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Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

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Harshaw said:
I don't think she said they were leaders in the church, only that they were Christians and leaders.

Gallileo was a devout Catholic (and the Church didn't even have it out for him, only Bellarmine did).

Newton was one of the very first to postulate that the Earth was 6000 years old based on the Bible.

Einstein wasn't Christian, obviously, but he was religious.

Franklin, Washington, and Jefferson were Christians, whatever qualifiers you want to put on it.
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Not sure what you're talking about, but I was saying there were lots of educated early Christians and this is where a lot of the great scientific discoveries came from. Priests were educated, too, as an afterthought of mine to show that they had to be educated to become a priest.

Martin Luther was a lawyer and some such as was he a priest. But the church educates all their priests and not just in religion.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
It's always been Christian leadership and brains. I don't think it was luck. Where have all the great minds and inventions come from?

All the Catholic leaders were highly educated. Not just anybody can be a priest.

In other words, it ain't gonna happen for Muslims.
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Just so as to not be misunderstood, I believe Muslims can do anything anybody can do, but since they didn't have the one authority it didn't happen for them in the past, but nowadays it can and probably will. Have to wait and see. We know they want to go nuclear, so time will tell.
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Marilyn Monroe said:
Wasn't the part about the priests in a different paragraph. Did you get the point? Lots of very educated Christians. It wasn't just luck.
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Yes the availability of literacy through the monks was a driving factor in their ability to become educated but this wasn't due to religious teachings. It was due to the Church's want to exand their power. You could not believe a word of the Holy Bible and still become educated and be labeled a Christian. Most of these people studied science and propsed ideas considered blasphemous by church officials.

Europeans in general have been more advanced for two thousand years thanks to Roman expansion ( under paganism for a large portion of time ). They needed to be advanced to be more effienct in war for territory expansion and building their large cities. The Chinese and Japaense cultures were also very advanced and for a longer period of time.

The ME countries have a major issue with division of power. Untill those with power (The clerics) wish to extend it to the majority of people or those people wish toriseup and take it from their religious leaders, like Christians did decades ago, nothing will change.

My point is Christianity (the beliefs) didn't drive education. The increased availability of education and literacy did. Thankfully the Church leaders saw the value in educated priests for expanding their religion. This led to many educated people all over Europe and increased the literacy levels of the populace allowing for the scientist of the day to become scientists.
 
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BDBoop said:
Are you saying you have already read everything he just aimed you at, or are you operating from a place of willful ignorance.
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You're a rude lady, madame.

The reason christians may have 'advanced' is because of those of us who are not christians. Don't give your religion credit where it deserves none. Secularism is everything you have to be happy for. Also, read a book on islam or something. Please. At least wikipedia. Dont generalise the anti-woman laws of a few arab countries for 1.5 million muslims.
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Does this make sense to you? Secularism is everything I have to be happy for. I'm not reading anything this person tells me to read, when he didn't even make sense, and may not really know what he's talking about. He sounds angry, as do you. Maybe you should take a break.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
It's always been Christian leadership and brains. I don't think it was luck. Where have all the great minds and inventions come from?

All the Catholic leaders were highly educated. Not just anybody can be a priest.

In other words, it ain't gonna happen for Muslims.
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I don’t believe that religion has ever been the engine of invention. We call it the Enlightenment because people were being enlightened that the Catholic dogma about secular matters was wrong. This enlightenment came about as a consequence of commerce, not because of religious scholarship. I think that you would be hard pressed to find examples where religious belief drove technological or social advancement. What has tended to be the case is that when the beliefs of the dominant religion begins to conflict with economic, social, or political pressures; either the religion morphs or it is replaced with a new religion (or splinter religion). Too often, religion is the tool of oppression and stagnation not the force for invention.
 
Gibberish said:
Yes the availability of literacy through the monks was a driving factor in their ability to become educated but this wasn't due to religious teachings. It was due to the Church's want to exand their power. You could not believe a word of the Holy Bible and still become educated and be labeled a Christian. Most of these people studied science and propsed ideas considered blasphemous by church officials.

Europeans in general have been more advanced for two thousand years thanks to Roman expansion ( under paganism for a large portion of time ). They needed to be advanced to be more effienct in war for territory expansion and building their large cities. The Chinese and Japaense cultures were also very advanced and for a longer period of time.

The ME countries have a major issue with division of power. Untill those with power (The clerics) wish to extend it to the majority of people or those people wish toriseup and take it from their religious leaders, like Christians did decades ago, nothing will change.
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Ok, forget about the priests being educated. I was really not saying they did any inventing, just that they weren't dumb. They didn't do snake dances. It's a joke! They did do exorcisms though and Baptisms, which is really an exorcism.

The inventions did come from Europe, and of course America which used to have a lot of Christians when these bigtime Industrial Age inventions came to be. Jews have also been instrumental in science and research.
 
zip98053 said:
I don’t believe that religion has ever been the engine of invention. We call it the Enlightenment because people were being enlightened that the Catholic dogma about secular matters was wrong. This enlightenment came about as a consequence of commerce, not because of religious scholarship. I think that you would be hard pressed to find examples where religious belief drove technological or social advancement. What has tended to be the case is that when the beliefs of the dominant religion begins to conflict with economic, social, or political pressures; either the religion morphs or it is replaced with a new religion (or splinter religion). Too often, religion is the tool of oppression and stagnation not the force for invention.
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The Catholic church learned long ago it needs to morph with the populace to stay relevant and in power. As it should. Religion is mostly a belief system based on interpreation and interpretations can change and so the church should mold these changes into their core beliefs.

Nothing good can come for them if they are fighting with those they count on to survive.
 
The topic is part of the propaganda the ruler of this country to fool the people.

Obama picked up to be president to show US is a democratic country. There is no racism, see, we have a black president. This is especially needed after US started its Mid-east war.

Same tactic to push up the debate of Mosque in Ground Zero. See, how tolerance we are even they attacked us, we still build a mosque for them. This is especially needed when they are preparing another war - war on Iran.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
You're really digging aren't you? We live in a free country, go find this freedom in Muslim countries.
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Then why are you against their freedom of religion? Are you saying they are free to worship - just only where you want them to?
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
It's always been Christian leadership and brains. I don't think it was luck. Where have all the great minds and inventions come from?

All the Catholic leaders were highly educated. Not just anybody can be a priest.

In other words, it ain't gonna happen for Muslims.
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Please read, my dear:

Inventions in medieval Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, things like Algebra, Chemistry, and Astronomy? Those seem a little vital to you? Thank a Muslim for that. Oh, and for lipstick.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Please read, my dear:

Inventions in medieval Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, things like Algebra, Chemistry, and Astronomy? Those seem a little vital to you? Thank a Muslim for that. Oh, and for lipstick.
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LOL Never trust an open source for your information Guy.

Ever heard of Aristotle? You remember him from school right? Avicenna (980-1037) and Averroes (1128-1190) built on his work in Astronomy. Christians saved his work from the Dark ages by Probus of Antioch in the 5th century who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic world along with Christian Huneyn ibn Ishaw (809-973) who not only translated Aristotle by Galen, Plano and Hippocrates into Syriac which his son then traslated into Arabic.

The Jacobite Christian Yahya ibn Adi (893-974) also translated the works of philosophy into Arabic.

Andreas Vesalius (1514-1564) paved the way for modern medical advances by publishing the first accurate descritption of human organs De Humani Corporis Fabrica. It was him and not the Muslim world because his faith did not preclude autopsies something forbidden in Islam.

As far as Algebra, Abu Ja'far Muhhamad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi (780-850) considered one of the greatest mathmatitions in history and where the term "algorithm" comes from gathered his material including the zero from pre Islamic India hundreds of years earlier.

So yes there were great accomplishments but they were born from other people's work from Europe and India.
 
texmaster said:
LOL Never trust an open source for your information Guy.

Ever heard of Aristotle? You remember him from school right? Avicenna (980-1037) and Averroes (1128-1190) built on his work in Astronomy. Christians saved his work from the Dark ages by Probus of Antioch in the 5th century who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic world along with Christian Huneyn ibn Ishaw (809-973) who not only translated Aristotle by Galen, Plano and Hippocrates into Syriac which his son then traslated into Arabic.

The Jacobite Christian Yahya ibn Adi (893-974) also translated the works of philosophy into Arabic.

Andreas Vesalius (1514-1564) paved the way for modern medical advances by publishing the first accurate descritption of human organs De Humani Corporis Fabrica. It was him and not the Muslim world because his faith did not preclude autopsies something forbidden in Islam.

As far as Algebra, Abu Ja'far Muhhamad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi (780-850) considered one of the greatest mathmatitions in history and where the term "algorithm" comes from gathered his material including the zero from pre Islamic India hundreds of years earlier.

So yes there were great accomplishments but they were born from other people's work from Europe and India.
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Yeah. It's wiki, I know. But to claim that Christians invented everything and Muslims nothing is so childish, that wiki is source enough to disprove it.
 
JakeFromWI said:
He has been observed eating before sun down - yes. However, I have recently been notified via another forum that it - "Doesn’t matter. Muslims allow this if you are fooling infidels."

Good Grief.
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Barbbtx said:
Don't know, but I just realized something. I have a lying A hole for a friend! She says she is Jewish. I've seen her eat ham before. OMG, I just remembered something else! At my house she would always take a hotdog off the grill and eat it while we were waiting on chicken or burgers. She never once asked if I had puchased all beef weinies!
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So, what you're saying is the President isn't a "true" Muslim because he doesn't follow the religion religiously. I'd have to say that line of thinking kinda blows a hole is the "fear-factor" aspect of the "the President is a Muslim" claim don't you think? I mean, it's the fear angle that many are using, i.e., Muslim extremist, insistance on applying Shariah Law = Muslims...bad, no matter how you slice it and that's wrong. Besides, even if he is a Muslim, it's his choice under the Constitution to choose for himself (and his family to a degree) to practise whatever religious faith he chooses.

Here's an interesting question...something that hasn't been asked yet...

If the President is a Muslim, why don't we see the 1st Family dressing in traditional female Muslim attire? Wouldn't they have to comply to the basic tenants as well? Just asking questions...
 
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BDBoop said:
No, I'm not digging at all. Freedom of religion. Muslims are everywhere, you can't say Muslim countries and say that's how things are, that's who they are and what they do.

By the way? My niece-in-law is Muslim, as is one of my business partners.
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What you just said about ,"you can't say Muslim countries and say that's how things are, that's who they are and what they do" doesn't make sense to me. As far as having relatives and business partners, what has that got to do with what we're talking about?
 
zip98053 said:
I don’t believe that religion has ever been the engine of invention. We call it the Enlightenment because people were being enlightened that the Catholic dogma about secular matters was wrong. This enlightenment came about as a consequence of commerce, not because of religious scholarship. I think that you would be hard pressed to find examples where religious belief drove technological or social advancement. What has tended to be the case is that when the beliefs of the dominant religion begins to conflict with economic, social, or political pressures; either the religion morphs or it is replaced with a new religion (or splinter religion). Too often, religion is the tool of oppression and stagnation not the force for invention.
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Moreso with Muslims.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
Please read, my dear:

The Myth of Islamic Inventions
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That blog holds as much credibility as something that is, well, not that credible. Okay, maybe my metaphor skills could use a little work.

That blog is an islamiphobist piece of garbage with no real use anywhere. And I'm not using Islamiphobist lightly here. It's pretty appropriate when talking about that blog.
 
About the Islamic customs for women's attire: There are places where woman are mistreated, beaten, killed for not following the rules. Obviously, that's awful. But, many muslim women dress that way because they feel it is appropriate. We have clothing laws and it would be terrible if a woman was beaten or killed because she went out naked. But that doesn't make wearing clothes wrong or oppressive. Are we to assume that Joseph beat Mary into covering her head? Or was she pure and reverent and chaste? Hmmm... All of the harsh judgements about Islam come from lack of knowledge=fear. The people with the radical opinions are not friendly with Muslims, so they know nothing but what the pundits tell them. I have had many muslim friends, women and men, and have found them to be charitable, good people. Many of the women, no parents here, no husband, choose to cover their heads. Leave it alone.
 
You know you make your opponents point any time you point at something like that, don't you? Maybe not. It's like saying, "See, I believe anything the radicals tell me, because I didn't think History was important, so I have no reference point. I don't know where they got their information. I just read it and believe it, because it makes me feel better about the opinions I already decided to go with."
 
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texmaster said:
LOL Never trust an open source for your information Guy.

Ever heard of Aristotle? You remember him from school right? Avicenna (980-1037) and Averroes (1128-1190) built on his work in Astronomy. Christians saved his work from the Dark ages by Probus of Antioch in the 5th century who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic world along with Christian Huneyn ibn Ishaw (809-973) who not only translated Aristotle by Galen, Plano and Hippocrates into Syriac which his son then traslated into Arabic.
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LOL nice rewriting of history there.... putting Christianity into a positive light and Muslims in a negative. The Dark Ages.. why were they the dark ages? Because Christianity ran amok in Europe killing off or exiling anyone with half a brain. They forced converted non Christians and banned non Christian texts. It was only because of brave people, Christian and non Christian, that the texts survived outside the cestpool called Christian Europe of the dark ages.

The Jacobite Christian Yahya ibn Adi (893-974) also translated the works of philosophy into Arabic.
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And? Christian's still did not write those philosophical works.. heathens did!

Andreas Vesalius (1514-1564) paved the way for modern medical advances by publishing the first accurate descritption of human organs De Humani Corporis Fabrica. It was him and not the Muslim world because his faith did not preclude autopsies something forbidden in Islam.
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So because he published the first accurate description of human organs then Muslims did in no way contribute to medicine? You should go back to your history classes and get a refund, because many of the basic tools we use today in surgery were originally invented by muslims.. ups.

As far as Algebra, Abu Ja'far Muhhamad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi (780-850) considered one of the greatest mathmatitions in history and where the term "algorithm" comes from gathered his material including the zero from pre Islamic India hundreds of years earlier.
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And that some how makes his contribution less important?

So yes there were great accomplishments but they were born from other people's work from Europe and India.
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And? Far from all... you have been very selective in your comments. You forgot Astrology for one.. wonder why.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Yeah. It's wiki, I know. But to claim that Christians invented everything and Muslims nothing is so childish, that wiki is source enough to disprove it.
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You are welcome to demonstate the error in wiki.
 
PeteEU said:
LOL nice rewriting of history there.... putting Christianity into a positive light and Muslims in a negative. The Dark Ages.. why were they the dark ages? Because Christianity ran amok in Europe killing off or exiling anyone with half a brain. They forced converted non Christians and banned non Christian texts. It was only because of brave people, Christian and non Christian, that the texts survived outside the cestpool called Christian Europe of the dark ages.
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Another anti-Christian rant. Actually, it was the non-Christian Vikings, Magyars and Arabs who were running amok through Europe during the 'Dark Ages' randomly pillaging and killing for about 300-400 years...
 
ludahai said:
Another anti-Christian rant. Actually, it was the non-Christian Vikings, Magyars and Arabs who were running amok through Europe during the 'Dark Ages' randomly pillaging and killing for about 300-400 years...
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Both of you are right.
 
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