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Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

Laila said:
No, I am currently reading other books.

I have no doubt tho that you'll post a very detailed review of why the gentlemen is a terrorist in disguise
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The title is enough. No need to read the book.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Wrong, I've looked at the entire transcript from the 60 minutes interview where he blamed the United States for 9-11 and said OBL was made in the USA, I've listened to the entire podcast of the WABC radio interview where he repeatedly refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, I've read the entire article he wrote supporting Sharia, and I've watched the entire video where he compares the United States unfavorably to Al-Qaeda.
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Did you see the video of Glenn Beck agreeing with Imam Rauf and calling him a "good Muslim?" .....

During the ABC segment, Rauf condemned the extremists who issued death threats against the Pope and political cartoonists, specifically saying that "these reactions are not at all called for by Islamic teaching. The teachings of Islam are very similar to the teachings of Christianity, of loving the one God and loving thy neighbor. These are the two common principles."

When Diane Sawyer mentioned that Imam Rauf says the radicals are just a "group of people" and "not him," Beck seemed to agree, saying "sure, sure." He added, "I believe it's a small portion of Islam that is acting in these ways."

Beck, for his part, even appeared to gesture to Imam Rauf when he invoked the idea of "good Muslims." (At about 2:45.)

FLASHBACK: In 2006 joint appearance, Beck*appeared to*call Imam Rauf a "good Muslim" | Media Matters for America
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Did you know Imam Rauf attended the memorial of Daniel Pearle and referred to himself as both a Jew and a Christian and in doing so put his own life at risk? ....

O Lord, we are people who are not usually in the same room with one another, and all too rarely with an opportunity to talk to each other.

We are people of faith and perhaps people without any professed religion: practicing and perhaps not. Today we are members of many faiths: Christian, Jew and Muslim. But we have come together to confirm the common ground of our faiths, on which we all stand united, to assert our common values, values that constrain us to act in the highest sense of what it means to be human.

We are here to assert the Islamic conviction of the moral equivalency of our Abrahamic faiths. If to be a Jew means to say with all one's heart, mind and soul Shma` Yisrael, Adonai Elohenu Adonai Ahad; hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One, not only today I am a Jew, I have always been one, Mr. Pearl.

If to be a Christian is to love the Lord our God with all of my heart, mind and soul, and to love for my fellow human being what I love for myself, then not only am I a Christian, but I have always been one Mr. Pearl.

And I am here to inform you, with the full authority of the Quranic texts and the practice of the Prophet Muhammad, that to say La ilaha illallah Muhammadun rasulullah is no different. It expresses the same theological and ethical principles and values.

We are here especially to seek your forgiveness and of your family for what has been done in the name of Islam.
http://www.bj.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/daniel_pearl_memorial.pdf
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Did you know Imam Rauf has repeatedly condemned Muslim terrorism, terrorists and anyone who uses violence in the name of religion? .....

A May 21 New York Daily News article quoted Rauf stating: "We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it." He also stated: "We want to rebuild this community. ... This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution."

An August 2 Slate.com article reported that Rauf "has denounced church burnings in Muslim countries, rejected Islamic triumphalism over Christians and Jews, and proposed to reclaim Islam from violent radicals such as Osama Bin Laden."

A June 23, 2004, New York Times article reported that Rauf "condemns suicide bombings and all violence carried out in the name of religion." The Times further reported that Rauf "meets regularly with Christian and Jewish leaders, not only to forge a common front but also to explain his belief that Islamic terrorists do not come from another moral universe -- that they arise from oppressive societies that he feels Washington had a hand in creating."

A June 8, 2004, Newsday article (accessed via Nexis) reported: "Rauf has done little else since the terrorist attacks that pulled him from his mahogany pulpit in the shadow of Ground Zero. At the outset, he categorically condemned suicide bombers and, in fact, any violence committed in the name of religion."

According to a September 8, 2002, Denver Post article (from Nexis), Rauf told congregants at his Manhattan mosque: "I can confidently assert that I am closer to my Jewish and Christian brothers here a [sic] than the Muslim militants carrying a narrow view."

A May 21 Daily News editorial stated that Rauf "has a long history of opposing radical teachings and reaching out across religious lines to Christians and Jews. He leads a mosque in Tribeca, several of whose members were killed in the collapse of the World Trade Center."
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Did you know that Sharia Law and the Declaration of Independence are both grounded in the Laws of Nature and Natural Law?......

In his 2004 book, What's Right With Islam, Rauf argued that the "American political structure is Shariah compliant" just like any other political structure that "upholds, protects, and furthers" the "God-given" rights of "life, mind (that is, mental well-being or sanity), religion, property (or wealth), and family (or lineage and progeny)." From What's Right With Islam:
Grounding itself in reason, just as the Quran and the Abrahamic ethic did in asserting the self-evident oneness of God, the Declaration opens with the most important line in the document: "We hold these Truths to be self-evident." The language evokes the long tradition of natural law, which holds that there is a higher law of right and wrong from which to derive human law and against which human laws may be -- and ought to be -- measured. It is not political will but moral reasoning accessible to all that is the foundation of the American political system.

But "nature," at least in the eyes of believers in God, is just another word for "God's creation," and thus natural law must mean "the laws that God established and structured creation on." These span the spectrum from the laws of the physical sciences such as mathematics, physics, biology, and chemistry to the sociological and psychological laws that govern human relationships, all of which are knowable to humans through reason. Thus the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence opens with the words "When ... it becomes necessary for one People ... to assume ... the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them" (italics added).

To Muslims, the law decreed by God is called the Shariah, and therefore the "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" are by definition Shariah law. It is a law that has to appeal to human reason and be in accord with human nature, informing us that "a community based on ideas held in common is a far more advanced manifestation of human life than a community resulting from race or language or geographical location."​
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Now you know the truth about Imam Rauf.

If an overt Islamist is moderate then what's radical?
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A radical is someone who perverts the truth to fit their extremist political agenda. Just like what you do, Ferris.
 
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Moot said Did you see the video of Glenn Beck agreeing with Imam Rauf and calling him a "good Muslim?" .....

LOL Did you?

There's a thread on it. It's hilarious.
Media Matters accuses him of endorsing Rauf because of a 2006 tape. The proof was Beck said sure..sure.. and it "looked" like Beck was jestering at the Imam went he said "good muslims"
Beck dug up a Media Matters from 2006 where they used the very same tape and accused him of hating Muslims.
Media Matters, what a joke.
 
Barbbtx said:
Moot said Did you see the video of Glenn Beck agreeing with Imam Rauf and calling him a "good Muslim?" .....

LOL Did you?

There's a thread on it. It's hilarious.
Media Matters accuses him of endorsing Rauf because of a 2006 tape. The proof was Beck said sure..sure.. and it "looked" like Beck was jestering at the Imam went he said "good muslims"
Beck dug up a Media Matters from 2006 where they used the very same tape and accused him of hating Muslims.
Media Matters, what a joke.
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Thats what life is, a big cosmic joke. That's why I'm laughing at your "attack the messenger" fallacy instead of addressing Beck's hypocricy.
 
Moot said:
Thats what life is, a big cosmic joke. That's why I'm laughing at your "attack the messenger" fallacy instead of addressing Beck's hypocricy.
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What hypocricy? I wasn't attacking the messager I was correcting the messenger.
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Thanked 261 in 182 Posts Re: Beck responds to "good Muslim" Rauf interview with mockery and lies
Originally Posted by pbrauer


Strike Three: Beck again tries to lie his way out of his Imam Rauf flip-flop | Media Matters for America
LOL This is priceless Thanks for the link!

BECK: Let me show you how you at Media Matters originally reported the very same story from the very same interview in 2006. I wonder if they're the same. ... You see, here's the problem: They're using the same -- this one is now, and they're saying, "See, I endorse him. He's good." This one is using the same video clip and saying, "I hate all Muslims." That's weird. Using the same thing. Highlighting different words.
Liblady is so generous
 
Shoot, I thought a link to MM would come through on that post.
 
Barbbtx said:
What hypocricy? I wasn't attacking the messager I was correcting the messenger.
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Join Date Jan 2010
Last SeenToday @ 12:24 AM
Gender
Lean Conservative
Location W'Ford TX
Posts 979
Thanks 529
Thanked 261 in 182 Posts Re: Beck responds to "good Muslim" Rauf interview with mockery and lies
Originally Posted by pbrauer


Strike Three: Beck again tries to lie his way out of his Imam Rauf flip-flop | Media Matters for America
LOL This is priceless Thanks for the link!

BECK: Let me show you how you at Media Matters originally reported the very same story from the very same interview in 2006. I wonder if they're the same. ... You see, here's the problem: They're using the same -- this one is now, and they're saying, "See, I endorse him. He's good." This one is using the same video clip and saying, "I hate all Muslims." That's weird. Using the same thing. Highlighting different words.
Liblady is so generous
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Hmmm, MM does highlight the different words in 2006 and yet Glenn Beck does agree with Sawyer that the Iman is not a radical Muslim "sure,....sure, I believe it's a small portion of Islam that is acting in these ways......They are -- they're hijacking a beautiful religion......I believe there is a cancer that is radicalized Islam, and it must be cut out or it's going to kill all of us including the good Muslims, (gestures toward Imam Rauf) and that is the vast majority of Islam."

Beck agrees with Sawyer, the Imam is not a radical Muslim. Beck said Islam is a "beautiful religion". He gestures to the Imam when he says "good Muslims." He finished by saying, "that is the vast majority of Islam", meaning they are good Muslims, too.

The Imam for his part agrees with Beck, that radical Muslims are calling for Armageddon against the west, and he called for a "delinking of religion from politics in both the west and the Middle East" to defuse the situation and Beck nods in agreement. I think that pretty much proves Beck considered Imam Rauf to be a moderate Muslim.

Unfortunately I can't say Glenn Beck is a moderate because he failed to agree with the Imam that radical Evangelicals in the US are also calling for Armaggedon with Islam and that his own rhetoric against Islam is ramping up the hate and fear every bit as much as the Muslim jihadist. In fact, there is little that separates Beck from U.S born Anwar al-Awlaki when it comes to recruiting the ignorant and weak minded to do their dirty work in this country (ie: Tides Foundation) and that makes Beck every bit as dangerous and a national security risk to the US as Al Qaeda.
 
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Moot said:
Hmmm, MM does highlight the different words in 2006 and yet Glenn Beck does agree with Sawyer that the Iman is not a radical Muslim "sure,....sure, I believe it's a small portion of Islam that is acting in these ways......They are -- they're hijacking a beautiful religion......I believe there is a cancer that is radicalized Islam, and it must be cut out or it's going to kill all of us including the good Muslims, (gestures toward Imam Rauf) and that is the vast majority of Islam."

Beck agrees with Sawyer, the Imam is not a radical Muslim. Beck said Islam is a "beautiful religion". He gestures to the Imam when he says "good Muslims." He finished by saying, "that is the vast majority of Islam", meaning they are good Muslims, too.

The Imam for his part agrees with Beck, that radical Muslims are calling for Armageddon against the west, and he called for a "delinking of religion from politics in both the west and the Middle East" to defuse the situation and Beck nods in agreement. I think that pretty much proves Beck considered Imam Rauf to be a moderate Muslim.

Unfortunately I can't say Glenn Beck is a moderate because he failed to agree with the Imam that radical Evangelicals in the US are also calling for Armaggedon with Islam and that his own rhetoric against Islam is ramping up the hate and fear every bit as much as the Muslim jihadist. In fact, there is little that separates Beck from U.S born Anwar al-Awlaki when it comes to recruiting the ignorant and weak minded to do their dirty work in this country (ie: Tides Foundation) and that makes Beck every bit as dangerous and a national security risk to the US as Al Qaeda.
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And Beck to this day still says that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, moderate muslims. however, (my words now) in this day and age of caliphate by radicals across the globe aimed at western culture, and anyone who does not submit, and convert, lying is but one of their tools. Problem is that liberals are so inclined to make friends that they totally ignore that, and further, when a site like MM is your backing for your thoughts, there are more problems to your argument than just a lack of critical thinking skills, it goes to dishonesty as well.


IMHO.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
And Beck to this day still says that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, moderate muslims. however, (my words now) in this day and age of caliphate by radicals across the globe aimed at western culture, and anyone who does not submit, and convert, lying is but one of their tools. Problem is that liberals are so inclined to make friends that they totally ignore that, and further, when a site like MM is your backing for your thoughts, there are more problems to your argument than just a lack of critical thinking skills, it goes to dishonesty as well.


IMHO.


j-mac
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Just a comment here - there seems to be this black and white view of muslims. Either they're fringe terrorists or they're moderate & peaceful. I don't think anything is that black and white in this world. There are shades of grey here. Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest? And when the progressive liberal left start degrading those who don't agree with them and start throwing around vitriolic propaganda like "Islamaphobic" and "un-American"... we have to realize these are the same progressive liberals who want God stricken from every public building, off our money, and manger scenes taken down each and every Christmas. I just can't bring myself to give them much credibility on such an issue as this.
 
Ockham said:
Just a comment here - there seems to be this black and white view of muslims. Either they're fringe terrorists or they're moderate & peaceful. I don't think anything is that black and white in this world. There are shades of grey here. Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest? And when the progressive liberal left start degrading those who don't agree with them and start throwing around vitriolic propaganda like "Islamaphobic" and "un-American"... we have to realize these are the same progressive liberals who want God stricken from every public building, off our money, and manger scenes taken down each and every Christmas. I just can't bring myself to give them much credibility on such an issue as this.
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I think the key difference is the official recognition of religion vs some religious people doing their thing in a private setting.

Personally, I believe that government staying out of religion is to the benefit of religion (look at the Roman empire, the middle ages, and various modern theocracies and see how much religion and politics mixing lead to the corruption of the religion).
 
Ockham said:
Just a comment here - there seems to be this black and white view of muslims. Either they're fringe terrorists or they're moderate & peaceful. I don't think anything is that black and white in this world. There are shades of grey here. Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest? And when the progressive liberal left start degrading those who don't agree with them and start throwing around vitriolic propaganda like "Islamaphobic" and "un-American"... we have to realize these are the same progressive liberals who want God stricken from every public building, off our money, and manger scenes taken down each and every Christmas. I just can't bring myself to give them much credibility on such an issue as this.
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Well, I think you have a point here, we need to scrutinize further those mosque's within our midst. And can anyone tell me please why it is that the terror training site at Red House Va. has never been fully investigated? We are going back to sleep.


The next one may kill 30,000 instead of 3,000.


j-mac
 
Ockham said:
Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest?
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The rest are probably like me, and find this "controversy" unbelievably stupid and petty. Is the American mind so degraded by propaganda against oil-producing nations that half the people find mosque-building an attack on their right to live in complete ignorance of other cultural traditions?

Was that banking tower that got taken down really sacred to Christ?
 
Qatzel Ok said:
The rest are probably like me, and find this "controversy" unbelievably stupid and petty. Is the American mind so degraded by propaganda against oil-producing nations that half the people find mosque-building an attack on their right to live in complete ignorance of other cultural traditions?

Was that banking tower that got taken down really sacred to Christ?
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What does "christ" have to do with anything here? :roll:
 
Qatzel Ok said:
The rest are probably like me, and find this "controversy" unbelievably stupid and petty. Is the American mind so degraded by propaganda against oil-producing nations that half the people find mosque-building an attack on their right to live in complete ignorance of other cultural traditions?

Was that banking tower that got taken down really sacred to Christ?
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Then you may want to reconsider your opinion. Not everyone believes it silly and petty. Turn this around a minute and let's say Christian extremists crashed a fully loaded 747 into Mecca's Grand Mosque killing thousands. Some American came on a political board and said any residual anamosity of such an act 10 years later is just silly and petty. Doubt that would be a popular opinion among Muslims reading.

What we find is such a building is insensitive and of very bad taste - I think the ignorance of cultural traditions are on the "Cordoba House" groups side. I find it humorous that some Muslims and other political types with their own agenda's are so ademate about builidng only there. It's funny because non-Muslims cannot even step foot in Mecca's Grand Mosque, let alone build something there.

Was the tower sacred to Christ? All life is sacred to Christ. Not so of infidels though, or am I wrong there?

See, that's part of the problem with Islam. There's no unity of voice or message. One Muslim may be very peaceful and reject some passages of the Qur'an which call for deaths and killing, etc... as do Christian's with the violent parts of the Old Testament. Ask another 100 Muslims and each have a mix of cultural, geographic, political and religion all jumbled up into something they call being "Islamic". The divergence can be (but not always is) striking. Some want Sharia - others don't have a strong opinion or do not want it. Some believe the Hadith's over the Qur'an, others do not... Whereas, you take a Baptist, a Methodist and a Catholic and you'll find 90% of the tenents of the Bible are agreed upon. The other 10% has to do with practices of their faith, differences in worship, and some concepts of heaven, being saved, and deeds vs. belief. I don't see that commonality is Islam yet - but maybe it's on it's way.
 
1. mr rauf's stated purpose in building this church is to improve relations with his community

2. he cannot accomplish his purported mission by openly and crassly OFFENDING the heartfelt sentiments of those to whom he says he wishes to reach out

3. a lesson his mama shoulda taught him

4. 50% of new york DEMS oppose this project

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-con...gust 10, 2010 NYC Poll Release and Tables.pdf

5. indeed, nationally only 46% of DEMS believe barry hussein is a christian, down 9% since he became prez

Poll: 1 in 5 Americans think Obama is Muslim - Washington Times

6. why do so many people DISBELIEVE barry?

7. worry
 
If somene is unjustly offended, is it possible to reach out to such a person at all?
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Hi strawman of silly proportions, glad you could make it. :roll:
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Not a strawman. The premise is based on belie=ving there is something offensive in the cneter being built there. If a Christian church was being built in a black neighborhood, would it be reasonble for blacks to suggest it is offensive because more than some klan members are Christian? Would the Church be insensitive?

I argue no. And to even consider this being insensitive would be equal to considering all responsible for anything done by anyone professing a simimlar belief system. Such is nonsense.
 
Boo Radley said:
Not a strawman. The premise is based on belie=ving there is something offensive in the cneter being built there. If a Christian church was being built in a black neighborhood, would it be reasonble for blacks to suggest it is offensive because more than some klan members are Christian? Would the Church be insensitive?

I argue no. And to even consider this being insensitive would be equal to considering all responsible for anything done by anyone professing a simimlar belief system. Such is nonsense.
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My bad, Not a strawman, you are correct. More like a "loaded question"....



I don't know how to answer the rest of your post because, well, it makes little sense. Most black folk are christian. :shrug:


Tell me would a japanese cultural center built at pearl harbor be offensive?
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
My bad, Not a strawman, you are correct. More like a "loaded question"....



I don't know how to answer the rest of your post because, well, it makes little sense. Most black folk are christian. :shrug:


Tell me would a japanese cultural center built at pearl harbor be offensive?
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Doesn't matter. Say it's in a neighbood where they aren't. Should Christians accept blame for the Klan? The question isn't all that difficult.
 
Boo Radley said:
Doesn't matter. Say it's in a neighbood where they aren't. Should Christians accept blame for the Klan? The question isn't all that difficult.
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Tell me would a japanese cultural center built at pearl harbor be offensive?
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I've asked you this before. you simply ignore it.


Your loaded question makes little sense and is not worthy or a retort.
 
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