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President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

We are a nation of people who understand the sensitivity of others, even when others want to stomp on our own sensitivities.

Basically, we are pushovers when it comes to "sensitive groups".

Objective voice: this is exactly what I am talking about. We have demonstrated that the 9/11 attacks weren't sponsored, supported or carried out by any major Islamic sect and were actually condemned by most of them and yet people still think our sensitivities are being "stomped on" because so many Americans are too stupid to differentiate between Islam and radical Islamic terrorist. I guess building a church in downtown Atlanta would be "insensitive" because some wacko right-wing Christian bombed the olympics there years back. Because after all, an attack from a wacko right-wing extremist Christian is an attack by ALL Christians.:roll:
 
Objective voice: this is exactly what I am talking about. We have demonstrated that the 9/11 attacks weren't sponsored, supported or carried out by any major Islamic sect and were actually condemned by most of them and yet people still think our sensitivities are being "stomped on" because so many Americans are too stupid to differentiate between Islam and radical Islamic terrorist. I guess building a church in downtown Atlanta would be "insensitive" because some wacko right-wing Christian bombed the olympics there years back. Because after all, an attack from a wacko right-wing extremist Christian is an attack by ALL Christians.:roll:

Well then, I don't see any slave holders yet people are still sensitive about slavery..... explain that one then bub.

I don't see anyone who was involved in the forced removal of native americans from the original 13 colonies, yet people are sensitive about that.

The list goes on.

Basically what you are trying to say is that nobody has a right to be sensitive to anything unless THAT SPECIFIC GROUP is the one harming those sensitivities.

Thanks.
 
Well then, I don't see any slave holders yet people are still sensitive about slavery..... explain that one then bub.

I don't see anyone who was involved in the forced removal of native americans from the original 13 colonies, yet people are sensitive about that.

The list goes on.

Basically what you are trying to say is that nobody has a right to be sensitive to anything unless THAT SPECIFIC GROUP is the one harming those sensitivities.

Thanks.

Your examples prove my point even further "bub". You just don't get it. Slavery WAS STATE BACKED, by the United States of America and for the United States of America. So were the Indian Removal Acts. This is why Native Americans and African-Americans are still sensitive and feel they are owed something. How many times do I have to say it! 9/11 wasn't backed by any major Islamic sects! Again, if you protest this building you would have to protest a church being built in downtown Atlanta, or else you're simply a hypocrit.
 
Again, you misread. Like a Christian who thinks we should follow the word of God in making our decisisons, he feels the same about his religion.

He said that he wants a Sharia compliant U.S. he supports Sharia law in the U.S., or in his words he does not want our secular laws to conflict with the Koran and the Hadiths. His only complaint is the penal code not Sharia law itself.

But his point was that doing so is not radical any more than when a Christian feels that way. You completely misunderstand his conversation, playing the nonthinking radical misrepresenting role of a Beck.

Wanting secular laws not to conflict with the bible is the very definition of a radical Christian. This man is a theocrat not a liberal, he wants Sharia which means he wants to outlaw homosexuality, he wants to outlaw apostasy, he wants premarital sex outlawed, he wants adultery outlawed, he wants discriminatory inheritance laws regarding women, and he wants everything else that Sharia law would entail. His problem with Sharia is not the law but the penal code.

And Becks comments are exactly the same, with exactly the same meaning.

No they are not you are lying, Glenn Beck never said that the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11, Glenn Beck never called for Sharia, Glenn Beck didn't say that OBL was made in the USA,

Again, it takes a certain willingness to misrepresent to read it otherwise.

I'm not misrepresenting a ****ing thing, he said and refused to say everything that I have claimed to the letter.

I repeat, you simply have it completely wrong.

I'm not misrepresenting anything, he has blamed the U.S. for 9-11, said that OBL was made in the USA, both within less than 3 weeks of the attacks, has refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, and wants a Sharia compliant U.S., I have provided his direct quotes to attest to these facts, any assertion to the contrary is a proven lie.
 
Objective voice: this is exactly what I am talking about. We have demonstrated that the 9/11 attacks weren't sponsored, supported or carried out by any major Islamic sect and were actually condemned by most of them and yet people still think our sensitivities are being "stomped on" because so many Americans are too stupid to differentiate between Islam and radical Islamic terrorist. I guess building a church in downtown Atlanta would be "insensitive" because some wacko right-wing Christian bombed the olympics there years back. Because after all, an attack from a wacko right-wing extremist Christian is an attack by ALL Christians.:roll:

Care to show us where most Muslims condemned the 9/11 murders? Betcha can't do it.
 
That's been explained already. Try to keep up.

But it has no bearing on this community centre with a mosque inside it. The two are seperate issues.

It's not a ****ing community center it's a Mosque, if it's a community center then when will they be holding prayer services for non-Muslim members of the community?
 
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Care to show us where most Muslims condemned the 9/11 murders? Betcha can't do it.

Can you show us where most Muslims have supported the 9/11 murders? Betcha can't do it.
 
Your examples prove my point even further "bub". You just don't get it. Slavery WAS STATE BACKED, by the United States of America and for the United States of America. So were the Indian Removal Acts. This is why Native Americans and African-Americans are still sensitive and feel they are owed something. How many times do I have to say it! 9/11 wasn't backed by any major Islamic sects! Again, if you protest this building you would have to protest a church being built in downtown Atlanta, or else you're simply a hypocrit.

Well, Im not protesting anything.

Its insensitive, yes. But sure let them build a mosque. I don't have to deal with it because I don't and never will live in (*pinching nose*) "New York City".
 
It starts with the premise. Why is the article written? Who has suggested anywhere that anyone take up these laws that are mentioned. Have you looked at laws under old Christian law? Like the letter on Christianity, many have over the years written and misunderstood Christian positions and used Christina writings to justify all manner of evil. Same with Islam.

"Applying the Old Testament Law Today" by J. Daniel Hays

Many of these laws don't really apply today ad are largely ignored. But we've seen in this country Christians abusing their wives, using the bible to justify slavery and segregation and other abuses. The probem is more how some third world countries misinterpret the word (remember muslims are believers in the book and broters and sisters to both Christans and jews). This si the problem, and the American (non)Thinker does little more than play to the prejudices of it's readers, who seldom if ever question the opening premise.

Agian, there is no spreading of sharia law. The vast majority ofmuslims live leife little differently than Christians do. For them is is more about jsutice and fairness than it is these silly misrepresentations.


This is it? This is your big misrepresentation, your chance to once and for all put Am Thinker in its place? The best you can come up with is to bash Christianity and call the premise wrong, and never truly address how?


FAIL!


Don't ever again come to me with how the AT is so wrong that you won't even address it, you have shown you have nothing here other than an ideological bent that won't allow you to debate honestly.


j-mac
 
Hmmm....And it only took them 8 years to come up with it.....good show.....Proves nothing.


j-mac

In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:[5]

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.

Reactions to the attacks in the Muslim world were mixed. Most Muslim political and religious leaders condemned the attacks. The leaders vehemently denouncing the attacks included the Presidents of Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, Libya, Syria, Iran and Pakistan.

Renowned Muslim scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks and the killings of hundreds of civilians as a "heinous crime" and urged Muslims to donate blood to the victims. He did however criticise the United States' "biased policy towards Israel"

Huge crowds attended candlelit vigils in Iran, and 60,000 spectators observed a minute's silence at Tehran football stadium.


Why do you keep ignoring this J-Mac? This was just after 9/11.
 
Why do you keep ignoring this J-Mac? This was just after 9/11.


I am ignoring that because anything that touts as one of its voices an un indicted co conspirator in the holy land foundation trials as a credible voice is promoting lies.


j-mac
 
I am ignoring that because anything that touts as one of its voices an un indicted co conspirator in the holy land foundation trials as a credible voice is promoting lies.


j-mac

How does this statement remotely make sense.

So what you're saying is. You're quite happy to make an assumption about 1.2 billion people based on the actions of it's worse, and minority segments, but when evidence is presented of it's good side, that stood with you in their hearts on 9/11 (btw Muslim Americans died on 9/11 to, or does it matter to you that they were muslims? and not Americans?) you still refuse to aknowledge that.

Just come out and say that you hate all muslims and we can move on. But you're ignoring clear evidence that muslims did speak out against 9/11. It's willful ignorance and it has no place in civilized debate.

The vast majority of casualties of Islamic terrorism, are muslims themselves. Hate to break it to you. So it's impossible that they all support it.
 
So what you're saying is. You're quite happy to make an assumption about 1.2 billion people based on the actions of it's worse, and minority segments, but when evidence is presented of it's good side, that stood with you in their hearts on 9/11 (btw Muslim Americans died on 9/11 to, or does it matter to you that they were muslims? and not Americans?) you still refuse to aknowledge that.

No, I refuse to acknowledge false proclamations from liars. CAIR is duplicitous in their words, and deeds, and have a track record of saying one thing, and doing another.

I know that Muslim Americans dies on 9/11, I like how on the one hand you chastise me for looking at the problem as a generalization, yet because Muslims were killed on 9/11 you want me to take at face value that ALL muslims are peaceful and loving members of civil action.

The grand majority of Muslims across the world did hold vigils in support of us on 9/11, but you have to realize the scope of Islam. 1.2 Billion. Now I have seen estimates that upwards of 10% are radicalized, even here in the US, (See Red House VA.) that would be 120 million radicals spread out across the world. Or if you wish, equal to a third of the population of the United States. That is a damned lot of people!

Just come out and say that you hate all muslims and we can move on. But you're ignoring clear evidence that muslims did speak out against 9/11. It's willful ignorance and it has no place in civilized debate.

I don't hate all Muslims, that would just be plain silly. But since we are throwing out silly accusations here, why don't you just come out and say that you hate America for what you perceive as wrongs done throughout our history, and that you think, like Imam Rauf, that we are an accomplice to 9/11. That you think we somehow deserved what happened on that day, and that you are willing to dimmi yourself in the hopes that that 10% of radicals will leave us alone.


The vast majority of casualties of Islamic terrorism, are muslims themselves. Hate to break it to you. So it's impossible that they all support it.

I am certainly no scholar of Islam, but waring between sects has been a centuries problem. I guess you get that when a religious following starts out with kill all who don't believe like I do. In any case my concern is focused on what their intent is with us, not each other.


j-mac
 
No, I refuse to acknowledge false proclamations from liars. CAIR is duplicitous in their words, and deeds, and have a track record of saying one thing, and doing another.

Glad to see evidence matters not to you.

I know that Muslim Americans dies on 9/11, I like how on the one hand you chastise me for looking at the problem as a generalization, yet because Muslims were killed on 9/11 you want me to take at face value that ALL muslims are peaceful and loving members of civil action.

And you're saying that the actions of a few, that you take as face value that ALL muslims are barbaric terrorists in training.

The grand majority of Muslims across the world did hold vigils in support of us on 9/11, but you have to realize the scope of Islam. 1.2 Billion. Now I have seen estimates that upwards of 10% are radicalized, even here in the US, (See Red House VA.) that would be 120 million radicals spread out across the world. Or if you wish, equal to a third of the population of the United States. That is a damned lot of people!

Honestly, your definition of radical is probably so wide it encompasses half the US (or anyone Obama nominates ;)) You've overused the word radical at almost every turn since the great elections debates on Whistlestopper 2 years ago.

Care to show me proof of that number btw?

I don't hate all Muslims, that would just be plain silly.

You know what else is silly? Judging them by the actions of a few. :mrgreen:

But since we are throwing out silly accusations here, why don't you just come out and say that you hate America

Why would I say that? I love American Football, Baseball, Vegas, Disneyland etc.

For what you perceive as wrongs done throughout our history

You know I hate to break it to you. But if you think America has NEVER done anything wrong, you're wrong. I see some parts of America wanna just forget about some of the things that are part of your countries history, such as slavery or Mcarthyism.

As A South African, I accept the bad and good facets of my history, they are all part of me, and I simply cannot escape that. It's what we choose to do with that history, do we learn from it or not?

and that you think, like Imam Rauf, that we are an accomplice to 9/11. That you think we somehow deserved what happened on that day, and that you are willing to dimmi yourself in the hopes that that 10% of radicals will leave us alone.

So defending the guys private property rights makes me all that? Excellent :)

I am certainly no scholar of Islam, but waring between sects has been a centuries problem. I guess you get that when a religious following starts out with kill all who don't believe like I do. In any case my concern is focused on what their intent is with us, not each other.

j-mac

You know I AM a particular scholar of humanity. And if you're such a peaceful, good, civilized christian society...

What's with all the wars, bombings, illegal wire-tappings, illegal search and seizures, torture and extra-ordinary rendition...

Do you actually understand that your country has killed and imprisoned more innocent people since 9/11, then died on 9/11? and no, i'm not implying you're like the terrorists, just something to think about.

You have locked up citizens of my countries with little or no evidence FOR YEARS. Some have been released, some have not. But they have the right to have their case heard by a jury and evidence presented.
 
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He said that he wants a Sharia compliant U.S. he supports Sharia law in the U.S., or in his words he does not want our secular laws to conflict with the Koran and the Hadiths. His only complaint is the penal code not Sharia law itself.



Wanting secular laws not to conflict with the bible is the very definition of a radical Christian. This man is a theocrat not a liberal, he wants Sharia which means he wants to outlaw homosexuality, he wants to outlaw apostasy, he wants premarital sex outlawed, he wants adultery outlawed, he wants discriminatory inheritance laws regarding women, and he wants everything else that Sharia law would entail. His problem with Sharia is not the law but the penal code.



No they are not you are lying, Glenn Beck never said that the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11, Glenn Beck never called for Sharia, Glenn Beck didn't say that OBL was made in the USA,



I'm not misrepresenting a ****ing thing, he said and refused to say everything that I have claimed to the letter.



I'm not misrepresenting anything, he has blamed the U.S. for 9-11, said that OBL was made in the USA, both within less than 3 weeks of the attacks, has refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, and wants a Sharia compliant U.S., I have provided his direct quotes to attest to these facts, any assertion to the contrary is a proven lie.

No, you misread him completely. I don't know how to get this across to you as reading it directly doesn't show you your error. All he is doing is suggesting we not fear muslims and is not calling on any additions to US law at all. You simply have it completely wrong.
 
This is it? This is your big misrepresentation, your chance to once and for all put Am Thinker in its place? The best you can come up with is to bash Christianity and call the premise wrong, and never truly address how?


FAIL!


Don't ever again come to me with how the AT is so wrong that you won't even address it, you have shown you have nothing here other than an ideological bent that won't allow you to debate honestly.


j-mac

J, you have to start from the beginning and get that down before you can move on. The error bigins with the entire premise of the article. It takes the same type of radical law that Christians have used fro time to time and makes the same generalization with muslims. As no one is calling for any change in law, hence no reason for you to fear anything, the premise is flawed from the start. Until you realize that, we ca't move on. And you will continue to buy into false stereotying and be a tool for magazns like the American (non)Thinker, doing exactly what you accuse Jetboggieman of doing.
 
Glad to see evidence matters not to you.

That is crap and you know it. You throw out one thing that has at least two different organizations named by Feds in plots to fund terror groups, and you want me to take that seriously? Come on man.


And you're saying that the actions of a few, that you take as face value that ALL muslims are barbaric terrorists in training.


Where'd I say that....Show me, or sit down!

Honestly, your definition of radical is probably so wide it encompasses half the US (or anyone Obama nominates ) You've overused the word radical at almost every turn since the great elections debates on Whistlestopper 2 years ago.

This isn't about the smack down you received at Whistlestopper, they are dead and gone, where they belong. This is the here and now, and let's try if you can to not make this personal shall we?

As A South African, I accept the bad and good facets of my history, they are all part of me, and I simply cannot escape that. It's what we choose to do with that history, do we learn from it or not?

yep, that's right, and I choose not to lay prostrate for my Islamic masters. Maybe you have a different approach, that is fine for you. Good luck with that.

So defending the guys private property rights makes me all that? Excellent

No, and give up the strawman will you?

You know I AM a particular scholar of humanity. And if you're such a peaceful, good, civilized christian society...

What's with all the wars, bombings, illegal wire-tappings, illegal search and seizures, torture and extra-ordinary rendition...

Do you actually understand that your country has killed and imprisoned more innocent people since 9/11, then died on 9/11? and no, i'm not implying you're like the terrorists, just something to think about.

You have locked up citizens of my countries with little or no evidence FOR YEARS. Some have been released, some have not. But they have the right to have their case heard by a jury and evidence presented.


And there it is....Look if we want to have this tired very old argument, open a thread in the opinion section and we can, yet again. I am sure there is some Code Pink materiel you can dig up to say nuh uh!

Until then stick to facts:

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, which brands itself as a mainstream promoter of civil rights, has been named with two other prominent U.S. Islamic groups as an "unindicted co-conspirator" in a plot to fund the terrorist group Hamas.

Federal prosecutors also cited the Islamic Society of North America and the North American Islamic Trust as participants in a plot with five officials of the defunct Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, who go on trial July 16 in Dallas, the New York Sun reported.

Feds name CAIR in plot to fund Hamas


so I don't give a holy crap what they have to say, they are liars.


j-mac
 
J, you have to start from the beginning and get that down before you can move on. The error bigins with the entire premise of the article. It takes the same type of radical law that Christians have used fro time to time and makes the same generalization with muslims. As no one is calling for any change in law, hence no reason for you to fear anything, the premise is flawed from the start. Until you realize that, we ca't move on. And you will continue to buy into false stereotying and be a tool for magazns like the American (non)Thinker, doing exactly what you accuse Jetboggieman of doing.


That's so full of crap Joe....Face it you can't refute what was posted in American Thinker, and it pisses you off, so you have to lash out at Christianity....That's it, you're done, stick a fork in your argument, you lose this round.


:2wave:

j-mac
 
If private property rights and the constitution is a straw man... then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

Saying that we in opposition to the mosque are in favor of rescinding the property rights has already been proven false. So you are intentionally doing this. It is dishonest.


j-mac
 

I don't believe that poll for one second. It goes against every other poll taken of Muslims on this issue.

Only 40% believe Arabs were responsible for 9.11

A comprehensive survey by World Public Opinion.org of the University of Maryland reveals that a large number of Muslims don’t buy the official story of 9/11. They also reject, overwhelmingly, violent attacks on civilians. Many of them feel that the US is out to weaken and divide Islam in general, and this affects their views on “al Qaeda”, reflected in the graph below;

survey2.jpg


Only 40% of U.S. Muslims believe 9/11 was carried out by “Arabs” « truth booth online

More than 50 per cent of people reject the official belief that the attacks on the World Trade Centre on September 11, 2001, were carried out by al-Qaeda, a new survey has revealed.

The findings, released late on Wednesday, suggest that the official version of events - that the attacks, which killed more than 2,900 people and sparked the US so-called "war on terror", were carried out by al-Qaeda - is still a long way from being generally accepted.

Only 46 per cent of respondents named al-Qaeda, while 25 per cent said they did not know and 15 per cent said the US government was behind the attacks.


Al Jazeera English - Americas - 'Many still have doubts' over 9/11


No religion ever has that high of a condemnation for violence against others. That poll should be dismissed for what it is. An incredibly flawed poll.
 
That's so full of crap Joe....Face it you can't refute what was posted in American Thinker, and it pisses you off, so you have to lash out at Christianity....That's it, you're done, stick a fork in your argument, you lose this round.


:2wave:

j-mac

No j, it is the point. Not crap, but the point. Show me anywhere other than a third world country where this is going on, what the American (non)Thinker claims.
 
No j, it is the point. Not crap, but the point. Show me anywhere other than a third world country where this is going on, what the American (non)Thinker claims.


London, and the whole of Europe to an extent. hell we even have a Shria court right here in America. You're kidding right.

j-mac
 
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