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Last US Combat Troops Leave Iraq

Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

bub said:
Indeed, how much did it cost? $1,000 billions? Isn't that around $3 millions/American?




What victory?

Find WMD's? They never existed!
Spread democracy? Iraq is still one of the most corrupted country on earth, it's not a democracy today and it's not likely that they'll ever be a democracy!
Bring security? Iraq has never been a threat to the USA and dozens of Iraqi civilians are killed every week! How many died on this week's terror attack?

So if you think it's still a victory, please define "victory"!
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Wars don't wrap up in a neat little package like Halo.

Unless you want to break out the nukes.

We won't know for a long time.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

Goobieman said:
The total cost of the war in Iraq is less that the -increase- in entitlement spending in The Obama's first year in office.
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Still a lot, especially when you see the results

The one where the threat that was Saddam was eliminated
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YouTube - Family Guy - Visiting Ground Zero

anf Iraq was left as a self-standing democracy.
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116 Iraq 4.00 Hybrid regime Parliamentary Republic
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Democracy Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're 116 out of 167 and if they had 0.01 point less it would be considered as "authoritarian". But if you compare with friendly allies like Kuwait (129 ; 3.39 ;Authoritarian regime) or Saudi Arabia (161 ; 1.90 Authoritarian regime ; Islamic absolute monarchy), yeah I guess you can nearly call Iraq "democratic"

However if you compare the civil rights, Iraqi are even less free than Iranians!!!!
Freedom in the World (report) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for corruption, only Afghanistan and Somalia score less than our cherished Iraqi democracy
Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

bub said:
They're 116 out of 167 and if they had 0.01 point less it would be considered as "authoritarian". But if you compare with friendly allies like Kuwait (129 ; 3.39 ;Authoritarian regime) or Saudi Arabia (161 ; 1.90 Authoritarian regime ; Islamic absolute monarchy), yeah I guess you can nearly call Iraq "democratic"

However if you compare the civil rights, Iraqi are even less free than Iranians!!!!
Freedom in the World (report) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for corruption, only Afghanistan and Somalia score less than our cherished Iraqi democracy
Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I'll wager that most proponents of Iraqi democracy aren't resting their hopes on its current situation, but rather what it could become over time.


edit: Moreover, I don't think the relevant comparison is current Iraq to its current neighbors, but current Iraq to pre-war Iraq. According to Freedom House, it's substantially more free today than it was in 2002.
 
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Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

RightinNYC said:
I'll wager that most proponents of Iraqi democracy aren't resting their hopes on its current situation, but rather what it could become over time.


edit: Moreover, I don't think the relevant comparison is current Iraq to its current neighbors, but current Iraq to pre-war Iraq. According to Freedom House, it's substantially more free today than it was in 2002.
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How could there be more progress in the future than there have been in 7 years under US occupation? In order to have democracy you need stability, and they're more than likely to sink into a civil war.

As for the comparison with some neighboring countries, it's to show the hypocrisy of invading a country under the pretext of "spreading democracy" while your best ally in the region is the most dictatorial regime in the world, next to North Korea.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

Goobieman said:
THis is supposed to be a thoughtful response to what I said?
I overestimated you. My apologies. It wont happen again.
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I can write it down for you then: why did the USA invade Iraq under the pretext that Saddam was a threat, while he is one of the few countries in the M/E that had absolutely nothing to do with the 911 terror attacks?
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

bub said:
I can write it down for you then: why did the USA invade Iraq under the pretext that Saddam was a threat, while he is one of the few countries in the M/E that had absolutely nothing to do with the 911 terror attacks?
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LOL, when was THAT proven?

When you give someone almost a year of advanced notice while you beg and plead the UN to follow through after Hussein's repeated dismissals of their inspection requirements........you can move WMD anywhere you want. You can make them virtually disappear.

One day, we'll know the truth in all of this...maybe. Right now, we don't.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

bub said:
How could there be more progress in the future than there have been in 7 years under US occupation? In order to have democracy you need stability, and they're more than likely to sink into a civil war.
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At least we'll have a good launching pad when we attack Iran.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

Erod said:
LOL, when was THAT proven?

When you give someone almost a year of advanced notice while you beg and plead the UN to follow through after Hussein's repeated dismissals of their inspection requirements........you can move weapons anywhere you want.
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The question I love to ask:
When Clinton went to war against Iraq in December 1998, we knew he had WMDs, WMD production facilities, et al. In 2003, they were, apparently, gone.
Where did they go?
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

bub said:
How could there be more progress in the future than there have been in 7 years under US occupation? In order to have democracy you need stability, and they're more than likely to sink into a civil war.
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That's certainly one possible outcome, but I think by acknowledging that it's only a possibility, you've answered your first question.

As for the comparison with some neighboring countries, it's to show the hypocrisy of invading a country under the pretext of "spreading democracy" while your best ally in the region is the most dictatorial regime in the world, next to North Korea.
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Which ally is that?

bub said:
I can write it down for you then: why did the USA invade Iraq under the pretext that Saddam was a threat, while he is one of the few countries in the M/E that had absolutely nothing to do with the 911 terror attacks?
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Because the Iraq War wasn't about 9/11?
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

RightinNYC said:
Which ally is that?
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Saudi Arabia

Because the Iraq War wasn't about 9/11?
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It was the second step. Anyways it was not a threat, and the documents that showed links between Iraq and Al Quaeda were forgeries.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

bub said:
Saudi Arabia
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How on earth is Saudi Arabia our "best ally in the region"?

It was the second step. Anyways it was not a threat, and the documents that showed links between Iraq and Al Quaeda were forgeries.
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See, I thought we invaded Iraq because of faulty intelligence on WMDs and Saddam's continued violation of UN resolutions. Who knew that it was because of 9/11 and Al Qaida?
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

bub said:
How could there be more progress in the future than there have been in 7 years under US occupation? In order to have democracy you need stability, and they're more than likely to sink into a civil war.
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Civil war is a distinct possibility. Our remaining 50,000 troops are there to help prevent things from deteriorating again. Our troops are there to help bring lasting stability. Lasting stability is needed for democracy, you are correct. The way to lasting stability is reconciliation between the Sunnis and the Shia. Our diplomats are trying to help that. The link I posted on Shia militias shows a picture of what is working against it, on the Shia side. AQI is opposing it from the Sunni side and trying like hell to destabilize.

What would you do at this point in time?

As for the comparison with some neighboring countries, it's to show the hypocrisy of invading a country under the pretext of "spreading democracy" while your best ally in the region is the most dictatorial regime in the world, next to North Korea.
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I thought Israel was our best ally in the region. :roll:
 
funny how the last troops left the country..... yet they dont really mentino the mercenaries that are left to clean it all up
 
The last troops didn't leave the country. There are still 50K+ troops there who are just as heavily armed as any "combat" brigade.

What will be interesting is the explanation of how our troops engaged in combat after the last combat troops left. 'Coz that's going to happen sooner or later. Strikes me as another "Mission Accomplished" moment.
 
Your Star said:
Yeah, it was. But back to the point, if Iraq has a civil war, why should we step in?
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I dunno, for the same reason that we should have stepped in three years prior to 1941? Just imagine how many lives would have been saved.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

Groucho said:
What will Olberman say at the end of each of his shows now?!!!!
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NBC and MSNBC's Olberman and Maddow will have the satisfaction of being the only news organization to live broadcast the last of the combat troops leaving Iraq and the end of the war on Iraq. The other news stations seem to have been completely caught off guard and didn't have any reporters there to witness this momentous event.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

Goobieman said:
The question I love to ask:
When Clinton went to war against Iraq in December 1998, we knew he had WMDs, WMD production facilities, et al. In 2003, they were, apparently, gone.
Where did they go?
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Actually, in 1998 the public was led to believe by the political junta that Iraq had WMDs, but they knew they really didn't. They just used WMDs as an excuse to keep the sanctions on Iraq in place, just like they used WMDs as an excuse to attack Iraq in 2003. We were all duped.
 
political_signs said:
funny how the last troops left the country..... yet they dont really mentino the mercenaries that are left to clean it all up
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I assume the "private contractors" won't be under US jurisdiction anymore and will now have to comply with Iraqi government authority and laws (such as they are) if they chose to remain.
 
I am glad we are slowly giving the Iraqis back their country and I am sure the years to come they will continue to be a strong ally in the region. Now we need to wrap up Afghanistan, go to the part of Africa where al-Quaeda is heading and hopefully within the next 3 years everyone can come home and have a party.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

Moot said:
NBC and MSNBC's Olberman and Maddow will have the satisfaction of being the only news organization to live broadcast the last of the combat troops leaving Iraq and the end of the war on Iraq. The other news stations seem to have been completely caught off guard and didn't have any reporters there to witness this momentous event.
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Probably because it's only a "momentous" event on paper.
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

RightinNYC said:
Probably because it's only a "momentous" event on paper.
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You mean just like "Mission accomplished" on an aircraft carrier?
 
Re: Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

PeteEU said:
You mean just like "Mission accomplished" on an aircraft carrier?
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The aircraft carrier accomplished its mission.
 
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