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President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

I do not believe that islam is a religion, but a cult, so I do not know how your comment is applicable.

22% of the people in the world are Muslims. It is a religion, not a cult....unless you're using a very broad definition of cult that would include all religions.
 
He should:

1) have respect for those of us living here to decide our own issues

From the comments Obama made "n accordance with local laws and ordinances". So much for that argument.


2) he already did function entirely on polls, at least until they started going against him

Evidence?


3) show some leadership for once

Like saying an unpopular group has constitutional rights?
 
Fallacy of numbers theorum. There were 70 million Nazi party followers, and many millions of Nazi party members - was Nazism a religion too?

No thread is complete without a completely out of place nazi reference.
 
They fit as well into the definition as a cult as any other modern religion really. I mean many religions have their terrorists. Christian terrorists, Jewish terrorists, etc. The only religion I haven't heard being claimed by a terrorist is Bhuddism, even though with the whole Tibet deal I could be wrong about even that.

This is liberal nonsense. There are several fundamental reasons that islam cannot be compared to the major world religions:

1-the very high percentage of muslims who accept and extol terrorism and violence as a means to accomplish political goals
2-the very high percentage of muslims who seek to subjugate the world under islam
3-the unwillingness of muslims to separate the religious elements of it from the practice of the political
4-the unwillingness of muslims to modernize or reform islam so as to suppress the violent components of their texts from being applied in modern times
5-the consistent intolerance and oppression of non-muslim minorities inside muslim-majority nations, while demanding their "rights" while living in non-muslim majority nations

These 5 issues as a whole point to islam as an operable cult, one standing well apart from the other world religions. Political correctness may force people to hide their heads in the sand in the face of these 5 points, but reality speaks louder than spin...
 
No thread is complete without a completely out of place nazi reference.

I was using an absurd reference to highlight the absurdity of the claim "well, alot of people do it so then it's ok."
 
It's sort of hard to oppose this without conflating Al Qaeda with mainstream Muslims. Either you believe:

1. Al Qaeda and mainstream Muslims are identical.

2. They aren't identical, but people can't be expected to differentiate the two, so we evaluate them as though they are identical.

They aren't identical, AQ supports jihad against all infidels simply because they're infidels, mainstream Islam doesn't support that, but that doesn't make mainstream Islam a tolerant positive ideology, in all five mainstream sects of Islam the only accepted views are that the penalties for apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and/or premarital sex is capital and/or corporal punishment.

Both mainstream Islam and Islamism are oppressive and violent, it's a difference of degree not of kind.
 
From the comments Obama made "n accordance with local laws and ordinances". So much for that argument.

Obama is not the mayor of NYC, nor is he the Governor. It is not his place to give an opinion on a VERY combustible local issue. Perhaps he should be next issuing proclamations on how the subway should be run? You are in agreement with his comment, so it is obvious why you are so willing to tolerate his interference in the management of a local issue...
 
This is liberal nonsense. There are several fundamental reasons that islam cannot be compared to the major world religions:

1-the very high percentage of muslims who accept and extol terrorism and violence as a means to accomplish political goals


We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.
Ann Coulter

So would this quote from Anne Coulter extolling violence mean she is a member of a cult?
 
22% of the people in the world are Muslims. It is a religion, not a cult....unless you're using a very broad definition of cult that would include all religions.

IMHO, there are several definitions that all need to be applied simultaneously to a religion:

1-it must offer a peaceful method of interaction with both its adherents and non-belivers (islam fails this)
2-it must offer the ability to be flexible and morph over time to remain relevant in modern context (islam fails this)
3-it must not seek to brainwash adherents, that only its way is the Right One (both islam and christianity fail this, but islam's merger of both the spiritual and political lead to a greater failure)
4-it must not accept the use of violence to expand its reach (islam badly fails this)

These are but a few that come to mind, but you get the point.
 
So would this quote from Anne Coulter extolling violence mean she is a member of a cult?

Anne Coulter is not a priest, nor does she claim to be an expert on Christianity, nor does she present herself as speaking on behalf of christianity; if asked she would probably claim she is speaking on behalf on the Western democracies than as a religious figure.

That cannot be claimed of the thousands or millions of imams, clerics and learned muslims who declare a desire to conduct violent jihad and subjugation of the west. Whose state-owned newspapers do the same or worse, who operate fund-raising charities with which to conduct terrorism operations like the holy land foundation.
 
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Anne Coulter is not a priest, nor does she claim to be an expert on Christianity, nor does she present herself as speaking on behalf of christianity; if asked she would probably claim she is speaking on behalf on the Western democracies than as a religious figure.

That cannot be claimed of the thousands or millions of imams, clerics and learned muslims who declare a desire to conduct violent jihad and subjugation of the west. Whose state-owned newspapers do the same or worse, who operate fund-raising charities with which to conduct terrorism operations like the holy land foundation.


I'm sure I can find plenty of Priests, Ministers, Preachers that extol violence as a means to an end.
 
Obama is not the mayor of NYC, nor is he the Governor. It is not his place to give an opinion on a VERY combustible local issue. Perhaps he should be next issuing proclamations on how the subway should be run? You are in agreement with his comment, so it is obvious why you are so willing to tolerate his interference in the management of a local issue...

But the building of this Mosque so close to Ground Zero isn't just a local NYC or NY State issue. As I said in one of my previous posts, the decision to build it within such close proximity to Ground Zero affects many Americans on both an emotional and psychological level. As such, I understand why so many people are opposed to its construction at the specific location. However, I've also said that what's at stake goes so much deeper than our emotional, psychological or even political preferences or viewpoints. The deeper issue is "Who are we as Americans and will we adhere to our founding priciples or will we abandon those priciples just because they may make us uncomfortable from time to time?" That is what's truly at stake here. To that, I believe the President said the right thing here. He is upholding our American values by protecting and preserving basic human rights - freedom of religion, freedom of choice and upholding the rule of law at all levels. That to me is more important that the politics of the day. And it should be just as important for you, too.

Let me put it to you this way...

Had the President stood up and said it was wrong for this Mosque to be built, I believe the message Muslims around the world would have taken from this is "Americans ARE hypocrits! They truly don't believe in freedom of religion or democracy as they claim they do." And in taking such a stance, the President would have been sending a message to Muslim extremist that they were fully justified in attacking us not only on 9/11 but anywhere around the world. You have to remember, the guiding reason behind their hatred of America and Americans is U.S. Foreign Policy. Part of what guides said policy is how we abide by or subvert the very document that guides our fundamental priciples - the U.S. Constitution. Is this the message you want to send to the world? That America, for all of our talk on fairness and religious freedom is a smoke screen? That's it's just BS?

THINK IT THROUGH, PEOPLE!!!! There's so much more to this issue than your own emotional or political point of view.
 
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This is liberal nonsense. There are several fundamental reasons that islam cannot be compared to the major world religions:

1-the very high percentage of muslims who accept and extol terrorism and violence as a means to accomplish political goals
2-the very high percentage of muslims who seek to subjugate the world under islam
3-the unwillingness of muslims to separate the religious elements of it from the practice of the political
4-the unwillingness of muslims to modernize or reform islam so as to suppress the violent components of their texts from being applied in modern times
5-the consistent intolerance and oppression of non-muslim minorities inside muslim-majority nations, while demanding their "rights" while living in non-muslim majority nations

These 5 issues as a whole point to islam as an operable cult, one standing well apart from the other world religions. Political correctness may force people to hide their heads in the sand in the face of these 5 points, but reality speaks louder than spin...

Yeah, I see where it's different from Christianity....:roll:
 
Nice bit of spin by the New York Post -- I see the far-righties are on it like flies to dog ****.

you really should watch your language, respect yourself and others with even higher standards

far righties?

LOL!

you mean, like martin frost, mike mcmahon, tim bishop, jeff greene, kendrick meek, and a half dozen unnamed dem aides and advisers in new york (see politico link, above)

why have pelosi and reid no comment on this idiotic thrust of the president into this thorniest of downtown dilemnas?

why won't schumer and cuomo come out, they were courageous enough to go to rangel's birthday party (unlike half the empire state's blues)?

i wonder what they'll say...

anyway, it is plainly apparent why barack hussein obama is riding against a current of almost consensus american conclusion on this most dangerous of downtown dilemnas (cnn registers opposition to this project at 59%, support at 32, a plurality of TWENTY SEVEN PERCENT)

it's because hussein obama and his supporters see people like MARTIN FROST as far righties!

LOL!

maybe obama's base really is in need of drug testing
 
Obama is not the mayor of NYC, nor is he the Governor. It is not his place to give an opinion on a VERY combustible local issue. Perhaps he should be next issuing proclamations on how the subway should be run? You are in agreement with his comment, so it is obvious why you are so willing to tolerate his interference in the management of a local issue...

There are national, first amendment issues. He addressed them and made it a point to point out that it still had to follow local laws. So basically, your whole argument is entirely without any merit.
 
Anne Coulter is not a priest, nor does she claim to be an expert on Christianity, nor does she present herself as speaking on behalf of christianity; if asked she would probably claim she is speaking on behalf on the Western democracies than as a religious figure.

ms coulter is a fierce individualist, the ms coulter i've come to know would say she speaks for herself and no other, i believe

that said, i appreciate your deep thoughtfulness as demonstrated on this thread, please continue
 
So basically, your whole argument is entirely without any merit.

no one is in any better position than anyone else to declare which arguments do and do not contain merit

members should be allowed to judge for themselves

hello
 
bottom line: if you want to improve relations with your neighbors, you probably shouldn't go about royally pissing em off

by a plurality of TWENTY SEVEN %

because to do so would rather defeat your purpose

ie, it would be really stupid
 
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bottom line: if you want to improve relations with your neighbors, you probably shouldn't go about royally pissing em off

by a plurality of TWENTY SEVEN %

LOL!

I have long said that "If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow." I think the GOP and the modern day version of conservatism could learn from your post Prof. It really matters not what thier message might be when they send the offensive assholes (Beck, Limbaugh, O'reilly, Hannity, partisan hack blogsters, etc..) to deliver it.

But I agree with your post 100%.
 
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bottom line: if you want to improve relations with your neighbors, you probably shouldn't go about royally pissing em off

by a plurality of TWENTY SEVEN %

because to do so would rather defeat your purpose

ie, it would be really stupid

Hint: New York is not our neighbors, they are us.
 
absolutely, and they are pissed at the president's position by a plurality of TWENTY SEVEN PERCENT (these kinda numbers do not occur regularly in american politics which, on major issues, is characteristically far more centrist)

your argument, obviously the product of years of thought, holds great merit!

LOL!
 
I read this post while surfing the internet. What do you guys make of this? (Other than the guy doesn't use spell check.)

""Allah is our objective.



The Prophet is our leader.



The Koran is our law.



Jihad is our way.



Dying in the way of Allah is our HIGHEST Hope.



Allahu-Akbar! Allahu-Akbar!"



This is the code of the Muslim Brotherhood, to which many of those present at the dinner where Obama announced his support for the Mosque being built in Manhattan belong. The mosque is part of dawa, "which happens to be the Islamists' primary method of undermining Western values and American constitutional society". (Andrew C. McCarthy The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America) The coinstitution is not a suicide pact."
 
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Yeah, I see where it's different from Christianity....:roll:

Explain yourself Redress.

the very high percentage of muslims who accept and extol terrorism and violence as a means to accomplish political goals

Where is the evidence that supports this is true with a high percentage of Christians?

the very high percentage of Christians who seek to subjugate the world under Christianity

Again, your evidence please.

the unwillingness of Christians to separate the religious elements of it from the practice of the political

Evidence please

the unwillingness of Christians to modernize or reform islam so as to suppress the violent components of their texts from being applied in modern times

Evidence please

the consistent intolerance and oppression of non-Christian minorities inside Christian -majority nations, while demanding their "rights" while living in non-Christian majority nations

Again, evidence please.


You cannot simply substitute Christianity for Islam and pretend you don't have to explain why. Please do so.
 
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