• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

Barbbtx said:
The media is misrepresenting or at the very least they are only pandering to one side.
All I hear is about the protestors is Anti-Muslim, Islamaphobic,Obamaphobic or both, Bigoted, Hatemongers, Fearmongers, Right Wing Racists, they don't understand the Constitution, don't they believe in freedom of religion, they're listening to Palin,Rush, Newt, Fox is ginning up the hate, they are misinformed ..........on and on
Never having a dialoge about real reasons the Mosque is opposed by so many.
Never questioning the motives of those who are so adament about building the Mosque on that very spot and none other will satisfy them. Why there?? Because they have a right? Is that the best excuse they can come up with?

Why does the media question the motives of the protestors but not those in favor of it?
Click to expand...

Oh...I know this one...like some on the right and their kneejerk responses to Obama, there is a kneejerk response to the ideological left to support ANY and EVERYTHING the 'right' opposes.
 
Barbbtx said:
The media is misrepresenting or at the very least they are only pandering to one side.
All I hear is about the protestors is Anti-Muslim, Islamaphobic,Obamaphobic or both, Bigoted, Hatemongers, Fearmongers, Right Wing Racists, they don't understand the Constitution, don't they believe in freedom of religion, they're listening to Palin,Rush, Newt, Fox is ginning up the hate, they are misinformed ..........on and on
Never having a dialoge about real reasons the Mosque is opposed by so many.
Never questioning the motives of those who are so adament about building the Mosque on that very spot and none other will satisfy them. Why there?? Because they have a right? Is that the best excuse they can come up with?

Why does the media question the motives of the protestors but not those in favor of it?
Click to expand...

let's address this
maybe one exists, but i am unaware of any offer being made to this organization to provide an equal or better locale for their intended facility?
if not, this would be a ripe moment for somebody to play hero, while defusing the situation. it would require a very decent alternate location for the muslim group to consider such a substitute footprint for their facility, and allow them to save face by agreeing to accept it
but again i ask ... has such an adequate counter proposal been tendered?
 
justabubba said:
let's address this
maybe one exists, but i am unaware of any offer being made to this organization to provide an equal or better locale for their intended facility?
if not, this would be a ripe moment for somebody to play hero, while defusing the situation. it would require a very decent alternate location for the muslim group to consider such a substitute footprint for their facility, and allow them to save face by agreeing to accept it
but again i ask ... has such an adequate counter proposal been tendered?
Click to expand...

Yep...Governor Patterson waded in to resolve this a week ago. Better land...better deal (from what i understand).
 
VanceMack said:
Yep...Governor Patterson waded in to resolve this a week ago. Better land...better deal (from what i understand).
Click to expand...
Paterson knows a good deal when he sees it.

Oh, wait ... :doh
 
Coronado said:
Paterson knows a good deal when he sees it.

Oh, wait ... :doh
Click to expand...

Snide comment aside...it doesnt change the fact that he offered an alternative solution...something no one else in this case has done.
 
VanceMack said:
Snide comment aside...it doesnt change the fact that he offered an alternative solution...something no one else in this case has done.
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, neither the Imam or his wife are even willing to meet and discuss a different location. I really thought Patterson's offer was going to be the answer to this mess.
All it's done is raise more questions about their motives.
 
I apologize if this has already been stated.

Since religion is based on faith and submission to a higher power how can someone that doesn't know about or practice the religion (like a newborn) be follower of the religion?
 
Last edited:
Gibberish said:
I apologize if this has already been stated.

Since religion is based on faith and submission to a higher power how can someone that doesn't know about or practice the religion (like a newborn) be follower of the religion?
Click to expand...

Read the OP quote and you will see your position agrees with reverand Graham.
 
VanceMack said:
Read the OP quote and you will see your position agrees with reverand Graham.
Click to expand...

Graham appears to be saying the exact opposite of what I just said. Graham stated that Obama was born Muslim and later renounced the religion and then doubtfully suggests Obama is a Christian.

I am saying specifically that no one can be born religious. Religion is a learned ideal, not an instinct.
 
Gibberish said:
Graham appears to be saying the exact opposite of what I just said. Graham stated that Obama was born Muslim and later renounced the religion and then doubtfully suggests Obama is a Christian.

I am saying specifically that no one can be born religious. Religion is a learned ideal, not an instinct.
Click to expand...

And if you have followed ANY of this thread you would recognize that whether YOU agree with it or not there ARE Muslim sects that believe born a muslim once a muslim, always a muslim, and denouncing the muslim faith is tantamount to signing your own death certificate. 'I' dont agree with them...you dont...but THEY do. Hence the confusion part. The SUPPORTIVE part is reverand Graham acknowledging he has DENOUNCED the muslim faith and accepted Christ and therefore a Christian.
 
VanceMack said:
The SUPPORTIVE part is reverand Graham acknowledging he has DENOUNCED the muslim faith and accepted Christ and therefore a Christian.
Click to expand...

Obama was never a Muslim to begin with to denounce his "Muslim faith". He never had the faith to begin with, I don't recall him ever mentioning he prayed or fasted or gave zakhat!

If tomorrow I left Islam and converted to Christianity then yes I denounced my "Muslim faith" because prior to that, I followed the pillars of Islam

He just converted to Christianity.
 
Laila said:
Obama was never a Muslim to begin with to denounce his "Muslim faith". He never had the faith to begin with, I don't recall him ever mentioning he prayed or fasted or gave zakhat!

If tomorrow I left Islam and converted to Christianity then yes I denounced my "Muslim faith" because prior to that, I followed the pillars of Islam

He just converted to Christianity.
Click to expand...

So NO Muslims believe you are born into your fathers faith?

I think it has been pretty well established...not ALL muslim sects, like not all Christian sects...view things the same way. Because you or I personally disagree with it doesnt make it real to others. Nor does it necessarily make it real to Obama...lets accept that as well. I dont think thats what Graham was saying.
 
VanceMack said:
So NO Muslims believe you are born into your fathers faith?

I think it has been pretty well established...not ALL muslim sects, like not all Christian sects...view things the same way. Because you or I personally disagree with it doesnt make it real to others. Nor does it necessarily make it real to Obama...lets accept that as well. I dont think thats what Graham was saying.
Click to expand...

Ofc some do ... doesn't mean they are right tho.
As that isn't what makes someone a Muslim according to the Qu'ran and hadiths. The articles and pillars are the foundation of what makes someone a Muslim. Not having the luck of being born by the semen of a man who happens to be a Muslim.
 
Laila;1058941181[B said:
]Ofc some do ... doesn't mean they are right tho.[/B]
As that isn't what makes someone a Muslim according to the Qu'ran and hadiths. The articles and pillars are the foundation of what makes someone a Muslim. Not having the luck of being born by the semen of a man who happens to be a Muslim.
Click to expand...

I think thats all that was being said. Some do...and some have no real understanding whatsoever of ANY of the what the Muslim people actually believe. And THAT is one of the reasons why there are so many problems.

And look...lets be honest...thats JUST one of the reasons. Accepting that there are a LOT on the radical right that are willing to believe ANYTHING about Obama the fact is he INVITES this kind of thing. He promised 'transparency...thats out the window. He makes appeasement statements on his trips to the middle east. Hell the question of his very birth was dragged out for years and HE bears the blame. His school records...vanished. His school writings...vanished. Hell people can find out more about ME online in a few keystrokes then they can about him. He makes up stories (some people call that lying) to play to whichever crown he is hanging out with...

bah...I still dont believe he is a Christian. Or a Muslim.
 
VanceMack said:
And if you have followed ANY of this thread you would recognize that whether YOU agree with it or not there ARE Muslim sects that believe born a muslim once a muslim, always a muslim, and denouncing the muslim faith is tantamount to signing your own death certificate. 'I' dont agree with them...you dont...but THEY do. Hence the confusion part. The SUPPORTIVE part is reverand Graham acknowledging he has DENOUNCED the muslim faith and accepted Christ and therefore a Christian.
Click to expand...

Was Obama part of these specific Muslim denominations? If Mormons (who are Christians) believe everyone is born Mormon does that mean all Christians are born Mormon until they denounce the Mormon religion and choose another denomination?
 
Last edited:
Gibberish said:
Was Obama part oftheses specific Muslim denominations? If Mormons (who are Christians) believe everyone is born Mormon does that mean all Christians are born Mormon until they denounce the Mormon religion and choose another denomination?
Click to expand...

Holybat****thatshwatIhavebeensaying...
 
Gibberish said:
Ok then we are in an agreement. Graham is illogical when he says Obam was born Muslim.
Click to expand...

Graham was stating what some people...muslims and non muslims alike...perceive as a fact. Whether it is or isnt to you or me is immaterial. Some people believe that an infant doused during a catholic baptism is then catholic. Are they?

Holy crap...
 
RightinNYC said:
Even if this is 100% true, what's the point in talking about it? Exactly what is he hoping to accomplish?
Click to expand...

At a guess I would assume he is attempting to gain Publicity.

Apart from being some holy roller's son, who is he, what if anything has he accomplished?
 
jujuman13 said:
At a guess I would assume he is attempting to gain Publicity.

Apart from being some holy roller's son, who is he, what if anything has he accomplished?
Click to expand...

Ummm...picked up the telephone? Responded to a CNN reporters question?
Yeah...what a ****ing gloryhound...
 
Why is it you conservatives can manage to make a 40 page thread about if Obama is really Christian or not (not to mention probably another 5 threads like this one) but not one damn thread about the economy?
 
JohnWOlin said:
Why is it you conservatives can manage to make a 40 page thread about if Obama is really Christian or not (not to mention probably another 5 threads like this one) but not one damn thread about the economy?
Click to expand...

Yes John. We did it all ourselves. Have you even bothered to check the ratio of liberal postings vs conservative in this thread? Include yourself in the former

The debate was over pages ago. Some on the left simply refuse to admit it.
 
texmaster said:
Yes John. We did it all ourselves. Have you even bothered to check the ratio of liberal postings vs conservative in this thread? Include yourself in the former

The debate was over pages ago. Some on the left simply refuse to admit it.
Click to expand...

Admit what? That certain people are attempting to reject someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as his lord and savior....
 
winston53660 said:
Admit what? That certain people are attempting to reject someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as his lord and savior....
Click to expand...

What are you talking about?

Some of you libs really do like inventing things your opponents never say don't you.

Who has said in this thread they are rejecting obama because they think he is Muslim and not because of his politics?

Go ahead, produce the quote.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom