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President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

The fact of the matter is that the view held in all 5 sects of mainstream Islam is that the penalty for apostasy, adultery, homosexuality, and/or premarital sex is death and/or lashing.

Have you ever read the Old Testament? Jews and Christians are no different then, according to your opinion. Most progressives of any religion realize that those specific "eye for an eye" principals are archaic and were only applicable to the time they were written in. And this includes progressive Muslims.


Actually locking away undesirables is a tactic of the left from Roosevelt to Stalin.

Hitler was very far to right.
 
the Empire had its own system, and you got my point,albeit by chance, Altough the empire jad its own syytem, There were rights for non-muslims such as owning christian courts or schools etc.,and there were no daily insults against non-muslims as in today's america;

Bull****, dhimmitude was a 24/7 insult, they did not enjoy equal rights. That's like saying that Apartheid or Jim Crow allowed for rights of the blacks without mentioning that those rights were based on segregation and inequality.

on the other hand, they had some privileges ,for example, non-muslims had no obligation for military service...

And they couldn't hold high public office or preach their religion in an attempt to convert.

i repeat The ottoman empire had its own system and lived for 600 years, which shows us the empire had more tolerance for non-muslims than today's America.

Again wtf are you talking about? Are you asserting that non-Muslims had more rights under the Ottoman empire than Muslims have under the U.S. republic? Your knowledge of history is so skewed and obviously ill informed that I can't help but think you must be joking or saying this non-sense simply to provoke. Non-Muslims were 3rd class dhimmi's until after the Tanzimat Reformation which only granted them de jure not de facto equal rights. In the U.S. Muslims have both de jure and de facto equal rights.


don't be so dramatic, the empire ,as you wrote,changed its some rules later, after all, we are talking about an empire 100 years ago ...Muslims in USA have to obey the rules of USA, if they want to live in USA, right?

Those rules come with equal rights regardless of race, religion, and gender. Those rules don't entail killing people for homosexuality or adultery or apostasy etc. Those rules are not said to come from and omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient god but from fallible men who are recognized as fallible.
 
New York Post
Aug 13, 2010



President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque - NYPOST.com

As of today 61% of New Yorkers many of them democrats, are aginst the ground zero mosque. Obama comes out in support. Not a very smart move on his part.

You know what I would have liked Obama to say, which he may be doing, just not saying. I have the CIA, FBI, all branches of the military thoroughly investigating the group that says they are wanting to build this mosque. Any Islamic group insensitive enough to want to build a mosque at ground zero needs to be investigated with every spare dollar we've got. Especially when they aren't fessing up to where they are getting the cash, and also wanting to have their "grand-opening" on 9/11/11. I would love for our President's to say this kind of thing instead of all this ass kissing they usually do. Bush did it, too, and it just makes me want to puke.
 
Disputed.
National Socialism had elements of leftism.

I knew someone was going to say that. Its hard to define "right" and "left" because here in the U.S. are two parties have spliced the two. The "right" is actually liberal when it comes to economics but socially conservative. The "left" is socially liberally but economically conservative. Hitler was a true conservative in the pre-industrial European sense of the word, which meant social control and a state owned economy.
 
Have you ever read the Old Testament? Jews and Christians are no different then, according to your opinion.

A) Which mainstream Christian or Jewish sect calls for capital and/or corporal punishment for the non-crimes of apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and/or premarital sex?

B) I'm an atheist, but the fact of the matter is historically and presently Islam has been responsible for more bloodshed than Judaism and Christianity combined.


Most progressives of any religion realize that those specific "eye for an eye" principals are archaic and were only applicable to the time they were written in. And this includes progressive Muslims.

There are no mainstream progressive sects within Islam, it doesn't exist, those who don't support that Ijma are in the extreme minority and are considered heretical. The closest thing you can find to a mainstream progressive Islamic sect are the Sufi's but all of the other sects consider them heretics.

Hitler was very far to right.

I disagree.
 
I knew someone was going to say that. Its hard to define "right" and "left" because here in the U.S. are two parties have spliced the two. The "right" is actually liberal when it comes to economics but socially conservative. The "left" is socially liberally but economically conservative. Hitler was a true conservative in the pre-industrial European sense of the word, which meant social control and a state owned economy.

So Keynes was considered a conservative economist in pre-industrial Europe?
 
One of the goals of Christianity (for example) is to "convert" the entire world to their religion. So should we be suspicious of all Christians? Will they eventually wipe out all the non-believers so Jesus will finally come back to earth? I'm not worried. Nor am I worried that all Muslims will rise up and kill us all. There are both good and terrible people in all religions. I am not one to let the extremists speak for the rest of their religion.

I certainly look at anyone who professes their belief in an invisible man in the sky with a bit of suspicion. I especially look at this guy with a great deal of suspicion considering that he has blamed the U.S. for 9-11, said OBL was made in the USA, refuses to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, and wants a Sharia compliant U.S..

Religious beliefs are shoved into politics all the time... but if you truly believe that America will EVER condone the death penalty for adultery, lashing someone for having sex out of wedlock, or cutting someone's hands off for stealing... as The Prof feels he needs to shove into this discussion... you should take a drug test.:roll:

I didn't say that it would happen, I don't think the American Nazi Party will ever obtain political power in the U.S. either, but that shouldn't stop me from condemning their platform.
 
There are no mainstream progressive sects within Islam, it doesn't exist, those who don't support that Ijma are in the extreme minority and are considered heretical. The closest thing you can find to a mainstream progressive Islamic sect are the Sufi's but all of the other sects consider them heretics.

So since the ever growing amount of progressive Islamist both in the Middle East and the Western world haven't formed an organized sect that is not considered heretical by the old establishments, you believe they should be discriminated against in the U.S.? What is your actual point?
 
I certainly look at anyone who professes their belief in an invisible man in the sky with a bit of suspicion.

Oh no. Another atheist "elitist" that thinks he's smarter than anyone who believes in something that cannot be seen.

"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." Fred Hoyle, Astrophysicist
 
the fact of the matter is historically and presently Islam has been responsible for more bloodshed than Judaism and Christianity combined.

I'd like to hear how the Native Americans feel about that statement.
 
So since the ever growing amount of progressive Islamist both in the Middle East and the Western world haven't formed an organized sect

Progressive Muslims are in the fringe, I support progressive Muslims there's no such thing as a progressive Islamist, the two concepts are mutually exclusive, the fact of the matter is that mainstream Islam is today inherently oppressive.

that is not considered heretical by the old establishments, you believe they should be discriminated against in the U.S.? What is your actual point?

No I believe Muslims should have equal protection under the law but that the 1st amendment right to speak the truth about the oppressive nature of their ideology should likewise be respected. In this country the only defense against the freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.
 
I'd like to hear how the Native Americans feel about that statement.

Probably a lot better than the Indians which were slaughtered in the millions by the Islamic Imperialists in the largest genocide until Stalin and Hitler. Especially considering that the vast majority of Native Americans who died were not killed by systematic genocide as were the Hindus and Buddhists on the Indian subcontinent.
 
let's all hope we idiots, as a nation, can survive all this too-smart-for-its-own-good leadership

So you're saying that people are always right and we should dictate policy by polls?

I remember a certain Democrat President who got endless flak for doing just that.
 
Oh no. Another atheist "elitist" that thinks he's smarter than anyone who believes in something that cannot be seen.

"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." Fred Hoyle, Astrophysicist

lol he was a proponent of intelligent design and rejected the big bang theory. Ya there's a guy I want to take science lessons from. :roll:
 
I believe Muslims should have equal protection under the law but that the 1st amendment right to speak the truth about the oppressive nature of their ideology should likewise be respected. In this country the only defense against the freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.

No one is stopping people from complaining about the mosque and no one is going to stop the mosque from being built. You already have what you want. You should be a very happy person :)
 
No one is stopping people from complaining about the mosque and no one is going to stop the mosque from being built. You already have what you want. You should be a very happy person :)

Well good luck getting the union workers on site, good luck getting the building materials out of the docks, good luck passing inspections. ;)
 
lol he was a proponent of intelligent design and rejected the big bang theory. Ya there's a guy I want to take science lessons from. :roll:

True, but that is a damn good quote.

BTW, you're a pretty smart guy, unlike a lot of your conservative cohorts who denounce Islam and have never taken a college level history or religion class in their lives. I'm surprised you lean to the right. As I always say, its not the conservative policies I have a problem with, its the damn conservatives.
 
Well good luck getting the union workers on site, good luck getting the building materials out of the docks, good luck passing inspections. ;)

Ever thing you've said up until this statement was sound and intelligent. Don't you know the American value system by now? $ > ethics.
 
Obama's comments take mosque story national - James Hohmann and Maggie Haberman and Mike Allen - POLITICO.com

President Barack Obama on Saturday sought to defuse the controversy over his remarks on plans to build a mosque near Ground Zero, insisting that he wasn’t endorsing the specific project but making a general plea for religious tolerance toward all.

"In this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion,” Obama told reporters Saturday when asked about his remarks at a White House dinner marking the start of Ramadan.

it's a little too late for that, mr prez, america heard what she heard

“I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there,” Obama continued. “I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about. And I think it's very important as difficult as some of these issues are that we stay focused on who we are as a people and what our values are all about."

thank you, professor, should we be taking notes?

are we gonna be (drug) tested on this?


well, yeah...



go figure



well, who coulda predicted that, who can guess what a neanderthal's gonna do?



he never thought of that

still, you better be careful what you say (if your urine is unclean)


hey, he's gotta be himself



that was wise, even goofy gibbs gets it

i wonder why the change


oh, yeah


any dem in the nation, huh, fair game?

well, ok...



how downright disloyal of them, and after all he's done for their membership...



schumer and cuomo, tho, did go to charlie's birthday party, ex mayor dinkins flipped off the anti-corruption protestors on the street

it beats talking about jobs


again?

"the president again knocked his party's candidates off message?"

you mean he's done this before?



politico's hohman, haberman and allen answered above: iftar


good, you can go down in history



yeah, according to whom?


fair enough, except all that effort to unite kinda seems to be going backward

as in, "R, for reverse"


yeah, kinda

anyway, the "professional left(ists)" at politico, which proudly boasts three known members of the prestigious jouno-list, don't appear very impressed with the party's prospects

are you sure washington knows best, after all?
 
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Ever thing you've said up until this statement was sound and intelligent. Don't you know the American value system by now? $ > ethics.

Workers don't get another penny the faster the project goes, in fact it would be better for them to drag it out as long as possible. Sick days.
 
Workers don't get another penny the faster the project goes, in fact it would be better for them to drag it out as long as possible. Sick days.

If you think someone is going to turn down a job in this economy, you must be smoking the same substance Whitney Houston does in your cigar pipe every night.
 
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