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Ground zero mosque wins key vote

The founding fathers were men of character and much of that character was due to their foundation as believers in Christ.
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I can't speak for all the founding fathers but:

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814



How did the founding fathers view Muslims?
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I dunno, let's ask Mr. Jefferson?


Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
How did the founding fathers view Muslims?
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First of all, it is impossible to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies.

But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and then, we have a system (Islam) where human rights are not observed. Women are treated as property plus there has never been an Islamic enlightenment where barbaric 9th century practices have been reviewed and rejected.

Islam is a social framework fundamentally at odds with our country and is incompatible with American values and ideals
 
ric27 said:
First of all, it is impossible to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies.
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Many, including Jefferson and Franklin, were Deists. Whether or not this country was founded on these values is a moot point as preferential treatment toward one religion over the other is banned.

ric27 said:
But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and then, we have a system (Islam) where human rights are not observed. Women are treated as property plus there has never been an Islamic enlightenment where barbaric 9th century practices have been reviewed and rejected.

Islam is a social framework fundamentally at odds with our country and is incompatible with American values and ideals
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Some Muslims see it that way, others don't. Trying to put 1.1 billion people onto a single group like that is bound to fail. You can pull up some out of context quote from the Koran telling you to kill infidels, and 95% of Muslims will tell you they have a different interpretation of it.
 
I think you are too close to the forest to see the trees. First off, the Bible is history, prophecy, poetry, the law, etc. Taken all together, it imparts moral principles and guidance. With that in mind, take a look at the writings of the founding fathers, including the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and see if it conflicts with the Biblical values or does it incorporate them?
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The bible is not history, prophecy or the law. To believe any of that you would have to be delusional. Literally delusional.
 
ric27 said:
First of all, it is impossible to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies.

But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and then, we have a system (Islam) where human rights are not observed. Women are treated as property plus there has never been an Islamic enlightenment where barbaric 9th century practices have been reviewed and rejected.

Islam is a social framework fundamentally at odds with our country and is incompatible with American values and ideals
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You want me to find some quotes from Franklin, Adams and Washington to show how uneducated you are on the facts of our nation's inventors? While they might have been raised to believe such initially, Franking specifically despised religion and what it's purpose was, specifically by the perscuting England at the time.

In fact, one of the foundations of our nation is to escape religious perscution from the likes of England's monarchy.

I myself have my quarrels with fundamental and strict muslims (although such a thing does not exist in United States) and am Baptist, but I also believe in our great country and what our founding fathers truly believed in.

The bible is not history, prophecy or the law. To believe any of that you would have to be delusional. Literally delusional.
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Nor do I believe this. There are historic events from other texts throughout history and scientific evidence (for example the great flood) that correlate with events in the Bible. There is also plenty prophecy in the Bible, the issue here though is that we do not need to allow our own personal believes pervert what our nation stands for.
 
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MrVicchio said:
I was responding to your comment implying that Churches get "preferential treatment" as some sort of Federally mandated affair. I was scoffing at you dear. SCOFFING.
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I don't believe churches DO get preferential treatment. However, I think that people like Ric think they SHOULD, that in essence we should legally favor Christianity over Islam or any other system of belief. That is clearly a departure from the thinking of the founding fathers.

I scoff at him. SCOFF. ;)

We could scoff together, if you'd like. :D
 
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ric27 said:
But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
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This is not a biblical thought. It's an enlightenment thought. If you do believe it is a Christian thought, please feel free to provide the relevant scriptural reference.
 
Nor do I believe this. There are historic events from other texts throughout history and scientific evidence (for example the great flood) that correlate with events in the Bible.
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Just because the authors of the bible wrote in a historical context does not mean that the bible is history. There is so much in the bible's "history" that has contradicted actual scientific findings that to say so you would literally have to be delusional. As a work of fiction and literature it was set in a historical setting and perhaps addressed historical events to some extent, but it is not a historical work, it is a literary work.

There is also plenty prophecy in the Bible
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No there isn't. Again, to believe in prophecies you would have to be literally delusional.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I don't believe churches DO get preferential treatment. However, I think that people like Ric think they SHOULD, that in essence we should legally favor Christianity over Islam or any other system of belief. That is clearly a departure from the thinking of the founding fathers.

I scoff at him. SCOFF. ;)

We could scoff together, if you'd like. :D
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Well, Churches having political power, I agree with you and the Founders would as well.

Churches being important to the National Fabric? Something to be, cherished, the Bible looked to for moral guidance... the Founders would have emphatically said YES too.

They feared, and rightly so, State Gov't, what they failed to foresee, was Gov't as religion. :(
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Just because the authors of the bible wrote in a historical context does not mean that the bible is history. There is so much in the bible's "history" that has contradicted actual scientific findings that to say so you would literally have to be delusional. As a work of fiction and literature it was set in a historical setting and perhaps addressed historical events to some extent, but it is not a historical work, it is a literary work.



No there isn't. Again, to believe in prophecies you would have to be literally delusional.
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We get it, you don't like the Bible and you think anyone that believes in it is a ****ing idiot.

Yay you.
 
The Prof said:
worst of all worlds

all pain, no gain

this mosque aint never gonna be built

just like ksm, just like cap and trade, just like arizona, just like health care

leadership will never get what they tried for, yet they'll pay just as bad as if they had

better?
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Yea, good luck with that.

Hate all you want

But that won't stop the mosque

From being built

How do I know?

Because the Pentagon

(which was also attacked on 911)

Already has a mosque.

Oh my god, abracadabra, and beelzebub!!

Feel your hate.

Feel the burn.

It is eating you alive.

Like a fiery cannibal it comes for you

And you embrace it as it eats you alive.

Barry has beaten you.

Time to cry.
 
danarhea said:
Yea, good luck with that.

Hate all you want

But that won't stop the mosque

From being built

How do I know?

Because the Pentagon

(which was also attacked on 911)

Already has a mosque.

Oh my god, abracadabra, and beelzebub!!

Feel your hate.

Feel the burn.

It is eating you alive.

Like a fiery cannibal it comes for you

And you embrace it as it eats you alive.

Barry has beaten you.

Time to cry.
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Um Dan, your left out the

LOL!

At the end :2razz:
 
danarhea said:
Yea, good luck with that.

Hate all you want

But that won't stop the mosque

From being built

How do I know?

Because the Pentagon

(which was also attacked on 911)

Already has a mosque.

Oh my god, abracadabra, and beelzebub!!

Feel your hate.

Feel the burn.

It is eating you alive.

Like a fiery cannibal it comes for you

And you embrace it as it eats you alive.

Barry has beaten you.

Time to cry.
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This was truly a beautiful piece of politics.
 
danarhea said:
Yea, good luck with that.

Hate all you want

But that won't stop the mosque

From being built

How do I know?

Because the Pentagon

(which was also attacked on 911)

Already has a mosque.

Oh my god, abracadabra, and beelzebub!!

Feel your hate.

Feel the burn.

It is eating you alive.

Like a fiery cannibal it comes for you

And you embrace it as it eats you alive.

Barry has beaten you.

Time to cry.
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your tone---pure hysteria!

LOL!
 
mike barnicle on msnbc this am---they're gonna have to move this thing

coffee joe---property's so hard to find down there...

it's starting
 
danarhea said:
Yea, good luck with that.

Hate all you want

But that won't stop the mosque

From being built

How do I know?

Because the Pentagon

(which was also attacked on 911)

Already has a mosque.

Oh my god, abracadabra, and beelzebub!!

Feel your hate.

Feel the burn.

It is eating you alive.

Like a fiery cannibal it comes for you

And you embrace it as it eats you alive.

Barry has beaten you.

Time to cry.
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The Pentagon also has

A church where it stands

They share the land

And know where they stand

The greatest loss of life

Occurred beyond this site

And Ignorance is indeed bliss

While we watch you dissmiss

The families of the victims that lost everything they had that day

Time to cry indeed.
 
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ric27 said:
First of all, it is impossible to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies.

But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and then, we have a system (Islam) where human rights are not observed. Women are treated as property plus there has never been an Islamic enlightenment where barbaric 9th century practices have been reviewed and rejected.

Islam is a social framework fundamentally at odds with our country and is incompatible with American values and ideals
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Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read article 11.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
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Guy Incognito said:
Correction: The people who are building this mosque are courageous people of faith, bravely putting up with small mindedness and bigotry. But how nice of you to condescend to admit that they are within their inalienable rights.
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Correction the person responsible for the building this Mosque is a Sharia law supporting Islamist POS who thinks that the U.S. brought 9-11 on itself and doesn't consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization. **** him and **** people who support him. Let him build his little shrine to oppression and let us use our liberty to protest until he takes his shrine to oppression somewhere the **** else.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Correction the person responsible for the building this Mosque is a Sharia law supporting Islamist POS who thinks that the U.S. brought 9-11 on itself and doesn't consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization. **** him and **** people who support him. Let him build his little shrine to oppression and let us use our liberty to protest until he takes his shrine to oppression somewhere the **** else.
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Yet the guy that is building it has worked for the United States and has helped forge relationships between the United States and Islamic countries. You have a very closed minded point of view.

As I think I said before, I have my reservations with the location of the mosque but it is a free country and thus the point.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Yet the guy that is building it has worked for the United States and has helped forge relationships between the United States and Islamic countries. You have a very closed minded point of view.
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Really? Ya he has worked for the U.S. just like the unindicted co-conspirators of CAIR. If blaming us for 9-11 is working for us then I hate to see working against us. :roll:
 
Agent Ferris said:
Really? Ya he has worked for the U.S. just like the unindicted co-conspirators of CAIR. If blaming us for 9-11 is working for us then I hate to see working against us. :roll:
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I hate to break up this party.

But the last time you claimed something like this, which was that the ground breaking ceremony was gonna be on 9/11 2011. That turned out to be false.

You seem to have very little interest in the truth Ferris. You wanna stop this no matter what. How do I know this claim about what he said is false too?
 
We get it, you don't like the Bible and you think anyone that believes in it is a ****ing idiot.
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It has nothing to do with whether or not I like the bible; historic fact contradicts the "history" of the bible. The only people that actually believe that the bible is historic fact are the same people that are willing to believe the bible over science. Which leads me to my next point, and that is that to believe in any sort of prophecy, biblical or otherwise, is delusional. There is no such thing as prophecy.

And by the way, I think the bible is a wonderful work of literature. I just tend to believe in science/history/common sense instead of taking what was written in a book as truth.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
It has nothing to do with whether or not I like the bible; historic fact contradicts the "history" of the bible. The only people that actually believe that the bible is historic fact are the same people that are willing to believe the bible over science. Which leads me to my next point, and that is that to believe in any sort of prophecy, biblical or otherwise, is delusional. There is no such thing as prophecy.

And by the way, I think the bible is a wonderful work of literature. I just tend to believe in science/history/common sense instead of taking what was written in a book as truth.
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I dunno that is a thin line you tread, really a lot of scientist can and have argued that the conditions and what was described in the bible correlate with the time that is actually supposed to be happening but that is neither here nor there. You almost validate him by bringing in the science of a religious book into the conversation when it ultimately is supposed to be about if these guys can build their little Y center or not.
 
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