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Ground zero mosque wins key vote

j-mac said:
That is because Islam is NOT a religion anymore than Communism is. Islam is a Political Theocracy hiding as a religion, and it is because of supposed tolerance of religion that they can get away with this ideology of hate.


j-mac
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Every factor that defines a religion as a religion is present in Islam. Simply because it can be applied to governance doesn't make it not a religion. If that was the case would have to classify Christianity as one as there's historical evidence of Christianity acting as a political entity as well, and even modern example of a legitimate Christian State.

Nice attempted end around though, you're really showing your disdain for the constitution.
 
ric27 said:
If you read the Koran, there are constant admonitions smite unbelievers, cut off their heads, noses, etc. Lying to them is encouraged. Plunder them, make them slaves. At best, Christians and Jews are allowed to worship as they please, but they must pay a tax. At worst, they are to be killed.
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If you read the Bible, there are constant admonitions about stoning people, beating your wife, beating your children, cutting off noses and heads, etc. We still allow Christians to live here, in spite of their rather horrifying views.
 
j-mac said:
That is because Islam is NOT a religion anymore than Communism is. Islam is a Political Theocracy hiding as a religion, and it is because of supposed tolerance of religion that they can get away with this ideology of hate.


j-mac
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So, should communism be illegal, also? How about anarchism? White supremism? Racism? Homophobia?
 
Zyphlin said:
Every factor that defines a religion as a religion is present in Islam. Simply because it can be applied to governance doesn't make it not a religion. If that was the case would have to classify Christianity as one as there's historical evidence of Christianity acting as a political entity as well, and even modern example of a legitimate Christian State.

Nice attempted end around though, you're really showing your disdain for the constitution.
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Then Liberalism is a religion then. That would explain many actions of liberals. My disdain for the constitution? Nonsense! I am pointing out that radical Islam could care less about our piece of paper and declarations of rights when it comes to dominating the western culture and destroying it in the name of Allah. They are using our laws, and perceptions, and tolerance against us, and those within that are arguing in favor of things like this mosque are aiding them.


j-mac
 
Catz Part Deux said:
If you read the Bible, there are constant admonitions about stoning people, beating your wife, beating your children, cutting off noses and heads, etc. We still allow Christians to live here, in spite of their rather horrifying views.
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You can make that claim, but you show nothing for reference, yet demand that when others make claims they back it up, how'd you put it? IN DETAIL! Why don't you have to do such?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
1st amendment?!!! 1st amendment?!!! What in the world makes you think that radical Islam gives two wits about what our Bill of Rights says, other than to use dupes in this country to use them against us?


j-mac
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This is your argument. Oh boy, everyone in America has to follow the Bill of Rights, doesn't matter what they believe. If they break the law they will be punished, no need to ban a religion.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
So, should communism be illegal, also? How about anarchism? White supremism? Racism? Homophobia?
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Not necessarily, but they should have to be honest about what they are, and what they intend, and not have some willing dupes in this country aid them in their conquest.


j-mac
 
Your Star said:
This is your argument. Oh boy, everyone in America has to follow the Bill of Rights, doesn't matter what they believe. If they break the law they will be punished, no need to ban a religion.
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In the mean time, how many must die needlessly for your supposed moral stance? How many will you sacrifice in the name of Islam?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Not necessarily, but they should have to be honest about what they are, and what they intend, and not have some willing dupes in this country aid them in their conquest.


j-mac
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Is failing to fully disclose information a crime?

Why would they need us when they have people like you ready and willing to dismantle our constitutional freedoms and make victims and martyrs out of them?

:roll:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Is failing to fully disclose information a crime?
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Actually, ..... Yes, yes I think it is.....


Why would they need us when they have people like you ready and willing to dismantle our constitutional freedoms and make victims and martyrs out of them?
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The Constitution is not a suicide pact. Regardless of how liberals would use it as such to the joy of radical Islam.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
In the mean time, how many must die needlessly for your supposed moral stance? How many will you sacrifice in the name of Islam?


j-mac
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I could care less about Islam, what I won't do is piss on the constitution out of irrational fear. Most muslims born in America don't hold the same beliefs as the radical muslims in the middle east, in fact most muslims around the world don't hold those views. This is also a huge disrespect to the muslims living in America, your acting like muslims in America were celebrating on 9/11, when in fact they were shocked, and heart broken like the rest of the country. Though they had the added disadvantaged of being discriminated against after the attacks by the irrational fear, and racism that you are displaying.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
If you read the Bible, there are constant admonitions about stoning people, beating your wife, beating your children, cutting off noses and heads, etc. We still allow Christians to live here, in spite of their rather horrifying views.
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Why don't you try reading the New Testament and then judge Christianity?

Christians are monolithic in that there are common beliefs that are shared by all Christian faiths. Those beliefs encompass the nature of God, Jesus Christ and salvation. There are non-core beliefs and practices that are not contained in the Bible and don't conflict with the core. They are seen by like minded individuals (which form a denomination) as the way they want to conduct a worship service, or dress, or drink or not drink. Those differences don't make one right and another wrong.

If however the practice involves something like killing an unbeliever, stoning a woman to death for sitting in a car with a man who is not her husband or relative, etc., then EVERY other Christian denomination is going to stand up and say that ISN'T in the Bible and it ISN'T Christian.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
So, should communism be illegal, also? How about anarchism? White supremism? Racism? Homophobia?
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The basic tenets of Muslim faith require them to convert the world to Islam. They can't keep the religion without it. Communism had a similar belief, but they never had the deep commitment that Islam has. Islam has been around for almost 1400 years. It won't ****ing die off on it's own. The only really relevant question is whether we will do something about it while we still have options. The longer we wait to defeat it, the more our options narrow. Islam has always chosen violence when they have the disparity in strength to make it work. If they can't conquer a people, they immigrate, infiltrate and then work at taking it over from within. And once they are in, only violence will root them out.
 
ric27 said:
The basic tenets of Muslim faith require them to convert the world to Islam. They can't keep the religion without it. Communism had a similar belief, but they never had the deep commitment that Islam has. Islam has been around for almost 1400 years. It won't ****ing die off on it's own. The only really relevant question is whether we will do something about it while we still have options. The longer we wait to defeat it, the more our options narrow. Islam has always chosen violence when they have the disparity in strength to make it work. If they can't conquer a people, they immigrate, infiltrate and then work at taking it over from within. And once they are in, only violence will root them out.
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Actually these are the basic tenants of islam.

Bearing witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
Observance of Prayer
Paying Zakat
Fasting during Ramadhan
Pilgrimage to the house of Allah.
 
Your Star said:
I could care less about Islam, what I won't do is piss on the constitution out of irrational fear.
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Oh yeah....Bring it on Star....I love this, let's see how many stereotypes of liberalism we can discern in one post, shall we?

You obviously do care about Islam, and offending our enemies, because like any good liberal you think we were responsible for the deaths on 9/11, not 19 Saudi funded, radical Islamists waging war on the United States, and the Western world in the name of Caliphate.


Most muslims born in America don't hold the same beliefs as the radical muslims in the middle east, in fact most muslims around the world don't hold those views.
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Really? and you base this on their obvious and conspicuous silence? Islam was founded by a murderous, rapist that calls for the view of those not converting to his ideology of hate to be killed. It condones violence, and deception. Nice religion.


This is also a huge disrespect to the muslims living in America
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Oh, I am sooooo sorry....I couldn't care less. They are enemies of the US.

your acting like muslims in America were celebrating on 9/11, when in fact they were shocked, and heart broken like the rest of the country.
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The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. (1)

Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2)

"They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness. (3)

[T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4)

Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6)

"It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." (7)

9-11 Attacks: The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested on 9-11
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Yeah.....How'd you put it? Oh yeah.....Not so much......

Though they had the added disadvantaged of being discriminated against after the attacks by the irrational fear, and racism that you are displaying.
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Irrational fear? Discrimination? As far as I know CAIR is still allowed here in America isn't it? Even though they are an un-indicted co conspirator of the Muslim Brotherhood. Detroit blasts calls to prayer 5 times a day do they not? No one in mass has rose up with violence en mass against American Muslims have they?

Congradulations, you have hit at least 5 of the liberal mantras, skewed, and wrong as they may be. A true cliche.


j-mac
 
Your Star said:
Actually these are the basic tenants of islam.

Bearing witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
Observance of Prayer
Paying Zakat
Fasting during Ramadhan
Pilgrimage to the house of Allah.
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And once again, you step off the deep end and drown in your ignorance. You are off by 217 degrees and this is why Islam is a danger to everyone who is not a Muslim. Now and probably forever.

Everywhere that Islam has spread, they have done it by conquest. Their military expansion stopped at the walls of Vienna in 1699. Your western value Muslim would be considered an apostate by mainstream Islam. To adopt western values requires a rejection of the blatant commands of the Koran, which to Islam is the unalterable word of God. By their own source documents, the ones that lay out their faith, their beliefs and they way they are to act, they are to be at war with EVERYONE who is not a Muslim. The world according to Islam is split in two. The Dar el Islam, and the Dar el Harb. The house of peace and the house of war.
 
j-mac said:
Oh yeah....Bring it on Star....I love this, let's see how many stereotypes of liberalism we can discern in one post, shall we?

You obviously do care about Islam, and offending our enemies, because like any good liberal you think we were responsible for the deaths on 9/11, not 19 Saudi funded, radical Islamists waging war on the United States, and the Western world in the name of Caliphate.
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When did I say this? This is news to me, but thanks for telling me how I think. :roll:

Really? and you base this on their obvious and conspicuous silence? Islam was founded by a murderous, rapist that calls for the view of those not converting to his ideology of hate to be killed. It condones violence, and deception. Nice religion.
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I'm not defending Islam as a religion, I don't follow it, I'm a Christian, but to equate every muslim as a terrorist is ignorant, and dishonest. I'm defending the Constitution, and the peaceful muslims that live in America doing no harm to anyone.

Oh, and about the video, I couldn't watch it, because my internet sucks, but lets just say that there were some muslims celebrating. There are always going to be a-holes that believe that radical nonsense. But the majority of Muslims didn't celebrate, I should of made that distinction. But again to equate a small group of a-holes to the majority isn't logical. It's like saying that all Christians celebrate when an abortion clinic is bombed, because a few a-holes do.


Irrational fear? Discrimination? As far as I know CAIR is still allowed here in America isn't it? Even though they are an un-indicted co conspirator of the Muslim Brotherhood. Detroit blasts calls to prayer 5 times a day do they not? No one in mass has rose up with violence en mass against American Muslims have they?

Congradulations, you have hit at least 5 of the liberal mantras, skewed, and wrong as they may be. A true cliche.


j-mac
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The irrational fear, and discrimination I'm talking about is people like you, who want to piss on the constitution because you equate a small group of radicals with a whole group of people. Also it reaches to many non muslims who just happen to look middle eastern, like the Sikhs who were murdered because of their look, and the way there religion has them dress, after 9/11.
 
I'm glad the mosque won the vote, and no one has the right to prevent them from building it. I find it hypocritical that many conservatives oppose building the mosque and wish for state intervention when it comes to property rights and religious freedom :roll:
 
ric27 said:
For the same reason, I think there can be a reasonable restriction on freedom of religion. If you worship Quetzelcoatl, you aren't going to be allowed to cut out someone's heart for a sacrifice. A Kali worshipper can't strangle a sacrifical victim and the druids can't burn a man in a basket at Samhain.

For the same reason, I think that sooner or later, we must prohibit Islam in this country.
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By your own logic (see above), the appropriate thing to do is simply prohibit practices which violate the persons, property and rights of others -- not ban the religion as a whole.

There isn't a single interpretation of the First Amendment which has stood the test of time (or the courts) that would support such a ban.
 
j-mac said:
1st amendment?!!! 1st amendment?!!! What in the world makes you think that radical Islam gives two wits about what our Bill of Rights says, other than to use dupes in this country to use them against us?
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That's the thing about being a society of law -- it doesn't matter if the other guys ignore the law or not, we still have to obey it.
 
j-mac said:
I am pointing out that radical Islam could care less about our piece of paper and declarations of rights when it comes to dominating the western culture and destroying it in the name of Allah.
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Then it appears they share that in common with you due to your wanton desire to disregard and degrade said "piece of paper".
 
"to improve west-muslim relations..."

LOL!
 
ric27 said:
Why don't you try reading the New Testament and then judge Christianity?
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I taught it for 16 years.

If however the practice involves something like killing an unbeliever, stoning a woman to death for sitting in a car with a man who is not her husband or relative, etc., then EVERY other Christian denomination is going to stand up and say that ISN'T in the Bible and it ISN'T Christian.
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If Islamists do these things, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

For the record, the Bible advises that parents abuse/beat their children. Should we start prosecuting people for that belief?
 
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