said:

So, just asking....Is it only American's that can be generalized as terrorists?


j-mac

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Seems like an odd question as her comments don't singlr out Americans in that way. is this like a person with poor self exteem thinking all comments areattacking them personally?

FilmFestGuy said:

Let's see, the protesters of the mosque are saying that they're afraid that the new building is going to be a training ground for terrorists bent on overthrowing America. Then the Muslims who will go to this mosque begin defending their ground and stockpiling arms.

What do you think the protesters of this mosque would say?

Let's be honest here. It would likely only fuel greater protests. It wouldn't win over those who are on the fence or neutral about the mosque. And I can totally see people saying that they set it themselves so they could justify arming themselves.

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Two thoughts: first, speculation without substantiation is stupid.

Second, American Muslims already have a constitutional right to arm themselves, so they don't have to justify it.

This is grasping at straws. There is no evidence, whatsoever, that this arson was committed for the purpose of insurance or donations. It's just as sweeping and wild a conclusion as any other to even suggest it. What is clear is that anti Islamic furor has reached a high in this country, and that is why it has become so easy for people to quickly draw the conclusion that this was an act of anti Islamic violence.

Murfreesboro, Tenn., Temecula, Calif., Sheboygan, Wis., etc. All are places that have erupted in protests against the building of new mosques since people began protesting the Islamic Community Center in New York. Exactly how far from Ground Zero do you have to be to peacefully build a mosque in this country?

When America became a land where people wanted to trample on other people's freedom of religion and became so afraid of Islam that they sought to push it out of their community by denying people a place to worship, that is when the terrorists really won. The burning down of a mosque is nothing compared to the travesty of what these protests have done to America's reputation as a land of freedom.

RightinNYC said:

I would assume that donations will go up rather than down as a result of this incident.

For those who want to help, there's a donation button at their website.

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I would NOT give a red cent.....

I decided to donate money to Fisher House instead. At least until I can vett an appropriate charity.

For those who aren't familiar with Mr. Fisher or the organization he founded, let me tell you about them.

Zach Fisher made a fortune as a construction contracter in New York. During WW2, he was denied the opportunity to serve for some health issue. His future wife was a USO girl during the war. Having amassed quite a fortune in the years following the war, Mr. Fisher decided he should give some of it back to his country, a Nation he loved dearly. He had tremendous respect for those men and women who sacrificed many things to serve America, and he wanted his gift to be beneficial to those who did the most to ensure his freedom. So, he created the Fisher House Foundation.

The Fisher House Foundation is a non-profit charity, which constructs homes near military medical facilities, for use by sick or injured servicemen, retirees, and the families of these veterans. The homes are quite nice and usually consist of around 10 or 12 private bedrooms, a kitchen, dining room, a family-style room, and a sitting room. They are staffed full-time by a manager who oversees the day-to-day operations. They also rely on volunteers to donate food or time. These volunteers cook for the guests, drive them to the hospital, the commisary, PX/BX, or to other errands, and they also just come in to visit with the guests, so that they don't feel lonely during their stay.

ric27 said:

I would NOT give a red cent.....

I decided to donate money to Fisher House instead. At least until I can vett an appropriate charity.

For those who aren't familiar with Mr. Fisher or the organization he founded, let me tell you about them.

Zach Fisher made a fortune as a construction contracter in New York. During WW2, he was denied the opportunity to serve for some health issue. His future wife was a USO girl during the war. Having amassed quite a fortune in the years following the war, Mr. Fisher decided he should give some of it back to his country, a Nation he loved dearly. He had tremendous respect for those men and women who sacrificed many things to serve America, and he wanted his gift to be beneficial to those who did the most to ensure his freedom. So, he created the Fisher House Foundation.

The Fisher House Foundation is a non-profit charity, which constructs homes near military medical facilities, for use by sick or injured servicemen, retirees, and the families of these veterans. The homes are quite nice and usually consist of around 10 or 12 private bedrooms, a kitchen, dining room, a family-style room, and a sitting room. They are staffed full-time by a manager who oversees the day-to-day operations. They also rely on volunteers to donate food or time. These volunteers cook for the guests, drive them to the hospital, the commisary, PX/BX, or to other errands, and they also just come in to visit with the guests, so that they don't feel lonely during their stay.

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Heart warming and all...

You could have denounced what could quite possibly be an act of violence against Muslim Americans.

Or you could have left it at I'm not donating cause I don't like them and I'm glad it got burned down.

CriticalThought said:

This is grasping at straws. There is no evidence, whatsoever, that this arson was committed for the purpose of insurance or donations. It's just as sweeping and wild a conclusion as any other to even suggest it.

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Which is why I made it exceedingly clear that I wasn't saying that that was the cause.

What is clear is that anti Islamic furor has reached a high in this country, and that is why it has become so easy for people to quickly draw the conclusion that this was an act of anti Islamic violence.

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What's your point? Because it's easy to conclude that this was anti-Muslim violence, it's reasonable to get riled up and make sweeping statements about various political groups?

Murfreesboro, Tenn., Temecula, Calif., Sheboygan, Wis., etc. All are places that have erupted in protests against the building of new mosques since people began protesting the Islamic Community Center in New York. Exactly how far from Ground Zerio do you have to be to peacefully build a mosque in this country?

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There are a couple thousand spread throughout the US and many more being built. Seems like the vast majority of them are getting along just fine.

Jetboogieman said:

Heart warming and all...

You could have denounced what could quite possibly be an act of violence against Muslim Americans.

Or you could have left it at I'm not donating cause I don't like them and I'm glad it got burned down.

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Keep assuming. The purpose of an investigation is to determine whether sufficient evidence exists to file criminal charges against.....FILL IN THE BLANK, dude

Erod said:

And yet, Stephen Ayers was a hero to your ilk.

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Please don't be an asshole and pretend to speak for me. Ayers was a criminal, who should have gone to prison. Those are MY words. Now go put words in somebody else's mouth.

RightinNYC said:

"I don't want this to be about conservatives, but here's the reason why a lot of conservatives are to blame for this."



From one week ago:



Center solicits Muslims' financial aid to complete Murfreesboro mosque | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

I would assume that donations will go up rather than down as a result of this incident.

For those who want to help, there's a donation button at their website.

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No. Damn it. Only if you think all conservatives think all muslims are evil can you accuse me of thinking that all or even most conservatives are to blame for this.

The only person to blame is the person who did it.

Those who would dehumanize Muslims with their rhetoric, however, should do a little soul-searching.

Your theory could be true - but given the rancor around here it just seems highly unlikely.

Here's an article about how this non-controversy became one here.

6th district candidates answer mosque challenge - WKRN, Nashville, Tennessee News, Weather, and Sports |

What's upsetting, is that this feels (not the fire, the rancor) all as if it's orchestrated to try to collect a few extra votes. One candidate came out against it and that drove everyone to have to be against it.

I am pleased to see that Grace Baptist Church (which is on adjoining ground) has invited members of the mosque to a candlelight inter-faith vigil tonight.

Perhaps the actions of one douchebag can bring a community back together after it was so cynically torn apart.

I will say what a few here have said and hope those responsible are caught. Although I will add I will be highly disappointed if the arsonist was trying to pin this on another group.

MrVicchio said:

It's also true that people rush to assume it was anti-islamic bigotry, and the over the top "This reminds me of the 1960's church burnings" crap is uncalled for. IF IT IS some loon, then it's a lemantable act of hate, glad no one died. Now, if this starts happening in multiple places, THEN you an start making comparisons.

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I don't think folks will be able to hide behind "it was just an accident" or "someone set the fire to claim the property damage insurance" for much longer. The anti-Muslim/Islam hate isn't just confined to the NYC or Murfreesboro, TN ICC's anymore. Read this article from YahooNews.com and you'll see why. To deny it and make any other claim is not only foolish, but absord!

FilmFestGuy said:

No. Damn it. Only if you think all conservatives think all muslims are evil can you accuse me of thinking that all or even most conservatives are to blame for this.

The only person to blame is the person who did it.

Those who would dehumanize Muslims with their rhetoric, however, should do a little soul-searching.

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You don't see how you're doing the exact same thing you're arguing against?

"The only person to blame is the person who did it, but those who would 'dehumanize Muslims with their rhetoric' (i.e. have a very different view on the mosque or Islam than I do) should 'do a little soul searching' (i.e. should feel partly responsible for what their rhetoric has led to.)"

Gussying up the language doesn't change the meaning.

Your theory could be true - but given the rancor around here it just seems highly unlikely.

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For the third time, it's not a theory. I'm simply responding to the claims that there would be no possible motivation for this incident other than anti-Islamic bigotry. As always, there are several possible motivations, and as always, the simplest (someone opposed to the mosque did it) seems most likely.

Objective Voice said:

I don't think folks will be able to hide behind "it was just an accident" or "someone set the fire to claim the property damage insurance" for much longer. The anti-Muslim/Islam hate isn't just confined to the NYC or Murfreesboro, TN ICC's anymore. Read this article from YahooNews.com and you'll see why. To deny it and make any other claim is not only foolish, but absord!

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This argument doesn't make any sense. "There are a few other isolated instances where people have done illegal or otherwise offensive **** in response to a proposed mosque. That means that it would be absurd to point out that any other incident could possibly be the product of anything other than hatred."

Boo Radley said:

Seems like an odd question as her comments don't singlr out Americans in that way. is this like a person with poor self exteem thinking all comments areattacking them personally?

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Well, I never said that I was personally being attacked, but since you bring up the context of what was typed let's look at it shall we?

The thing that caught my eye was this statement by Ikari

It is entirely possible this was a terrorist act.

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Now if it stopped there I would agree with you Joe that you can not take that as anything other than a general statement. But, when you add the context of the very next sentence

In fact, given the conditions of the country currently, I would say pretty likely.

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The conditions of the country currently. Hmmm....What can I infer about that added statement. Well, go back to any of the threads dealing with the GZ Mosque, and Ikari makes it pretty clear that Muslims are not terrorist related to him. In fact, in the many back and forth's that we have engaged in about that, he considers the American's opposing that structure as the ones committing terrorism against the Muslims trying to build it there.

In this I believe he is speaking about the political right in this country as being not only the ones responsible, even though he has absolutely zero evidence of this, but that he sees it easier to condemn his own countrymen as terrorists, while at the same time refusing to call out those who are actually committing these acts around the world as terrorists because he wouldn't offend them, but us? Well, that's another story.


j-mac

Objective Voice said:

I don't think folks will be able to hide behind "it was just an accident" or "someone set the fire to claim the property damage insurance" for much longer. The anti-Muslim/Islam hate isn't just confined to the NYC or Murfreesboro, TN ICC's anymore. Read this article from YahooNews.com and you'll see why. To deny it and make any other claim is not only foolish, but absord!

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Wow, a far left perspective....I am shocked that the reporting is negative from the former Daily Beast editorial staff member.


j-mac