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Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

Zyphlin said:
No, I'm not suggesting mosques directly are related to 9/11. I'm saying ISLAM directly is related to 9/11. I've yet to still see anyone whose shown that it isn't. All I've ever seen is people going "They're mad that we're meddling in their land or that we attacked [random middle eastern country]", however those anger issues all lead back to their religion and their belief that we're invading the "Land of Islam".
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So if mosques are directly related to Islam and Islam is directly related to 9/11, is there a duality to Islam that creates a barrier to mosques being directly related to 9/11?

You can't attach and detach things to Islam for convenience sake. Islam isn't Mr. Potato Head.

Zyphlin said:
I'm saying Islam is directly involved in the acts of 9/11. I'm saying that rightly or wrongly when many people think of 9/11 and Islam together at once, even people who at other times have a neutral to somewhat positive view of Islam, that it stirs up extremely negative and angry emotions. I'm saying as such having a mosque whose purpose is to be an activist location around 9/11, using its vicinity to 9/11 for its activist purposes, no matter the benevolent intentions (and frankly I question those intentions), is going to cause unneeded additional emotional distress and problems to individuals traveling to what is essentially a historic national site that is unneeded. Additionally, I think such will do MORE harm to the cause of Moderate Islam and acceptance of it in this country than good and thus is detrimental to their supposed cause and to what's best for the nation.
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Those people won't have to pass by the Muslim community center when visiting Ground Zero. It's like New York City turned into San Francisco in the last couple months. In December 2009 no one had a problem with it. Now that election season is upon us once again people's feelings are hurt? In New York? The city were "What the **** is your problem?" is often a child's first words? :lol:

If a liberal took this stance it would be "political correctness run amok". I'm sorry that Al Qaeda doesn't have a capital, a uniform, a flag, or other face discernable from the rest of Islam, but Islam is not the face of terrorism. If people can't think beyond generalizations there is no reaching them.

Zyphlin said:
Islam didn't cause it. Islam was instrumental in recruiting for it, fabricating a reason for it, motivating it, allowing for the methods that were used, and justifying it after the fact.
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Hold on here Zyphlin. "Allowing for the methods that were used"? This certainly sounds like you are saying that the 9/11 attacks were sanctioned by Islam. If this were true, we would be dead already. We can't defeat a force of 1.5 billion people. Even if there is 1.5 million Al Qaeda members (I've heard only 100,000 estimated in the past), that's only .1% of all Muslims. That hardly earns the religion this nasty generalization.

I don't think we should enable people's ignorance. Just because people don't understand the reality doesn't mean that they should be bargained with or capitulated to. Sure, we can all understand their reaction, but that doesn't mean it should be condoned. Islam isn't the enemy, yet people certainly are acting as if it were since this became the wedge issue of 2010.
 
BDBoop said:
Evidently you did as well.
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You too.

I really don't understand why leftist feel the need to hijack Christianity. You can't have a very comfortable relationship with it.

Why not just make up your own?
 
stealthy said:
I didn't believe it before, but I've now been convinced that Obama must be a muslim.

Nothing else would engender the defence.
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That would certainly explain the Jewish members in his Administration. :roll:
 
stealthy said:
You too.

I really don't understand why leftist feel the need to hijack Christianity. You can't have a very comfortable relationship with it.

Why not just make up your own?
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I can't? Why ever not?
 
apdst said:
It depends on whose being offended.
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How so? Please explain because I don't understand what you mean or are alluding to.
 
Sorry, off topic. I really do wonder about that though.
 
digsbe said:
How so? Please explain because I don't understand what you mean or are alluding to.
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If this were something that offended minorities, there's no way they would get permission to build on that site.

I'll save us some time, because I already know your response: "nu-uh!!! Liar, liar, pants on fire."

To which I reply, "whatever, dude".
 
What you did, was make the assumption that I would soon be getting my news from Stormfront.
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What I did was say that you're a troll that gets their talking points from Fox News and, soon probably Stormfront. This was a commentary on the fundamentalization of the conservative right as much as it was a cheap personal attack on you, which I openly admit and thoroughly enjoyed.

However, I coupled this with actually addressing your points, something you are completely unable/unwilling to do in response.

There's nothing wrong with a little name calling. We're on a message board. I didn't call you racist though, for obvious reason.

Basically, calling me a white supremacist, or a person with white supremacist views
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I never called or implied that you were a "white supremacist". The reference to Stormfront was a commentary on the increasingly racist views put forward by the conservatives. I just felt like taking a stab at you at the same time. It had nothing to do with whatever race you are. Again, I enjoyed it.

because of my opposition to the ground Zero mosque, claim that I'm a racist.
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Right, your racist views against Muslims has little to do with whether or not you are white. You are correct here.

I think you need to do some soul searching and work on your own racist views.
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Lol and I'd still be waiting for you to respond to my point if I didn't already know that you're completely incapable of doing so.

digsbe said:
If their views held sway I would protest back and point out that it's illegal and a violation of religious freedom/property rights to move the mosque using legal action on the grounds of it may offend some people. There is no law or right against being offended. I would not accept the passage of some kind of resolution that would discriminate against Muslims anywhere. I respect their right to protest and to voice their beliefs. True tyranny is silencing the voices of those we disagree with.
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And what happens when your "pointing out" gets you nowhere? You basically just dodged my question.

My question, more generally, is what happens when the state is no longer enforcing your ideal of free specch? Are you going to stand up and fight it, through extra-judicial means if necessary, or are you going to bow down, whether that means shutting up entirely or merely confining yourself to "pointing out" the injustice to those who openly support it? If the latter, then how can you live with yourself? If the former, then how can you allow it up to the point of when the state aligns itself with them and it is too late?
 
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Tucker Case said:
Often, people only see what they want to see and often what they want to see is that which confirms their own biases, so they overlook anything that doesn't match their preconceptions.
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PM me the next time it happens.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
What I did was say that you're a troll that gets their talking points from Fox News and, soon probably Stormfront. This was a commentary on the fundamentalization of the conservative right as much as it was a cheap personal attack on you, which I openly admit and thoroughly enjoyed.
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You enjoyed calling a black dude a white supremist? And, you call me a racist? I wonder if BDBoop is going to thank this post, too.
 
Witty retort!

Now I can stop responding to you. :D

EDIT: But it is rather funny that you of all people are playing the race card.
 
apdst said:
PM me the next time it happens.
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I don't really care enough about your opinion to bother with PMing you about it. I only mentioned it because you asked about it in such as way that it made it seem as though you had some knowledge about my posting style, which you have since admitted you did not actually possess.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
The entire opposition to the Mosque is based on essentially a reincarnation of Jim Crow against Muslims. They are basically saying "you can worship just don't do it here". This argument is no different than the argument used against blacks during the Jim Crow era. The fact that these demonstrations had/have racist undertones is absolutely no surprise. They even harassed an African-American man, claiming they thought he was a Mosque supporter when in fact he never said his opinion on anything whatsoever. In reality it was because he looked like a Muslim.

I hope the Mosque gets built just to spit in the faces of all the bigots opposing it.
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If the mosque is built and someone blows it up I wonder if Americans will dance in the streets and celebrate quietly in thier homes like muslims did on 9-11?
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Witty retort!

Now I can stop responding to you. :D

EDIT: But it is rather funny that you of all people are playing the race card.
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No race card. Just wondering why you assumed that I'm white. Is it because I don't think like a black person? I'm not offended; just curious. And, calling you out for your silly little, "you be uh racist", tirade.

Libs on this forum requently assume I'm white. Just wondering what makes you people tick.
 
apdst said:
If this were something that offended minorities, there's no way they would get permission to build on that site.

I'll save us some time, because I already know your response: "nu-uh!!! Liar, liar, pants on fire."

To which I reply, "whatever, dude".
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That's just factless speculation. What facts do you base that assertion on?
 
Tucker Case said:
I don't really care enough about your opinion to bother with PMing you about it. I only mentioned it because you asked about it in such as way that it made it seem as though you had some knowledge about my posting style, which you have since admitted you did not actually possess.
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Nice attitude.
 
digsbe said:
That's just factless speculation. What facts do you base that assertion on?
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A better way to prove me wrong, would be to tell me what you would have said. But, that didn't happen.
 
SgtRock said:
If the mosque is built and someone blows it up I wonder if Americans will dance in the streets and celebrate quietly in thier homes like muslims did on 9-11?
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And after time goes by no one who didn't lose someone then won't mind us putting a big cross there.
 
apdst said:
Nice attitude.
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At least it isn't the entitlment one you are displaying. Did you really expect me to jump up and say "yessuh massa, suh" when you ordered me to offer you proof that your accusatory comments are false?
 
apdst;1058939582 Not once have I said that I oppose Muslims worshiping however they please. I don't even care where they worship. I'm only opposed to building a mosque next door to Ground Zero. So said:
I am so sick of being called a racist and bigot just because I think this mosque is a very bad idea and a slap in the face by this Imam. He does not want to build bridges or he'd stop this crap right now.
Being called these names that have no truth sucks. It's not just coming from this board but from every media outlet there is. If you don't want the Mosque, you are an Islamaphobe and full of hate. Blah Blah Blah
Well, I'm sick of it. So I'm going to name call back.
Everyone out there that is for the Mosque at Ground Zero is un-American. 70% of our population is against it. It's like a stab to the heart for some. Others it feels like a slap in the face. It's very painful to think of a 14 story mosque sitting at ground zero like some kind of Victory Monument. I was no where near there on 9/11 but I still remember it well. I'll NEVER forget it. I can imagine how the survivors and families must feel.
So go ahead, you 30% of the population. Go ahead and keep fighting to have the Mosque there. You are turning your back on 70% of the American people. That is Un-American in my view. Racist too, because 70% of the population is not all white people.
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apdst said:
No race card. Just wondering why you assumed that I'm white. Is it because I don't think like a black person? I'm not offended; just curious. And, calling you out for your silly little, "you be uh racist", tirade.

Libs on this forum requently assume I'm white. Just wondering what makes you people tick.
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What do you mean by "you people"?

:lol:
 
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