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President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

Degreez said:
How is it "obviously a provocation" when it was planned well before 9/11?
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Again this is an out and out lie, the Cordoba Mosque was not announced until 2009.

Oh, I forgot... You think all of Islam is pure evil and Muslims are terrorists
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All mainstream Islam is oppressive and antithetical to individual libery and secular liberalism.
 
what's wrong with american politics: trying to improve relations with folks by openly and provacatively pissing em off
 
when is obama gonna move ksm downtown?

why not yesterday, why not now?

when?
 
Jucon said:
I would argue that the only provocation is coming from those who are protesting this (and other) Mosques being built. Freedom of religion is the only think you should be thinking about here.
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Yes people have the right to freedom of religion, however, that doesn't mean that we don't have the right to protest that ideology when said ideology is in conflict with secular liberalism upon which this country was founded. Yes Christian Identity adherents have the right to practice their religion, that doesn't mean we have to like it and shouldn't protest it. Yes they have the right to build their shrine to oppression and practice their oppressive ideology, but I as a free man have the right to protest this direct slap in the face.

We were attacked by terrorists who happened to be Muslim... not the other way around.
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No we were attackd by terrorists doing what they did in the name of Islam, their motivations were religious.

These terrorists do not represent the Muslim faith.
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You're right the Ulama represents the Muslim faith, the Ulama in all five schools of Islamic Fiqh has ruled through Ijma that the penalties for apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and/or premarital sex are capital and/or corporal punishment. Those are the only accepted views within mainstream Islam today.
 
SgtRock said:
Obama should stay out of this. If the KKK announced plans to build a shrine at the site of the 16th Street Baptist Church, would Obama be talking about religious freedom? I agree that they have a right to build this mosque but I also believe they have an agenda and it has nothing to do with tolerance and understanding.
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Are you saying that the particular group involved in building this mosque has a history of harassing, terrorizing, and murdering those whom they consider lesser beings?

Don't even say "well, they're Muslim." As I've said a thousand times before, there is no centralized authority structure in Islam. Simply being a Muslim doesn't associate you in any way with militant Muslims in the eyes of any but that of the idiot.

Unlike, you know, the KKK.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Are you saying that the particular group involved in building this mosque has a history of harassing, terrorizing, and murdering those whom they consider lesser beings?

Don't even say "well, they're Muslim." As I've said a thousand times before, there is no centralized authority structure in Islam. Simply being a Muslim doesn't associate you in any way with militant Muslims in the eyes of any but that of the idiot.

Unlike, you know, the KKK.
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Islam has the Ulama, try again. Just because there's five of them doesn't mean there isn't a source of authority or religious leadership. And FYI the Ulama's in all five schools of Islamic Fiqh agree through Ijma on most issues and definately on those issues pertaining to homosexuality, apostasy, adulter, and premarital sex.
 
Jucon said:
Agreed.

All these people's objections tell me that they SHOULD build this mosque.
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That's right. The law should always trump confused emotional reaction.

Also, seems like the same people who think freedom of religion means its okay to install the Roman Cross in taxpayer buildings are against allowing people of other faiths to build where they want to, even on their own property.

There was a report today that a republican politician in his ignorance said the President was being PC in his explanation of the legality of the mosque, and the rights of the mosque builders. There's a big difference between a 'PC' statement and one backing a Constitutionally protected right.

Pretty hypocritical when one loses sight of the importance of property rights and freedom of religion, but only when its somebody else's religion.
 
SgtRock said:
I have no intention to relax. I have been contemplating my anger and hatred for Islam lately. I understand that my opinion of Islam is not popular. But I believe I am right and my hatred is justified. I will fight the Islamification of my country till my last breath.
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In all seriousness, dude, it's unfortunate that you didn't stick to your sick leave from DP -- your hatred is scarier than it was before.
 
I can't believe I am about to say this but...
Obama is 100% correct in supporting the mosque and I agree with him on this issue.
 
mr rauf's attempt to "improve west-muslim relations" is backfiring pretty loudly

can you hear?

it's gonna get a lot hotter now that our stupid president has weighed in

these folks just aren't real bright, manifestly

party on, progressives, you know best (LOL!)
 
which one is more reasonable?

to make all muslim(1.5 b) your enemies day-to-day, or to get the arguments of some idiots(terrorists) in order to live in peace with muslim world.
 
ask 50% of ny dems

and if you don't get the answer you want, drug test em
 
mr rauf, build your mosque, by all means, it's your right

why, you even have the POTUS behind you!

but if you really want to improve west-muslim relations...

maybe you shouldn't listen to our prez
 
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digsbe said:
I can't believe I am about to say this but...
Obama is 100% correct in supporting the mosque and I agree with him on this issue.
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I agree with him, too. But I don't see him as "supporting the mosque." I see him as supporting their right to build it. There's a difference. "Wow, a Mosque is just what we need!!! Yay!!!" as opposed to ""As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country." That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."

Pretty gutsy move, actually.
 
yes, mr rauf and mr obama are EXPERTS at improving relations

we all recall when barry hussein jetted overseas to meet with the leaders of iran like he promised 100 times, thereby changing america's image abroad and the whole worried world in that wonderful way of his

wait...
 
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What surprises me is the comments of those who say they are Conservatives. Your very idealogy means you support this measure.

If you say you support the Constitution, then you support the right of the owner of this Mosque to practise his religious faith in this country.

If you say the U.S. is a nation of laws, then you support the legal right for this Mosque to be built exactly in the location where it was originally planned as long as the proper building permits were applied for, purchased and zoning codes are followed.

If you say you support the basic rights of Americans under the Bill of Rights, then you have no choice but to support the right for this Mosque to be built.

The President of the United States of America is affirming that we are a nation that does not ignores the basic rights of its citizens and will uphold the rule of law no matter how painful it may be at times.
 
soguks said:
which one is more reasonable?

to make all muslim(1.5 b) your enemies day-to-day, or to get the arguments of some idiots(terrorists) in order to live in peace with muslim world.
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The only accepted views in all five mainstream Islamic sects are that the penalties for apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and/or premarital sex are capital and/or corporal punishment. That is the only accepted mainstream version of Islam which makes it the clear enemy of individual liberty and antithetical to the liberal secularism upon which this country was founded.
 
Objective Voice said:
What surprises me is the comments of those who say they are Conservatives. Your very idealogy means you support this measure.

If you say you support the Constitution, then you support the right of the owner of this Mosque to practise his religious faith in this country.

If you say the U.S. is a nation of laws, then you support the legal right for this Mosque to be built exactly in the location where it was originally planned as long as the proper building permits were applied for, purchased and zoning codes are followed.

If you say you support the basic rights of Americans under the Bill of Rights, then you have no choice but to support the right for this Mosque to be built.

The President of the United States of America is affirming that we are a nation that does not ignores the basic rights of its citizens and will uphold the rule of law no matter how painful it may be at times.
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good, mr rauf has his right

but since he really does want to improve relations with his neighbors he should (and he will, in time) VOLUNTARILY move this thing elsewhere

he'll do so outta respect for all the idiots in his neighborhood he's so thoughtlessly offended

mr obama put the seal on it, this issue is now gonna EXPLODE

ksm will have his manhattan trial in the courtroom of his equivalent of lance ito before the cornerstone for this mosque is physically laid

ie, never

politics persistently prevails

stay classy
 
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The Prof said:
good, mr rauf has his right

but since he really does want to improve relations with his neighbors he should (and he will, in time) VOLUNTARILY move this thing elsewhere

he'll do so outta respect for all the idiots in his neighborhood he's so thoughtlessly upset

mr obama put the seal on it, this issue is now gonna EXPLODE

ksm will have his manhattan trial in the courtroom of his equivalent of lance ito before the cornerstone for this mosque is physically laid

ie, never

politics persistently prevails

stay classy
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It won't explode unless the media explodes it.

(Weird. Your post, when copied, shows 'stay classy' at the end. My view of your post box doesn't show that. Weird.)
 
obama was gonna improve relations with iran, remember?

how's that workin?

obama's not very good at improving relations

why, he's taken a nation that once adored and admired him and turned it into one that changes the channel before he has a chance to bore them once more to death with his insufferable washington-knows-best theme

americans are PISSED, or haven't you noticed?

rauf's not very good at improving relations, either

manifestly
 
MaggieD said:
It won't explode unless the media explodes it.
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there's no "unless," are you listening to msnbc this morning, cspan's open phones show?

check out the sunday talks tomorrow
 
jamesrage said:
Why else be opposed to a mosque being built near ground zero if they are not blaming all muslims for 9-11? If that was true that they are not blaming all muslims then they would have no problem with the mosque being built near ground zero.


There are nut jobs and bad apples in every religion. The actions of a few does not mean everyone else in the religion is like that. Is Catholicism a religion of pedophiles just because a small percentage of catholic priest molested some kids?
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The rub here is that, if the Muslims are acting within the law, as it appears they are, there is absolutely NOTHING we can do about unless we turn our backs on our very core American principles. It's a very frustrating place to be watching this transpire all the while having our hands tied.

I am with SgtRock in many ways. I am REALLY starting to hate those bastards too. I feel that the religion of Islam is a blight upon mankind and I would rather see it treated as a disease rather than a religion, but I digress. But that's just my smelly opinion too. (I could probably add a couple more religions to the list as well...)

So here's the predicament. We shut them down, thereby compromising and casting aside our laws, freedom of religion, speech, (and probably a plethora of others) thus giving these germs the final victory over us, OR, we stick to our principles and stand by and watch them memorialize Ground Zero as a Islamic victory.

It's "lose, lose" and it's frustrating.

Isn't there a big historical stink in Israel about some Muslim Mosque that was built atop a temple when the Muslim's conquered the area? I seem to remember something like that. Insult to injury. Modus Operandi. Many people, including myself, consider this to be similar in principle.

So, whereas, I agree with Obama, I don't gotta like it. Our way of life, with all it's advantages, can be a double-edge sword.
 
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