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Beck, Palin Stress 'Honor' at Rally

apdst said:
I have the right for the government not to legislate my job out of existance.
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... no such thing in the constitution my dude.
 
Redress said:
What basic rights have been taken away? What values have we turned our backs on?
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well as far as our most basic of rights, not really any yet; though you could make an argument for the health insurance mandate and repeated efforts to sidle in 'fair' speach measures (though they have thankfully thus far failed).

as for our founding values that we have left behind, the list is long; starting with Federalism and moving into the assumptions (limited government, individual responsibility, etc) that it includes. we have given up personal, local, and state autonomy in return for suckling at the teat of the federal government. we hate that congress overspends, but gosh we love the pork project our congresscritter brings home. that's dishonorable.
 
cpwill said:
well as far as our most basic of rights, not really any yet; though you could make an argument for the health insurance mandate and repeated efforts to sidle in 'fair' speach measures (though they have thankfully thus far failed).

as for our founding values that we have left behind, the list is long; starting with Federalism and moving into the assumptions (limited government, individual responsibility, etc) that it includes. we have given up personal, local, and state autonomy in return for suckling at the teat of the federal government. we hate that congress overspends, but gosh we love the pork project our congresscritter brings home. that's dishonorable.
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.... so no basic rights have been taken away from you because most people in this country are supportive of attempts to qwell free speech in the same numbers that supporters of segregation exist. No good sir. You're simply filling the room with hyperbole.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
What crock of ****. You really believe all this crap? I've got plenty of honor in the way I live and the fact that I've served my country. I don't need two dumbasses telling me I need to get it again, especially two overpaid money grubbing nitwits.

BTW I'm not really seeing the numbers you are. I guess it's a subjective thing.
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Did you bother to watch it?
The money grubbers donated over 5.5 million dollars to SOWF.
Thank you for your service.
 
apdst said:
I have the right for the government not to legislate my job out of existance.
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Please show me where that right is written down.
 
cpwill said:
well as far as our most basic of rights, not really any yet; though you could make an argument for the health insurance mandate and repeated efforts to sidle in 'fair' speach measures (though they have thankfully thus far failed).
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So basically, our basic rights have not been taken away.

as for our founding values that we have left behind, the list is long; starting with Federalism and moving into the assumptions (limited government, individual responsibility, etc) that it includes. we have given up personal, local, and state autonomy in return for suckling at the teat of the federal government. we hate that congress overspends, but gosh we love the pork project our congresscritter brings home. that's dishonorable.
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This is one huge talking point with zero actual content. Strong on rhetoric, short on content or originality.
 
Hatuey said:
.... so no basic rights have been taken away from you because most people in this country are supportive of attempts to qwell free speech in the same numbers that supporters of segregation exist. No good sir. You're simply filling the room with hyperbole.
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um. what part of "well as far as our most basic of rights, not really any" did you have reading comprehension issues with?
 
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Redress said:
So basically, our basic rights have not been taken away.
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by this administration greater than others? no, as far as our basic rights are concerned not really; though in the case of property rights they are certainly being constrained.

This is one huge talking point with zero actual content. Strong on rhetoric, short on content or originality.
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ah. is that what you say when you have no response?
 
Redress said:
Please show me where that right is written down.
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:D i thought we were ruled by a living constitution where we were discovering new rights all the time? didn't some judge just find a new right to homosexual marriage?

or are we only literalist in cases where it matches our preferences?
 
apdst said:
Show me where the Constitution gives the government the authority to kill jobs.
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I have a question. What would have happened if all the oilmen just refused to obey the moratorium?
It really did feel like it was unconstitutional to shut down ones that had nothing to do with BP. It also didn't seem right that BP paid wages for guys Obama put out of work.
 
Redress said:
Please show me where that right is written down.
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Right here, in the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.
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Is this not the document that layed out our most basic values?
 
cpwill said:
by this administration greater than others? no, as far as our basic rights are concerned not really; though in the case of property rights they are certainly being constrained.



ah. is that what you say when you have no response?
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No, it's what I say to rhetoric. Got some specifics, we can talk, Repeat a standard talking point, why bother.
 
Redress said:
So you have a basic right to have the job of your choice? This is what you are saying?
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You prefer a government to tell you what job you will do?
Maybe a government that pays for your college but you must take the courses they say? Then you work for them?
 
cpwill said:
:D i thought we were ruled by a living constitution where we were discovering new rights all the time? didn't some judge just find a new right to homosexual marriage?

or are we only literalist in cases where it matches our preferences?
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No, a judge found that banning gay marriage violated the constitution. That is a large difference.

All case law involving the constitution is based on the constitution. You are right, the interpretation does change over time, but the words don't. He should be able to point where it says in the constitution something that can be at least somewhat interpreted as giving him that right. He should be able to, if not expressly given by the constitution, point to case law saying that it is implied by the constitution. That is "written down".
 
apdst said:
Right here, in the Declaration of Independence:



Is this not the document that layed out our most basic values?
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1) The Declaration of Independence is not the law of the land.

2) It does not say you have a basic right to the job of your choice.
 
Barbbtx said:
I have a question. What would have happened if all the oilmen just refused to obey the moratorium?
It really did feel like it was unconstitutional to shut down ones that had nothing to do with BP. It also didn't seem right that BP paid wages for guys Obama put out of work.
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I've said all along that they should just go ahead and drill as a means of civil disobedience. There would be serious blowback from the government, but in the long run, I think that blowback would end up making the government look like assholes.
 
Redress said:
1) The Declaration of Independence is not the law of the land.

2) It does not say you have a basic right to the job of your choice.
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In my pursuit of happiness, I have the right to work where ever I please. The government can't tell me where I have to work, or what trade I have to work in. If it the government has that authority, I would love to see it.
 
apdst said:
In my pursuit of happiness, I have the right to work where ever I please. The government can't tell me where I have to work, or what trade I have to work in. If it the government has that authority, I would love to see it.
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The government is not trying to tell you where you have to work, or what trade you have to work in. You do not have a right to work where ever you please. If I want to work in my apartment, the government does not have to make a job for me there.
 
apdst said:
In my pursuit of happiness, I have the right to work where ever I please. The government can't tell me where I have to work, or what trade I have to work in. If it the government has that authority, I would love to see it.
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So you can be a drug dealer?
 
Redress said:
The government is not trying to tell you where you have to work, or what trade you have to work in. You do not have a right to work where ever you please. If I want to work in my apartment, the government does not have to make a job for me there.
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I never said anything about making jobs. I'm saying that the government doesn't have the authority to kill jobs; certainly not for political reasons.
 
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