• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Rep. Weiner Wigs Out on Republicans

apdst said:
You still haven't answered the question as to whether, or not, you know what's in the bill.
Click to expand...

you still haven't indicated why that is germane to this discussion
 
justabubba said:
parlimentary procedure required republican assistance for the bill
watch this and see:
Video Library - wcbstv.com
Click to expand...

Do you read anyone else's posts, or just the short ones? Or none?

"At the heart of the debate was a procedural maneuver made by Democrats to suspend the rules before consideration of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act. The move allowed leadership to block potential GOP amendments to the measure (there was worry that Republicans would attach something overtly partisan in hopes that it could pass on the otherwise widely-popular measure). It also meant that the party needed a two-thirds majority vote." Anthony Weiner Goes Ballistic At GOP For Killing 9/11 Responders Health Care Bill (VIDEO)

Their decision to suspend the rules and not allow some Republican input/amendments backfired. Too bad. So sad. Why would anyone blame the Republicans? Are we sure the "gentleman" isn't named Whiner?

What's in this bill?? Nobody's discussing its contents. Another one of those PC bills that cost taxpayers billions?
Click to expand...
 
justabubba said:
watch this and learn why the bill failed because of the absence of GOP support
the party of NO prevent assistance to the first responders of 9/11
too bad they are not multi national corporations, we could then count on the GOP to throw money in their direction

Video Library - wcbstv.com
Click to expand...

And do you place any blame for the bill's failure on the Democrats for electing to suspend the rules before putting the bill up to vote....??



.
 
justabubba said:
you still haven't indicated why that is germane to this discussion
Click to expand...

You obviously don't know what's in the bill. I can't find what's in it either. So much for the Party of Transparency, yes? Why is it germane? Well, huh!! How 'bout before you Yankee Doodle Dandy the name of the BILL you actually know what's in it that didn't pass?? Hellooooooo.
 
Okay, here's the truth.

The Dem's decided the bill should pass "as is". This means that they didn't want it messed with. I can understand that, except that this is a multi-billion dollar "Help a small group of people 10 years later" bill. That should raise eyebrows. that 7.2 BILLION could provide $720,000 to 10,000 people. (I merely use this as a speaking point to help people understand how big a number this is).

What could the GOP do to kill this bill? And why would they want too? It's a feel good, help the responders/families of 9/11 affair. To kill it under the auspices of "It's too much" would hurt the politically. So that makes no sense. I think there is something in there that doesn't pass the smell test. Payoffs/deals to certain political members doners.

So when they force a 2/3rds vote or else, they figured the GOP would vote and go along meekly. That they didn't sent this classless bozo into a tizzy. He's most likely mad that a promised deal to a big contributor has died rather then upset that money didn't go to help families.

The DEMS forced this, trying to ram it through, the GOP didn't kill the measure out of lack of heart, but because the issue was forced on them, and they actually did the right thing this time.

You hyper-partisans scareming about the evil GOP best step back and look at this issue carefully, your lack of circumspection is exposing your inability to think for yourselves. Do you throw a tantrum just cause the Dem's tell you too?
 
MaggieD said:
"At the heart of the debate was a procedural maneuver made by Democrats to suspend the rules before consideration of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act. The move allowed leadership to block potential GOP amendments to the measure (there was worry that Republicans would attach something overtly partisan in hopes that it could pass on the otherwise widely-popular measure). It also meant that the party needed a two-thirds majority vote." Anthony Weiner Goes Ballistic At GOP For Killing 9/11 Responders Health Care Bill (VIDEO)

Their decision to suspend the rules and not allow some Republican input/amendments backfired. Too bad. So sad. Why would anyone blame the Republicans? Are we sure the "gentleman" isn't named Whiner?

What's in this bill?? Nobody's discussing its contents. Another one of those PC bills that cost taxpayers billions?
Click to expand...

This is called Democratic Washington transparency.
In other words so transparent it is opaque.
 
MaggieD said:
You obviously don't know what's in the bill. I can't find what's in it either. So much for the Party of Transparency, yes? Why is it germane? Well, huh!! How 'bout before you Yankee Doodle Dandy the name of the BILL you actually know what's in it that didn't pass?? Hellooooooo.
Click to expand...

didn't realize you had a difficult time finding out what is contained within the bil. here is a summary
(1) medical monitoring and treatment benefits to eligible emergency responders and recovery and cleanup workers who responded to the World Trade Center terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001; and
(2) initial health evaluation, monitoring, and treatment benefits to residents and other building occupants and area workers who were directly impacted and adversely affected by such attacks. Requires the WTC program administrator to:
(1) implement a quality assurance program;
(2) establish the WTC Health Program Scientific/Technical Advisory Committee;
(3) establish the WTC Responders Steering Committee and the WTC Community Program Steering Committee;
(4) provide for education and outreach on services under the WTC program;
(5) provide for the uniform collection of data related to WTC-related health conditions;
(6) conduct research on physical and mental health conditions that may be related to the September 11 terrorist attacks; and
(7) extend and expand arrangements with the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene to provide for the World Trade Center Health Registry. Authorizes the administrator to make grants to the Department to address mental health needs relating to the terrorist attacks.Amends the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act to:
(1) make individuals eligible for compensation under the September 11 Victim Compensation Fund of 2001 for harm as a result of debris removal; and
(2) extend the deadline for making a claim for compensation.
nothing there that troubles me, as i do think we should FINALLY help those 9/11 rescuers who are facing multiple health problems. many were falsely told that the area was not hazardous to work in and they thus exposed their health to harm by believing rudy julieannie's people. the government is culpable

but the GOP wanted to take a straight forward bill and introduce an amendment which would say any illegal alien who was a 9/11 rescuer would be denied access to the provisions of the bill
that was a transparent attempt by the GOP to portray the dems as a party willing to sell out the hispanic copmmunity like the GOP is inclined to do
the dems did not bite
but to avoid the amendment they imposed a rule which required a two thirds vote for passage .... as you will see in the video below, 94% of the dems voted for helping the 9/11 rescurers ... the republicans, not so much
but don't take my word for it, see king, the minority whip, get his ass handed to him by Weiner:
New York Dem on rampage after GOP blocks help for 9/11 heroes | Raw Story
 
justabubba said:
you still haven't indicated why that is germane to this discussion
Click to expand...

Unless one knows EXACTLY what is in any particular Bill, how can anyone be asked (in a supposedly democratic chamber) to vote for the Bill?
As well as any and all amendments added to the Bill.
Or would you prefer the Communist system where a motion is put forward and all the (elected) members then have to vote for it.
Naturally there are people making note of anyone who does not vote for the motion.
The non voters are removed from the chamber and taken away to be questioned by KGB or FSB secret police, after which they are shot.
 
Last edited:
jujuman13 said:
Unless one knows EXACTLY what is in any particular Bill, how can anyone be asked (in a supposedly democratic chamber) to vote for the Bill?
As well as any and all amendments added to the Bill.
Or would you prefer the Communist system where a motion is put forward and all the (elected) members then have to vote for it.
Naturally there are people making note of anyone who does not vote for the motion.
The non voters are removed from the chamber and taken away to be questioned by KGB or FSB secret police, after which they are shot.
Click to expand...

i am delighted to learn you feel this way
but that does not explain your opposition to the bill while failing to know what was contained within it
 
I had to dig through a few pages of Democrat talking points to get something from the GOP side of this issue. Not the fake outrage being pushed by the MSM with disgusting vindictiveness.

And it’s all paid for by closing a tax loophole on foreign companies with U.S. subsidiaries, Democrats said.

But according to Republicans, it’s a job-killing growth of government that wou;d create a new entitlement and waste taxpayer dollars.

The bill, if passed, would reopen the Victims Compensation Fund until 2031 — instead of litigation, victims could try to get money from the fund. Republicans are calling the extension “well beyond what is needed to take care of latent claims,” according to a policy statement from the GOP.

“Republicans continue to believe that those who responded to the [World Trade Center] attack should get the treatment and liability protection they need because they dutifully answered a call for help,” the policy statement reads.

But this bill, according to Republicans, “creates a massive new entitlement program, exposes taxpayers to increased litigation and is ‘paid for’ with tax increases and potential job losses.”
Click to expand...
House GOP leaders: 9/11 first responders aid bill 'a massive new entitlement program' - On Congress - POLITICO.com


http://www.gop.gov/bill/111/2/hr847

Official GOP Stance on the issue, and makes a much different case then the BS we see spun here.
 
Last edited:
justabubba said:
(1) medical monitoring and treatment benefits to eligible emergency responders and recovery and cleanup workers who responded to the World Trade Center terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001; and
(2) initial health evaluation, monitoring, and treatment benefits to residents and other building occupants and area workers who were directly impacted and adversely affected by such attacks. Requires the WTC program administrator to:
(1) implement a quality assurance program;
(2) establish the WTC Health Program Scientific/Technical Advisory Committee;
(3) establish the WTC Responders Steering Committee and the WTC Community Program Steering Committee;
(4) provide for education and outreach on services under the WTC program;
(5) provide for the uniform collection of data related to WTC-related health conditions;
(6) conduct research on physical and mental health conditions that may be related to the September 11 terrorist attacks; and
(7) extend and expand arrangements with the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene to provide for the World Trade Center Health Registry. Authorizes the administrator to make grants to the Department to address mental health needs relating to the terrorist attacks.Amends the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act to:
(1) make individuals eligible for compensation under the September 11 Victim Compensation Fund of 2001 for harm as a result of debris removal; and
(2) extend the deadline for making a claim for compensation.
nothing there that troubles me, as i do think we should FINALLY help those 9/11 rescuers who are facing multiple health problems. many were falsely told that the area was not hazardous to work in and they thus exposed their health to harm by believing rudy julieannie's people. the government is culpable

but the GOP wanted to take a straight forward bill and introduce an amendment which would say any illegal alien who was a 9/11 rescuer would be denied access to the provisions of the bill
that was a transparent attempt by the GOP to portray the dems as a party willing to sell out the hispanic copmmunity like the GOP is inclined to do
the dems did not bite
but to avoid the amendment they imposed a rule which required a two thirds vote for passage .... as you will see in the video below, 94% of the dems voted for helping the 9/11 rescurers ... the republicans, not so much
but don't take my word for it, see king, the minority whip, get his ass handed to him by Weiner:
New York Dem on rampage after GOP blocks help for 9/11 heroes | Raw Story
Click to expand...

I have a problem with all of that. Those provisions are so vague, that this $7.4 billion bucks will get wasted in a huge way.

(1) medical monitoring and treatment benefits to eligible emergency responders and recovery and cleanup workers who responded to the World Trade Center terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001
Click to expand...

Take this one for example. How in hell do you verify that a person was actually at ground zero during the specified time period?
 
apdst said:
I have a problem with all of that. Those provisions are so vague, that this $7.4 billion bucks will get wasted in a huge way.


Take this one for example. How in hell do you verify that a person was actually at ground zero during the specified time period?
Click to expand...

by their paycheck stubs
 
justabubba said:
by their paycheck stubs
Click to expand...

And, if they don't have check stubs from two years ago, they're **** outta luck?

What's going to happen when some guy, who worked for Joe's Meat House--where the meat's cheap--in Linden, NJ and just happened to be near Ground Zero and volunteered to help shows up with a cough, wanting some of this 7 billion?

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why these folks aren't going to be covered under the brand new, wonderful Obamacare.
 
Suspending the rules normally is used to quickly pass non-controversial bills; you know, like paying for health care for 9-11 first responders.

The procedure normally works except when only eleven Republicans stand up and support the heroes who rushed to aid Americans on the worse day in our nation's recent history. It is shameful that so few Republicans were willing to support them.
 
Chappy said:
Suspending the rules normally is used to quickly pass non-controversial bills; you know, like paying for health care for 9-11 first responders.

The procedure normally works except when only eleven Republicans stand up and support the heroes who rushed to aid Americans on the worse day in our nation's recent history. It is shameful that so few Republicans were willing to support them.
Click to expand...

First things first, the reason why Republicans were against this bill was because it would increase taxes just to fund this new program. I mean why the heck do we need to make a new entitlement program when we got that monster HealthCare Bill that was passed already. And any form of taxes is never a good idea during a recovery from a recession. That will just stall the recovery. It's like having a blackout, then as soon as the power comes back on, people start turning on all their A/C and electronics, it's just gonna cause another blackout. I am for helping those at the WTC during 9/11, but this is not the right way. Should we ignore common sense because we follow our emotions? I hope not....
 
apdst said:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why these folks aren't going to be covered under the brand new, wonderful Obamacare.
Click to expand...

That's like saying "why would anybody need a retirement program when we have social security?" The intention of health care is to assist an individual who gets sick or needs care. The last time you or one of your family members went to the hospital, were you shocked to see that insurance wasn't going to pay every last penny? Of course not. Your argument is a lovely little straw man to prevent you from having to face the fact that you're sitting around mocking people who think we should provide federal assistance for the first responders on 9/11. Imagine if somebody came up to you in 2002 and told you that in 2010, you'd be disgusted by the idea of our government providing care for the heroes at ground zero who are suffering from permanent health problems due to their heroics.

Debating policy is good, blind partisanship should have no place in American politics. Unfortunately, that seems like all there is these days.
 
Last edited:
justabubba said:
if the content of the bill was objectionable why would the GOP cowards not come out of hiding and vote against it because it was without merit?
Click to expand...

I didnt ask about the republicans Bubba...I asked YOU. I KNOW most of those assholes in congress vote on things based on party line. Ive said it a hundred times...rpublicans-democrats they are all absolute scumbags party driven. I asked YOU. You jump in here like you have the first ****ing clue and scream TEHY SHOULDA VOTED FOR IT!!!

Really? Voted for WHAT exactly? Quick...before you look it up and pretend like YOU have the first ****ing CLUE about this before Weener blew his gasket...
 
justabubba said:
didn't realize you had a difficult time finding out what is contained within the bil. here is a summary
(1) medical monitoring and treatment benefits to eligible emergency responders and recovery and cleanup workers who responded to the World Trade Center terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001; and
(2) initial health evaluation, monitoring, and treatment benefits to residents and other building occupants and area workers who were directly impacted and adversely affected by such attacks. Requires the WTC program administrator to:
(1) implement a quality assurance program;
(2) establish the WTC Health Program Scientific/Technical Advisory Committee;
(3) establish the WTC Responders Steering Committee and the WTC Community Program Steering Committee;
(4) provide for education and outreach on services under the WTC program;
(5) provide for the uniform collection of data related to WTC-related health conditions;
(6) conduct research on physical and mental health conditions that may be related to the September 11 terrorist attacks; and
(7) extend and expand arrangements with the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene to provide for the World Trade Center Health Registry. Authorizes the administrator to make grants to the Department to address mental health needs relating to the terrorist attacks.Amends the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act to:
(1) make individuals eligible for compensation under the September 11 Victim Compensation Fund of 2001 for harm as a result of debris removal; and
(2) extend the deadline for making a claim for compensation.
nothing there that troubles me, as i do think we should FINALLY help those 9/11 rescuers who are facing multiple health problems. many were falsely told that the area was not hazardous to work in and they thus exposed their health to harm by believing rudy julieannie's people. the government is culpable

but the GOP wanted to take a straight forward bill and introduce an amendment which would say any illegal alien who was a 9/11 rescuer would be denied access to the provisions of the bill
that was a transparent attempt by the GOP to portray the dems as a party willing to sell out the hispanic copmmunity like the GOP is inclined to do
the dems did not bite
but to avoid the amendment they imposed a rule which required a two thirds vote for passage .... as you will see in the video below, 94% of the dems voted for helping the 9/11 rescurers ... the republicans, not so much
but don't take my word for it, see king, the minority whip, get his ass handed to him by Weiner:
New York Dem on rampage after GOP blocks help for 9/11 heroes | Raw Story
Click to expand...

Thats PRECISELY what I thought. You didnt have a CLUE...so you jumped on line and looked it up. Now...tell...me...which of..say...1-7 in your minds justifies spending 7.4 billion dollars? How much of their 'health care' is beign denied by the government creating of beauracracy and commissions?
 
Mustachio said:
That's like saying "why would anybody need a retirement program when we have social security?" The intention of health care is to assist an individual who gets sick or needs care. The last time you or one of your family members went to the hospital, were you shocked to see that insurance wasn't going to pay every last penny? Of course not. Your argument is a lovely little straw man to prevent you from having to face the fact that you're sitting around mocking people who think we should provide federal assistance for the first responders on 9/11. Imagine if somebody came up to you in 2002 and told you that in 2010, you'd be disgusted by the idea of our government providing care for the heroes at ground zero who are suffering from permanent health problems due to their heroics.

Debating policy is good, blind partisanship should have no place in American politics. Unfortunately, that seems like all there is these days.
Click to expand...

The creation of commissions and panels...spending 7.4 billion dollars for beauracracy...thats GOOD? How exactly?

You know...if this was strictly a health care proposal to provide for those workers...booom...right there with you. Lets do it TODAY. But thats not what it is, is it?
 
Chappy said:
Really? How about a quote from that “article” supporting that claim. Include the part about Rep. Wiener calling the Republicans “cowards,” just for context's sake.
Click to expand...

"It was wrong for the overwhelming majority of Republicans to vote against the bill, and it was wrong for Democrats to bring the bill to the floor under rules that made passage so much more difficult," he said."

That wasnt so hard, now was it...

Simple fact...SDaisy Duke posted an article about a democrat that madse himself look like an even greater ass than what he already is losing it on thye floor...and because it involved republicans you and several others fell all over yourselves posting comments as if you even had the FIRST CLUE about what was in the legislation. Kneejerk liberal idealogues...ya just gotta love em...
 
MrVicchio said:
Okay, here's the truth.

The Dem's decided the bill should pass "as is". This means that they didn't want it messed with. I can understand that, except that this is a multi-billion dollar "Help a small group of people 10 years later" bill. That should raise eyebrows. that 7.2 BILLION could provide $720,000 to 10,000 people. (I merely use this as a speaking point to help people understand how big a number this is).

What could the GOP do to kill this bill? And why would they want too? It's a feel good, help the responders/families of 9/11 affair. To kill it under the auspices of "It's too much" would hurt the politically. So that makes no sense. I think there is something in there that doesn't pass the smell test. Payoffs/deals to certain political members doners.

So when they force a 2/3rds vote or else, they figured the GOP would vote and go along meekly. That they didn't sent this classless bozo into a tizzy. He's most likely mad that a promised deal to a big contributor has died rather then upset that money didn't go to help families.

The DEMS forced this, trying to ram it through, the GOP didn't kill the measure out of lack of heart, but because the issue was forced on them, and they actually did the right thing this time.

You hyper-partisans scareming about the evil GOP best step back and look at this issue carefully, your lack of circumspection is exposing your inability to think for yourselves. Do you throw a tantrum just cause the Dem's tell you too?
Click to expand...

My guess...mind you...this is just a guess...is that the democrats who CONTROL the house and senate didnt really WANT this thing passed...which is why they sent it up for a 2/3 majority vote. They WANTED it to fail. Why?

Well...witness the mindless responses bleating on about evil republicans for starters...
 
VanceMack said:
My guess...mind you...this is just a guess...is that the democrats who CONTROL the house and senate didnt really WANT this thing passed...which is why they sent it up for a 2/3 majority vote. They WANTED it to fail. Why?

Well...witness the mindless responses bleating on about evil republicans for starters...
Click to expand...

no surprise, you guessed wrong again

the change was because the GOP insisted on using the bill for political advantage, by introducing an amendment which would deny any authorized funds for illegal aliens
to avoid that political detour, the demos had to engage another process requiring a super majority
94% of the demos voted to approve funding for the health care of the 9/11 responders
only 12 republicans supported the measure - causing it to fail

btw, this has been posted previously, but from your reply it was apparent you chose not to read it
 
What the hell? Why would the republican deny people who where the first to respond to 9/11? Congressman Anthony Weiner you are freaking awesome in my book.
 
VanceMack said:
The creation of commissions and panels...spending 7.4 billion dollars for beauracracy...thats GOOD? How exactly?

You know...if this was strictly a health care proposal to provide for those workers...booom...right there with you. Lets do it TODAY. But thats not what it is, is it?
Click to expand...

Well, those who go above and beyond for this country should have the favor returned to them. I strongly believe in using federal powers to provide for those who make this nation great, but I understand the argument of the fiscal conservative. I think that's what upset Weiner and that's what upsets me about this bill being voted down -- it SHOULD have been a debate about whether or not the bill was fiscally viable and whether or not the good would outweigh potential abuses. Instead, Republicans overwhelmingly backed the bill until Democrats blocked them from pushing through partisan amendments. It was extremely childish for them to suddenly turn their backs on a bill they had supported all along.

I'm not from New York and I'm not sure whether Weiner was upset about their behavior or the fact that the bill was going to be voted down... probably a mix of both. I respect fiscal conservatives but I would urge them to recognize the fact that when Republican congressmen do something they agree with, it's merely coincidental.
 
justabubba said:
no surprise, you guessed wrong again

the change was because the GOP insisted on using the bill for political advantage, by introducing an amendment which would deny any authorized funds for illegal aliens
to avoid that political detour, the demos had to engage another process requiring a super majority
94% of the demos voted to approve funding for the health care of the 9/11 responders
only 12 republicans supported the measure - causing it to fail

btw, this has been posted previously, but from your reply it was apparent you chose not to read it
Click to expand...

Golly...you are SO up on this! You must follow thi...no...wait...you are reading liberal blogs again arent you...just like always...and pretending you have the FIRST ****ING CLUE about ANY of this. Bubba...please...TELL me you even KNEW about ANY of this before Daisy started the thread. Please...cuz I havent had a REALLY good laugh all day...

Did you BOTHER to indicate which of those first seven legislative provisions even came CLOSE to providing care? Of COURSE not. SHOCKING! :shock:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom