• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

I'm not allowed to say, they have to say it was they.

My point was if one person got so wound up on this notion my motives for the posting were, as suggested, I best nip that in the bud now with all posters.
I guess I can understand how you must have felt. Your OP was actually pretty tame. In fact, I thought you were being too kind. LOL Anyhooo, carry on.
 
Because I have become convinced that the seeds of truth cannot grow in rock.

How can you debate with people who believe things that are blatantly untrue? No matter how many facts you point out, there are folks who still believe that Obama is a Muslim and a socialist, that climate change is a myth, that evolution doesn't exist, and that all muslims are terrorists, all gays are child molesters and all blacks are racists.

Who said that all Muslims are terrorists, Groucho, or that all Gays are child molesters and all Blacks are racist?

Unless you can provide evidence for these claims I'd say they were blatantly untrue.
 
here is an excellent article in today's NYT, which castigates franklin graham's attempt to misinform
... “I am a devout Christian,” Obama told Christianity Today in 2008. “I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.” That’s not enough, apparently, for Rev. Franklin Graham, the partisan son of the great evangelical leader, who said last week that Obama was “born a Muslim because of the religious seed passed on from his father.”

Actually, he was born from two non-practicing parents, and his Kenyan father was absent for all of his upbringing. Obama came to his Christianity like millions of people, through searching and questioning
. ...
but it also reveals how this is the strategy of the GOP/faux news
the conclusion:
... It’s one thing to forget the past, with predictable consequences, as the favorite aphorism goes. But what about those who refuse to comprehend the present?
Building a Nation of Know-Nothings - NYTimes.com
 
here is an excellent article in today's NYT, which castigates franklin graham's attempt to misinform

but it also reveals how this is the strategy of the GOP/faux news
the conclusion:
Building a Nation of Know-Nothings - NYTimes.com

Grahmn's words

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't.

Certainly does help if you read them Bubba.
 
Because I have become convinced that the seeds of truth cannot grow in rock.

How can you debate with people who believe things that are blatantly untrue? No matter how many facts you point out, there are folks who still believe that Obama is a Muslim and a socialist, that climate change is a myth, that evolution doesn't exist, and that all muslims are terrorists, all gays are child molesters and all blacks are racists.

The worst bit is their implicit belief that being a Muslim or a socialist is a bad thing in any way.
 
Politifact took this on too: PolitiFact | Graham said the "seed of Islam" passes through the father to Obama. We found widespread disagreement.

Blain Auer, an assistant professor of Islamic studies at Western Michigan University, said the most prominent requirement is for believers to recite the shahadah, a statement of faith that affirms "I witness that there is no god but God and Mohammed is his Messenger."

"Franklin Graham's statement is incorrect. Islam is an act of faith, not a genetic disposition," Auer said via e-mail.
 
The worst bit is their implicit belief that being a Muslim or a socialist is a bad thing in any way.

No one said being a Muslim is bad, however how is a socialist anything but bad? How odd of you. I mean, I suppose if you think people need Gov't to survive cause they are too incapable and stupid to get by without being told how to live and what to do.. then I SUPPOSE you could think that Socialism is a good thing...
 

No said it was genetic Redress, how silly of you to post worthless drivvel. More "NO NO YOU CAN'T SUGGEST OBAMA HAD ANY CONNECTION TO ISLAM!!!"

Of course you personally are NOT a Muslim just cause your dad is, however the issue was "Seen as a Muslim" by many Muslims cause DAD WAS and the Koran suggest that is so. Yes, SOME DON'T agree with that, some Christians don't drink Wine too... your point?
 
No said it was genetic Redress, how silly of you to post worthless drivvel. More "NO NO YOU CAN'T SUGGEST OBAMA HAD ANY CONNECTION TO ISLAM!!!"

Of course you personally are NOT a Muslim just cause your dad is, however the issue was "Seen as a Muslim" by many Muslims cause DAD WAS and the Koran suggest that is so. Yes, SOME DON'T agree with that, some Christians don't drink Wine too... your point?

Those are not the words of Graham. His words: ""I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim..." Since Graham's words are the topic of the thread, fact checking those words is perfetly legit.

Now, your straw man rant was entertaining, but it was a straw man, and it was an attempt to distract from the factchecking.
 
Grahmn's words

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't.

Certainly does help if you read them Bubba.

let's do examine his words
Obama would have first had to have been a Muslim to have renounced that religion
Renounce | Define Renounce at Dictionary.com

what good is it doing to read graham's words if you are unable to understand them?


and franklin graham says he has accepted God, as a born again Christian; i cannot say that he hasn't, but his actions appear to betray his words
 
No said it was genetic Redress, how silly of you to post worthless drivvel. More "NO NO YOU CAN'T SUGGEST OBAMA HAD ANY CONNECTION TO ISLAM!!!"

Of course you personally are NOT a Muslim just cause your dad is, however the issue was "Seen as a Muslim" by many Muslims cause DAD WAS and the Koran suggest that is so. Yes, SOME DON'T agree with that, some Christians don't drink Wine too... your point?

Obama is not and have never been a Muslim.
Unless he took the declaration of faith and proceeded to follow the pillars. If he did do that, then yes he is now a Ex Muslim turned Christian ...
.... but he didn't do that. :roll:
 
Those are not the words of Graham. His words: ""I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim..." Since Graham's words are the topic of the thread, fact checking those words is perfetly legit.

Now, your straw man rant was entertaining, but it was a straw man, and it was an attempt to distract from the factchecking.

What fact checking, some professor said you cannot be of a religion by genetics... holy ****, I've been FACT CHECKED MAN.... :roll:

You are also taking the Original Quote out of context to match your silly "fact check".

"I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim, his father gave him an Islamic name," Graham told CNN's John King in a televised interview that aired Thursday night.
"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said," Graham continued, adding that "the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs."
Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim.' As Pew Poll Shows, More Americans Confused About President's Religion. - ABC News

Oh, damn, the full quote in context... Changes the "spin" you put on it.
 
Grahmn's words

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't.

Certainly does help if you read them Bubba.

To renounce Islam and the Prophet Mohammed requires having had a belief in it in the first place.

In which case proof please.
 
"I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother".
206di.gif
 
What fact checking, some professor said you cannot be of a religion by genetics... holy ****, I've been FACT CHECKED MAN.... :roll:


You are also taking the Original Quote out of context to match your silly "fact check".

And you reveal you have not actually read the linked article. Hint: it's a good idea to do so to save embarrassment.




I quoted the part relevant to what was being fact checked. I noted it was not the full quote by the use of ellipses, which is the standard method to do so.
 
however the issue was "Seen as a Muslim" by many Muslims cause DAD WAS and the Koran suggest that is so.

Wouldn't they see him as an apostate then? And thus, wouldn't that be worse for him in the eyes of muslims than just being a christian?
 
And you reveal you have not actually read the linked article. Hint: it's a good idea to do so to save embarrassment.





I quoted the part relevant to what was being fact checked. I noted it was not the full quote by the use of ellipses, which is the standard method to do so.

I'm done with you Redress, I am. You are in "OBAMA'S NOT A MUSLIM!!!" attack mode.

Why was this thread posted? There was a poll showing 1/5th of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, ABC News interviewed Rev. Graham who added to the discussion. I thought it was interesting and added to the debate. Instead it's become a circle jerk of people like you, defending Obama as not being a Muslim! And attacking me and others for pointing out what the Rev was actually saying.
 
Wouldn't they see him as an apostate then? And thus, wouldn't that be worse for him in the eyes of muslims than just being a christian?
That's been brought up too, but I'm done with this Tucker, anything I say Redress and a few others will just attack me as saying things I'm not, or believing things I don't.

I'm tired Tucker.
 
Wouldn't they see him as an apostate then? And thus, wouldn't that be worse for him in the eyes of muslims than just being a christian?

Yes but we don't see him as one because he was never a Muslim to begin with :shrug:
 

I'm done with you Redress, I am. You are in "OBAMA'S NOT A MUSLIM!!!" attack mode.

Why was this thread posted? There was a poll showing 1/5th of Americans think Obama is a Muslim, ABC News interviewed Rev. Graham who added to the discussion. I thought it was interesting and added to the debate. Instead it's become a circle jerk of people like you, defending Obama as not being a Muslim! And attacking me and others for pointing out what the Rev was actually saying.

Yeah, I really attacked you with the post that started this exchange...
 
Do you think that the Islamic extremists would see him as an apostate?

So is Obama under a death sentence? Probably not. As far as I know Obama has never explained when he left Islam and became a Christian. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. 'Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out.

There are several ways this could go with Obama. Fjordman writes, "This is a golden opportunity for American anti-Jihadis to expose the intolerance inherent to Islamic teachings. And it is even better that it is a man from the black community and the political Left, where Muslims find many of their sympathizers."

That is true -- it is an opportunity to call attention to this aspect of Islam that so many are so eager to cover up. However, I think that Obama's candidacy and religious history are more likely to work to the advantage of the Left and the jihadists, even if he flames out a la Howard Dean in 2004. For if the Islamic death penalty for apostasy is even allowed to come up in the mainstream media, smiling Islamic spokesmen will deny that Islam teaches this. They can even be honest and simply affirm that it doesn't apply to Obama at all, since he left Islam while still very young.

Barack Obama and Islamic apostasy - Jihad Watch
 
Back
Top Bottom