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The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

Catholics don't pray directly to God - they believe it is unacceptable/not permitted/etc.

The belief that you can/should pray directly to God is purely a non-Catholic belief.
 
ludahai said:
Where did you get that piece of horse crap?
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I don't actually care enough to read up and learn about whether I'm wrong or not. . . but I do know that praying to saints is called 'intercession' or something like that.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I don't actually care enough to read up and learn about whether I'm wrong or not. . . but I do know that praying to saints is called 'intercession' or something like that.
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We don't pray to saints, we ask them to "intercede", or pray, on our behalf. We also ask friends to do the same. What is the difference.

If you don't care to fix your own ignorance of Catholicism, don't come on here and spout it out as if it were pure unadulterated fact...
 
ludahai said:
No, he did NOT go to an Islamic school in Indonesia. He spent three years at a Catholic school and one year at a public school (which is secular).
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Obama doesn't agree with you. From Dreams From My Father:

In Indonesia, I'd spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I'd pretend to close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended.
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Gill said:
Obama doesn't agree with you. From Dreams From My Father:
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PolitiFact | Obama attended an Indonesian public school

Obama Debunks Claim About Islamic School - washingtonpost.com

"The allegations are completely baseless," said Akmad Solichin, the vice principal at SDN Menteng 1, who added, "Yes, most of our students are Muslim, but there are Christians as well. Everyone's welcome here ... it's a public school."

A spokesman for Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs said claims that Obama studied at an Islamic school are groundless.

"SDN Menteng 1 is a public primary school that is open to people of all faiths," said the spokesman, Sutopo, who goes by only one name. "Moreover, he studied earlier at Fransiskus Assisi, which is clearly a Catholic school."
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What do you know about Indonesian public schools? Ever been in one? Ever talked to people there? Ever known anyone who attended one?
 
Gill said:
I know nothing about Indonesian schools, but I'm assuming Obama does since he says he attended a Muslim school there.

Your beef is with Obama, not me... I'm just quoting him.
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You didn't even give a link, and it isn't what I remember him saying in The Audacity of Hope, which I have read.

The fact is he went to a public school. Public schools in Indonesia are secular. Indonesia has FIVE officially recognized religions (Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Protestantism and Catholicism). All of which are welcome and all of which are brought up in schools to facilitate understand and tolerance as part of the pancasila ideology...
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Catholics don't pray directly to God - they believe it is unacceptable/not permitted/etc.
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That is incorrect. Intercession e.g., asking Mary to intervene on one's behalf, does not preclude praying directly to God. Roman Catholics can and do pray directly to God. From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

We can, of course, address our prayers directly to God...
 
ludahai said:
You didn't even give a link, and it isn't what I remember him saying in The Audacity of Hope, which I have read.

The fact is he went to a public school. Public schools in Indonesia are secular. Indonesia has FIVE officially recognized religions (Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Protestantism and Catholicism). All of which are welcome and all of which are brought up in schools to facilitate understand and tolerance as part of the pancasila ideology...
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You probably don't remember it in Audacity of Hope because it's in Dreams from my Father, as I already said. I don't have an electronic copy of the book, but the quote is available here:

Barack Obama

Once again, those are Obama's words and description of his school, not mine. The links you provided don't disprove he went to a Muslim school, only that he didn't go to a radical Muslim school, which I am not claiming.
 
texmaster said:
What does that have to do with being born a Muslim?
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Graham's appeal is to those with low IQs.
No baby is born a christian nor a muslim; babies are born innocent of man's hatred and fear.
What Graham is doing is dishonest and despicable.
 
Gill said:
Once again, those are Obama's words and description of his school, not mine. The links you provided don't disprove he went to a Muslim school, only that he didn't go to a radical Muslim school, which I am not claiming.
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He went to a PUBLIC school. All public schools in Indonesia are secular. All public schools require students to attend classes aimed at creating awareness of ALL FIVE officially recognized religions in Indonesia.
 
ludahai said:
He went to a PUBLIC school. All public schools in Indonesia are secular. All public schools require students to attend classes aimed at creating awareness of ALL FIVE officially recognized religions in Indonesia.
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Ohh, ok. Guess Obama doesn't know where he went to school. :roll:

Or... he lied. Wouldn't be the first time, or the last.
 
Gill said:
Weak.

He obviously knew enough to know he was studying the Koran.
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Look... what do you know about Indonesian public schools? Only what you read on ignorant Conservative blogs... Indonesia was a secular country. ALL FIVE officially recognized religions are discussed in their religious awareness and tolerance classes. That has LONG been part of the national curriculum in public schools.
 
ludahai said:
Look... what do you know about Indonesian public schools? Only what you read on ignorant Conservative blogs... Indonesia was a secular country. ALL FIVE officially recognized religions are discussed in their religious awareness and tolerance classes. That has LONG been part of the national curriculum in public schools.
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Look... I already said I know NOTHING about Indonesian schools and frankly could care less about Indonesia.

Ignorant conservative blog ??? I didn't realize that Obama's "Dreams from my Father" was an "ignorant conservative blog".

If you care to not believe what Obama himself said about his education in that backward country, that's your prerogative. I could really care less.

When over 86% of the population is Muslim, I don't consider it a "secular" country. But feel free to continue your delusions.
 
Is it, or is it not clear that Obama through not only his father, step father, and grandfather had as much introduction to Islam in his formative years as any Christian child?

j-mac
 
Gill said:
When over 86% of the population is Muslim, I don't consider it a "secular" country. But feel free to continue your delusions.
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So do you consider the USA a secular country?
 
Gill said:
Look... I already said I know NOTHING about Indonesian schools and frankly could care less about Indonesia.
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Then why don't you take it from someone who DOES know something about the schools there?

Ignorant conservative blog ??? I didn't realize that Obama's "Dreams from my Father" was an "ignorant conservative blog".
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Cite page, please? Again, he was a small child who was not fluent in the language of instruction, that being Bahasa Indonesia.

If you care to not believe what Obama himself said about his education in that backward country, that's your prerogative. I could really care less.
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Bigoted much? Indonesia has FIVE official religions. Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Catholicism and Protestantism. ALL FIVE are discussed in their religious awareness classes. It is part of the national curriculum. You can wallow in ignorance or you can actually open your mind and listen to someone who actually KNOWS about the educational system there because he has done research about it, sat in classes, spoke with educators and can actually communicate in the language.

However, if you prefer to remain ignorant, that is your choice.

When over 86% of the population is Muslim, I don't consider it a "secular" country. But feel free to continue your delusions.
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What percentage of Americans are Christian? Indonesia was very much secular in public instutions during the days of Suharto.
 
ludahai said:
You have already admitted that you don't know anything about Indonesian education.
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Yes, but unlike you, I know how to read. Indonesia is 86% Muslim. The U.S. is 58% Christian.
 
Remember folks...

You can't be born gay

But you can be born a specific religion

:roll:

Regardless of whether or not that religion dictates you're "one of theirs", faith is an entirely self made entity and designation. If you have never considered yourself Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Zoroastrian, Hindu, or whatever else have you then you're not Christian, Jewish, Muslims, etc.

Amazing thing that, no "holy book" is law or some kind of definitive absolute unquestionable truth. The fact the Muslim holy book says the child of a muslim man is Muslim doesn't magically make it a universal truth.

See, I live in America. We have this thing called freedom. I'm not going to back handed slander someone to try and benefit the idiot conspiracy theorist by insisting he is, or was, something he states he never was simply because some holy book says by their view he is. Great for them. By my view, as an American, and a belief in choice, Barack Obama has never considered himself Muslim and therefore is not muslim.
 
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