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Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

Conservative said:
Haven't paid much attention over the last year, have you. Govt. isn't the answer, never has been the answer and in fact is the problem as evidenced by the results generated by Obama. It is the Obama agenda, thus the govt. that has generated these results. We have a private sector economy that is being destroyed by the big govt. Obama agenda and that is reality.
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You keep complaining that the government hasn't fix everything yet, and that is equal to a demand that government has to fix it. So, tell me how.
 
pbrauer said:
Get real, the private sector was destroyed by George W. Bush, well BEFORE Obama became president. Deregulation of the big banks and Wall Street. And borrowing $ billions from China. Cheney once said deficits don't matter...
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LOL, yep, we hire Congressional Representatives to allow the President to act like a King and destroy the economy but only when a Republican is in the WH? Do you realize how foolish that argument is? Democrats controlled the Congress from 2007 to the Present and thus the legislative agenda. Bush couldn't do a thing without their support.

Seems to me that the Obama cult needs a good lesson in civics. Think we are borrowing more or less from China now than during the Bush years? For someone that seems to care about deficits you totally ignore the Obama deficits and the fact that we still don't have a 2011 budget.

Democrats had 4 years to improve the economy and the results are there for all to see. There is a reason that the Republicans are going to win in November and only the truly blind cannot see it.
 
Boo Radley said:
You keep complaining that the government hasn't fix everything yet, and that is equal to a demand that government has to fix it. So, tell me how.
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I have told you how, cut spending, get out of the way of private business and unleash the entreprenuerial spirit of the American people. Stop with the social engineering and massive expansion of govt.
 
Stimulus creates jobs? Lol, the broken window fallacy is an integral part of folk economics.
 
Conservative said:
I have told you how, cut spending, get out of the way of private business and unleash the entreprenuerial spirit of the American people. Stop with the social engineering and massive expansion of govt.
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I argue for cutting spending, but nothing is preventing business from moving foward. nothing. Unless you count a lack of people spending. And no one is social engineering. Anywhere.

Really, the government can't fix all probllems. You need to stop looking for them too.

:neener
 
Boo Radley said:
I argue for cutting spending, but nothing is preventing business from moving foward. nothing. Unless you count a lack of people spending. And no one is social engineering. Anywhere.

Really, the government can't fix all probllems. You need to stop looking for them too.

:neener
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80% of the business in this country is small business and that is the engine that isn't investing or growing due to the uncertainties of the future and costs associated with the Obama agenda. Obviously you never have run a business and thus haven't a clue as to the costs associated. No small business is going to grow in this uncertain market because it is their money they are investing, something you don't seem to understand.

The govt. doesn't solve problems, it creates them. The way to improving the economy is for the govt. to get out of the way.
 
Conservative said:
80% of the business in this country is small business and that is the engine that isn't investing or growing due to the uncertainties of the future and costs associated with the Obama agenda. Obviously you never have run a business and thus haven't a clue as to the costs associated. No small business is going to grow in this uncertain market because it is their money they are investing, something you don't seem to understand.

The govt. doesn't solve problems, it creates them. The way to improving the economy is for the govt. to get out of the way.
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Your conclusion is wrong. They invest when people are buying. Taxes have nothing to do with it.

And if you believe government has nothing to do with it, quit calling on them to fix it. Quit complaining.

:neener
 
Conservative said:
80% of the business in this country is small business and that is the engine that isn't investing or growing due to the uncertainties of the future and costs associated with the Obama agenda. Obviously you never have run a business and thus haven't a clue as to the costs associated. No small business is going to grow in this uncertain market because it is their money they are investing, something you don't seem to understand.

The govt. doesn't solve problems, it creates them. The way to improving the economy is for the govt. to get out of the way.
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that's simply not true. if there were a demand for their products, they would find a way to meet that demand. as long as CONSUMERS aren't spending, demand is down.

are you seriously trying to say a business would not be interested in growth because of healthcare? do you really think a business wouldn't hire an extra person, or buy an additional piece of equipment, and forego additional revenue, all because of health care? doubtful.
 
Boo Radley said:
Your conclusion is wrong. They invest when people are buying. Taxes have nothing to do with it.

And if you believe government has nothing to do with it, quit calling on them to fix it. Quit complaining.

:neener
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When you have the threat of new regulations and new taxes, you aren't sure what your costs are going to be in the future. How can you invest when you can't even venture as guess as to what future costs will be like?
 
liblady said:
that's simply not true. if there were a demand for their products, they would find a way to meet that demand. as long as CONSUMERS aren't spending, demand is down.

are you seriously trying to say a business would not be interested in growth because of healthcare? do you really think a business wouldn't hire an extra person, or buy an additional piece of equipment, and forego additional revenue, all because of health care? doubtful.
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Because of cap and trade? Becausae of threats of monetary inflation? Because of threats of new regulations? Seem like good reasons to me.

And the healthcare bill has a huge cost associated with it. Problem is, we can't predict what that cost is.
 
Boo Radley said:
Your conclusion is wrong. They invest when people are buying. Taxes have nothing to do with it.

And if you believe government has nothing to do with it, quit calling on them to fix it. Quit complaining.

:neener
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You are absolutely right, higher taxes promote more personal income and thus more spending, LOL. The only way the govt. can solve any problem is to allow people to keep more of their income and quit calling tax cuts a cost.

Why is it personal finances and personal logic go out the door when it comes to the Federal govt? When you are paying higher taxes is your take home pay higher or lower? When you have less income coming in do you spend more?
 
liblady said:
that's simply not true. if there were a demand for their products, they would find a way to meet that demand. as long as CONSUMERS aren't spending, demand is down.

are you seriously trying to say a business would not be interested in growth because of healthcare? do you really think a business wouldn't hire an extra person, or buy an additional piece of equipment, and forego additional revenue, all because of health care? doubtful.
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Consumers aren't going to spend faced with higher taxes and that is always the issue. It is more than healthcare, it is the massive expansion of govt. that has to be paid for.
 
phattonez said:
When you have the threat of new regulations and new taxes, you aren't sure what your costs are going to be in the future. How can you invest when you can't even venture as guess as to what future costs will be like?
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that's just silly. there is ALWAYS the chance costs could increase, for any number of reasons. just as there is always a chance of different regulation. businesses can and will plan for that.

as for small business tax increases, where's that threat coming from...your mind?
 
liblady said:
that's just silly. there is ALWAYS the chance costs could increase, for any number of reasons. just as there is always a chance of different regulation. businesses can and will plan for that.
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Because they have the ability to plan for that! How do you plan for future tax increases and new regulations and inflation? You wouldn't even bother trying because there is such a huge possible error involved.

as for small business tax increases, where's that threat coming from...your mind?
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Healthcare does involve tax increases for businesses, as does cap and trade. Regulations also affect small businesses.
 
phattonez said:
Because they have the ability to plan for that! How do you plan for future tax increases and new regulations and inflation? You wouldn't even bother trying because there is such a huge possible error involved.



Healthcare does involve tax increases for businesses, as does cap and trade. Regulations also affect small businesses.
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essentially, what you are saying is that small business will just give up and go away because they might have to pay a bit extra. that's just not true, especailly with the breaks the obama admin wants for small business. and i didn't realize there was a tax increase to small business for healthcare, where can i find THAT information? oh, and of course regulation affects small business, always has, always will.

this sounding of the alarm is designed to do one thing, get people to vote republican. can you give specific examples of regulation, taxes and healthcare causing small business to go under?
 
liblady said:
essentially, what you are saying is that small business will just give up and go away because they might have to pay a bit extra. that's just not true, especailly with the breaks the obama admin wants for small business. and i didn't realize there was a tax increase to small business for healthcare, where can i find THAT information? oh, and of course regulation affects small business, always has, always will.
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Eric Staib said:
As a result, large firms that now provide employee health insurance will either deduct more for their benefits packages or attempt to manage the plan internally. Firms that outsource plan management to insurers, by the very act of doing so, demonstrate that their managers do not believe themselves competent to manage the plans.

Therefore, this tax will lead to poorer management of employer-provided health insurance plans that, by government fiat, can no longer be inexpensively outsourced. For employees, this will mean more expensive premiums and more erratic claims-payment practices, both of which undermine the benefits to employees of having insurance in the first place.
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Healthcare Reform and a New Producer Tax - Eric M. Staib - Mises Daily

Businesses are probably going to wait and see what happens before they expand production. They want stability, not threats left and right.

this sounding of the alarm is designed to do one thing, get people to vote republican. can you give specific examples of regulation, taxes and healthcare causing small business to go under?
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You know you can't find specific examples like that. You have to work with the theory.
 
liblady said:
that's just silly. there is ALWAYS the chance costs could increase, for any number of reasons. just as there is always a chance of different regulation. businesses can and will plan for that.

as for small business tax increases, where's that threat coming from...your mind?
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Most cost increases for business are self imposed not govt. generated which this is and thus can be predicted. Never ran a business, I see. I have!
 
phattonez said:
Healthcare Reform and a New Producer Tax - Eric M. Staib - Mises Daily

Businesses are probably going to wait and see what happens before they expand production. They want stability, not threats left and right.



You know you can't find specific examples like that. You have to work with the theory.
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Or you work based upon historical facts in your own business. Being a wage slave gives one a different perspective vs. owning your own business and having your own money invested. No small business is going to expand not knowing the cost of the Obama agenda.
 
Demand drives expansion.... Anyone who tries to argue to the contrary is quite wrong and IMHO a fool.

Some facts on small business for those who are interested.
 
phattonez said:
When you have the threat of new regulations and new taxes, you aren't sure what your costs are going to be in the future. How can you invest when you can't even venture as guess as to what future costs will be like?
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Business is never really sure, and frankly, it's not that up in the air. They can plan and handle any of this. What they can't control is demand. People have to buy. If they do, they will respond regardless of all other factors.
 
Boo Radley said:
Business is never really sure, and frankly, it's not that up in the air. They can plan and handle any of this. What they can't control is demand. People have to buy. If they do, they will respond regardless of all other factors.
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With all that economic business knowledge and expertise you have, why haven't you started your own business with your own money?
 
Conservative said:
With all that economic business knowledge and expertise you have, why haven't you started your own business with your own money?
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How do you know I haven't? :neener

But the fact is we have history as a guide. Busniess has grown with high taxes and shrank with low taxes, and vice versa. Any reasonable person can look at that and conclude that taxes don't seem to play a major role.
 
Boo Radley said:
How do you know I haven't? :neener

But the fact is we have history as a guide. Busniess has grown with high taxes and shrank with low taxes, and vice versa. Any reasonable person can look at that and conclude that taxes don't seem to play a major role.
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Because you told me you were taking on more responsibility at the company where you work.

I am still waiting for you to apply your own financial situation to the national scene, when your taxes go up do you have more or less spendable income and how does that affect spending?
 
Boo Radley said:
But the fact is we have history as a guide. Busniess has grown with high taxes and shrank with low taxes, and vice versa. Any reasonable person can look at that and conclude that taxes don't seem to play a major role.
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Could you show this empirically to be true, or are you just making absurd statements hoping not to be challenged?

High taxes, and uncertainty in the market place are business killers, plain and simple.

Mr. Obama hit Republicans hard for not passing his $42 billion Small Business Jobs Act, but Americans should realize that there's less here than meets the soundbite. The bill contains $12 billion in targeted tax cuts, such as a 100% exclusion of capital gains income for certain small start-ups, expensing for certain capital purchases, and new deductions for start-up expenses.

These sound great, except only a fraction of businesses will be eligible and the write-offs last for only one or two years. One of the larger capital gains tax exclusions, for example, will apply to stock purchased between 2009 and January 1, 2011, which is only months away. In terms of the overall economy, these are very small beer.

The White House is right that a capital gains tax cut will help small businesses raise capital. So why raise that tax rate to 20% from 15% on January 1 for everyone else? This bill isn't even a net business tax cut, because the temporary small business cuts are offset by permanent corporate tax increases. Mr. Obama is promising $12 billion of tax cuts with his left hand while proposing to collect about $300 billion in tax increases from this bill and others with his right.

Review & Outlook: The Small Beer Bill - WSJ.com
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Senate Democrats had a chance to ask the President questions at a Q&A session this week. Mostly a show for the home town crowds in their respective states, the Senators asked tuff questions to help boost poll numbers at home. All of the Senators that asked questions will find themselves in a fight this fall for their seats. If you didn’t know that it was democrats asking the questions, you would think that the questions came strait from the GOP. One of the best and most important questions came from Senator Blanche Lincoln.

“I visited with a constituent yesterday, good Democrat, small business owner, who was extremely frustrated — extremely frustrated because there was a lack of certainty and predictability from his government for him to be able to run his businesses.”

Lincoln did not elaborate on what lack of certainty the small business owner was referrin
The point speaks for itself. If small business in Amecrica feels that the future is not ripe for growth, the business owners will save as much capital as they can by cutting cost. Lowering expenses, laying workers off, or cutting benefits and wages would be just some of the possibilities not to mention not hiring new employees. We can only speculate as to the reaction of owners in an uncertain economic situation that continues in this country.

www.sbaloans-123.com/sba-funding/uncertainty-killing-small-business-–-says-lincoln
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We see this today....Plenty of businesses taking applications, making prospective employees jump through hoops thinking that they have a prospective job, and then not hearing from them ever again. In times of certainty, this would not be happening.


j-mac
 
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