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Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional

tlmorg02 said:
Then this country has lost all sense of civility. The logical place to protest the war would be in Washington or at the steps of the government, these people are simply harassing.
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This country never had a sense of civility. Our politicians used to shoot each other in duels. :roll:
 
apdst said:
All the Constitutional rights supporters are strangely quiet on this thread. Trully Amazing!
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Your selective reading of this thread is hilarious:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...funerals-unconstitutional.html#post1058924604
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nerals-unconstitutional-2.html#post1058924724
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nerals-unconstitutional-2.html#post1058924747
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nerals-unconstitutional-2.html#post1058924783

Basically, the same people who grasp the first amendment issue with the mosque understand the first amendment issue with WBC. They're assholes, but they're assholes with free speech.

WHy is this so hard for you?

Actually, I find it is mostly conservatives who want to shut these folks down, in both cases.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Your selective reading of this thread is hilarious:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...funerals-unconstitutional.html#post1058924604
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nerals-unconstitutional-2.html#post1058924724
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nerals-unconstitutional-2.html#post1058924747
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nerals-unconstitutional-2.html#post1058924783

Basically, the same people who grasp the first amendment issue with the mosque understand the first amendment issue with WBC. They're assholes, but they're assholes with free speech.

WHy is this so hard for you?

Actually, I find it is mostly conservatives who want to shut these folks down, in both cases.
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Yeah, when you finally find a problem with liberals, we'll start a whole party thread on it just for you. It'll be a once in a lifetime event.
 
Jet, I'd respond, but really there's no reason to. Thank you for demonstrating my ponit. You rationalize why you doing it is okay and why others doing it isn't. That's fine and all, but in the end its a rationalization. I could go on a flip side and give you a rationalization why they're correct with regards to the mosque and why you're wrong. Utlimately though, all of it is rationalizing to make yourself feel good about YOUR feelings. Which is okay. What's not okay is when people have the attitude that their ratioanlization for one is absolute true and the rationalization for why the other is wrong is also absolute truth.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Take the personal fight elsewhere please
 
Zyphlin said:
Jet, I'd respond, but really there's no reason to. Thank you for demonstrating my ponit. You rationalize why you doing it is okay and why others doing it isn't. That's fine and all, but in the end its a rationalization. I could go on a flip side and give you a rationalization why they're correct with regards to the mosque and why you're wrong. Utlimately though, all of it is rationalizing to make yourself feel good about YOUR feelings. Which is okay. What's not okay is when people have the attitude that their ratioanlization for one is absolute true and the rationalization for why the other is wrong is also absolute truth.
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I'll take that for a Dollar.
 
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The place where the WTC was is essentially a national monument, akin to the U.S.S. Arizona in Hawaii, a location more apt to be compared to the Washington or Lincoln Monument then it would be any other random vacant lot. It is a place that touches millions of people, an event that almost every American knows about including those that weren't even alive at the time. Within its shadow, within walking distance, within spitting distance from the metro station dedicated to the WTC, a mosque is being erected dedicated to the Religion that was the fuel and justiifcation for those 19 men killing themselves to bring down those towers. It is being built with a name that references a mosque built atop conquested ground. It is stated its being built to "build bridges" but yet every step of the way they are actively seemingly aiming to alienate those they'd need to "build bridges" to, even denying offers for land elsewhere that would quiet complaints and actually allow them to better do what they suggest they want to do. Between these things and the leaders questionable comments and ties its clear that he is a lier and this is a monument for the radical islamic world of the destruction they levied against the west and their success over us. It is a personal insult and an affront to each and every single solitary person that is related to or knew a person that died on that day, and a general insult and affront to every single solitary American that was affected in any way by 9/11. It creates a dark cloud over the entire location, forcing those that go to visit the site of 9/11 to mourn and remember to have to immedietely have the thoughts of the attackers coming to mind as a monument to the "success" of that attack is within a closer distance than it likely took for the individual to walk from their hotel room to a subway stop.

On the flip side you have a group of people affecting a relatively minor about of people, protesting in areas which are not right at the grave site, and who are simply speaking their honest and true beliefs about the ills, wrongs, and attrocities that America inflicts upon the world. I'm just afraid of the slippery slope that condemn them move on to condemn anyone that disagrees with allowing gays to marry.

See, you're incredibly just wrong minded to wish for the constitution to be violated agaisnt people simply doing their patriotic duty by speaking out against the government and pushing us to a slippery slope of condemning a near majority of Americans because they loosely agree with some of the views held by extremists while demanding protection for people erecting a monument in the glory of the greatest attack on America causing emotional pain and damage to hundreds of thousands of Americans and doing damage to the reputation of every moderate muslim.

See, I can rationalize it too...doens't make mine right, but doesn't make it any more wrong then yours either
 
apdst said:
I agree that these folks are scumbag mother****ers, but so are the people building a mosque next to Ground Zero.
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No, that is false, completely false. The two do not compare in any way. Boggles the mind to think anyone would compare the two.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Ah ****. :doh

Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional - CNN.com



You know, I may disagree with the judges ruling, but he's probably not wrong. Much as I hate the Westboro Baptist church and believe me I do. Is it HIGHLY unfortunately their right to do their hateful crap. Unless anyone here has a legal solution to this dilemna? :(

I'd certainly like to hear about it, cause the WBC is bull****, sick bastards. Which is why I have such respect for the patriot guard riders who went out and did what they did for as many families as they could, I thought that was really really cool.
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Those Westboro folks are just insane bigots looking for the spotlight. But the judge here is right and made the right call. Just cause they are insane bigots looking for the spotlight doesn't mean we can shut them up. We could, at the very least, ignore them and rob them of the spotlight though.
 
Ikari said:
Those Westboro folks are just insane bigots looking for the spotlight. But the judge here is right and made the right call. Just cause they are insane bigots looking for the spotlight doesn't mean we can shut them up. We could, at the very least, ignore them and rob them of the spotlight though.
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I agree.

1234567890
 
Boo Radley said:
No, that is false, completely false. The two do not compare in any way. Boggles the mind to think anyone would compare the two.
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Building the Ground Zero mosque is nothing more than an insult to America and the Americans that were murdered on 9/11. This is a monument to victory for the Muslims. That's how it is viewed by many Muslims.
 
Zyphlin said:
The place where the WTC was is essentially a national monument, akin to the U.S.S. Arizona in Hawaii, a location more apt to be compared to the Washington or Lincoln Monument then it would be any other random vacant lot. It is a place that touches millions of people, an event that almost every American knows about including those that weren't even alive at the time. Within its shadow, within walking distance, within spitting distance from the metro station dedicated to the WTC, a mosque is being erected dedicated to the Religion that was the fuel and justiifcation for those 19 men killing themselves to bring down those towers. It is being built with a name that references a mosque built atop conquested ground. It is stated its being built to "build bridges" but yet every step of the way they are actively seemingly aiming to alienate those they'd need to "build bridges" to, even denying offers for land elsewhere that would quiet complaints and actually allow them to better do what they suggest they want to do. Between these things and the leaders questionable comments and ties its clear that he is a lier and this is a monument for the radical islamic world of the destruction they levied against the west and their success over us. It is a personal insult and an affront to each and every single solitary person that is related to or knew a person that died on that day, and a general insult and affront to every single solitary American that was affected in any way by 9/11. It creates a dark cloud over the entire location, forcing those that go to visit the site of 9/11 to mourn and remember to have to immedietely have the thoughts of the attackers coming to mind as a monument to the "success" of that attack is within a closer distance than it likely took for the individual to walk from their hotel room to a subway stop.

On the flip side you have a group of people affecting a relatively minor about of people, protesting in areas which are not right at the grave site, and who are simply speaking their honest and true beliefs about the ills, wrongs, and attrocities that America inflicts upon the world. I'm just afraid of the slippery slope that condemn them move on to condemn anyone that disagrees with allowing gays to marry.

See, you're incredibly just wrong minded to wish for the constitution to be violated agaisnt people simply doing their patriotic duty by speaking out against the government and pushing us to a slippery slope of condemning a near majority of Americans because they loosely agree with some of the views held by extremists while demanding protection for people erecting a monument in the glory of the greatest attack on America causing emotional pain and damage to hundreds of thousands of Americans and doing damage to the reputation of every moderate muslim.

See, I can rationalize it too...doens't make mine right, but doesn't make it any more wrong then yours either
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In short, it's ok to be offensive, as long as it's in the best interest of the country. I'll have to remember that.
 
The ban was probably unconstitutional because it was pleading for special exemption on the right to free speech. There are subtler ways of achieving the same end, though, ones that don't treat it like a matter of free speech one way or the other. For example, argue that such protests constitute harassment. That bypasses the free speech issue altogether.

The place where the WTC was is essentially a national monument, akin to the U.S.S. Arizona in Hawaii, a location more apt to be compared to the Washington or Lincoln Monument then it would be any other random vacant lot. It is a place that touches millions of people, an event that almost every American knows about including those that weren't even alive at the time. Within its shadow, within walking distance, within spitting distance from the metro station dedicated to the WTC, a mosque is being erected dedicated to the Religion that was the fuel and justiifcation for those 19 men killing themselves to bring down those towers. It is being built with a name that references a mosque built atop conquested ground. It is stated its being built to "build bridges" but yet every step of the way they are actively seemingly aiming to alienate those they'd need to "build bridges" to, even denying offers for land elsewhere that would quiet complaints and actually allow them to better do what they suggest they want to do. Between these things and the leaders questionable comments and ties its clear that he is a lier and this is a monument for the radical islamic world of the destruction they levied against the west and their success over us. It is a personal insult and an affront to each and every single solitary person that is related to or knew a person that died on that day, and a general insult and affront to every single solitary American that was affected in any way by 9/11. It creates a dark cloud over the entire location, forcing those that go to visit the site of 9/11 to mourn and remember to have to immedietely have the thoughts of the attackers coming to mind as a monument to the "success" of that attack is within a closer distance than it likely took for the individual to walk from their hotel room to a subway stop.
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It is difficult to morally justify conflating Al Qaeda and mainstream Muslims into the same thing.
 
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apdst said:
In short, it's ok to be offensive, as long as it's in the best interest of the country. I'll have to remember that.
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Thanks for reminding us exactly how deep your commitment to the constitution and bill of rights goes. It's interesting to me how many very conservative posters we have here who aren't at all interested in upholding our constitution.
 
apdst said:
In short, it's ok to be offensive, as long as it's in the best interest of the country. I'll have to remember that.
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In short, the First Amendment trumps your desire to not be offended. Try remembering that instead.
 
apdst said:
In short, it's ok to be offensive, as long as it's in the best interest of the country. I'll have to remember that.
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In short, what he wrote went over your head.
 
apdst said:
Building the Ground Zero mosque is nothing more than an insult to America and the Americans that were murdered on 9/11. This is a monument to victory for the Muslims. That's how it is viewed by many Muslims.
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Good thing they aren't building at ground zero, they are building it too blocks away. But hey don't let facts get in the way of your insane "I hate all Muslims" rant.
 
danarhea said:
When is the judge's funeral? I would like to attend.......

With a protest sign. See how HIS family likes it. :mrgreen:
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You know what is funny?

There is actually a group waiting to protest the funeral of the old man who runs WBC.
 
Completely banning the WBC protests is, indeed, unconstitutional.

Personally, I think the result of their recent attempt to protest at ComicCon was the proper response.

There's a thread on that somewhere in this forum...
 
TheNextEra said:
Good thing they aren't building at ground zero, they are building it too blocks away. But hey don't let facts get in the way of your insane "I hate all Muslims" rant.
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So, what's a couple of blocks? 80-100 meters, correct? Let's say it's 100 meters. Two blocks would be approximately 650 feet, +/-. Yes? Ya think that when the WTC came down, that there was debris was scattered over 650 feet away?

So, yes, don't let reality get in your way, sir.
 
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