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WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

SE102 said:
Something tells me this enrages people because the leaked info doesn't suit their political agenda.
Also, the govt stated the info was ultimately irrelevant. (NPR)
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And something tells me that you are cherry picking interviews to match your own opinion on the subject. The Pentagon says that they can't begin to asses the damage until they go over all the information released.

And if the information creates enough political impetus to stop wasting our resources on an un-winnable war?
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Why is it so important to liberals for America to lose a war?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Hmmmm....I see. And if and when this information released is tied back to the death of some American troops, will he still be a patriot?


j-mac
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to you it is found unpatriotic to disclose the truth

no surprise
 
justabubba said:
to you it is found unpatriotic to disclose the truth

no surprise
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Not at all. Way to smear. It was you that called this Swede a patriot to begin with. Now, I don't think that it is right that some liberal goof from another country releases information that is classified without a care in the world as to what that means to the men and women on the battle field.

You, apparently think it is all good....We disagree, I am shocked.

j-mac
 
justabubba said:
to you it is found unpatriotic to disclose the truth

no surprise
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Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The public's right to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a bunch a' nonsense. Good thing some of you weren't around for D-Day. It is unpatriotic to sabotage your country's own effectivenes in a war. It's immaterial here, though, because it's my understanding the owner of the website is not an American.

Actually, the much more important question is, "If these were still classified Secret, how were they obtained?"
 
MaggieD said:
Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The public's right to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a bunch a' nonsense. Good thing some of you weren't around for D-Day. It is unpatriotic to sabotage your country's own effectivenes in a war. It's immaterial here, though, because it's my understanding the owner of the website is not an American.

Actually, the much more important question is, "If these were still classified Secret, how were they obtained?"
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It's a much better kept secret. :giggle:
 
Apocalypse said:
I don't think it's really "a group" or some united entity.
It's probably just some army and state officials that are acting as individuals to aid the insurgency against the US and Karzai, from political reasoning.
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Yeah, its the ISI, the Pakistani "Inter-Services Intelligence" Agency, that does most of the support of the insurgency. Yeah, the Parliament and the Prime Minister are kind of separated from the military and the intelligence agency. There is a whole struggle for power within the government. And I agree with Rathi, we gotta find a way to support the democracy part and not let the funds go to the intelligence agency/military for their own purposes.
 
j-mac said:
Why is it so important to liberals for America to lose a war?
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Why is it so important to mire yourself in wars against native peoples in their own states only winnable by genocide? My question is way better. :shrug:

And something tells me that you are cherry picking interviews to match your own opinion on the subject. The Pentagon says that they can't begin to asses the damage until they go over all the information released.
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Look, amigo, you dont have enough info to know what my opinion is. Does NPR strike you as liberal?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Members should remain on topic. Please avoid making direct or indirect assertions about one another's patriotism, desire to win/lose the war, etc.

Thank you.
 
Just a couple points: Whether you support or oppose the war in Afghanistan, support or oppose either this administration or the Bush administration, I would hope we can all get on the same page and condemn any one who leaks classified information to the press. They have chosen to break the law, and break their word. I could almost accept it if there was some stunning, public needs to know type information in this, but there is nothing of the sort in this.

On the other hand, I see nothing in what is reported so far that is going to put our troops at extra risk. The hysteria on both sides of this is sad.
 
Redress said:
Just a couple points: Whether you support or oppose the war in Afghanistan, support or oppose either this administration or the Bush administration, I would hope we can all get on the same page and condemn any one who leaks classified information to the press. They have chosen to break the law, and break their word. I could almost accept it if there was some stunning, public needs to know type information in this, but there is nothing of the sort in this.

On the other hand, I see nothing in what is reported so far that is going to put our troops at extra risk. The hysteria on both sides of this is sad.
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I disagree with this.
We're not totally sure how information is classified, not because its for true national security but because it protects individual interests.

I don't care if people leak that stuff, I think it's a good thing.
 
MrVicchio said:
The people responsible for Wikileaks need to be arrested, and their website shut down permanently.
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liblady said:
why? did the release threaten national security?
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PeteEU said:
Ahh good to know you are against free speech and all that wiz bang..

You do know that all the material released had only Top Secret classification right? The lowest secret classification there is...
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A long standing maxium from the Navy, "Loose lips sink ships."

Each and every one of the leaked documents stand to jeapordize the war effort and endanger our troops. They compromising troop movement, they identifying the code names and location of U.S./NATO military bases, and they further heightening the extremist hateful attitude against Americans by identifying those Taliban and Al Quaida leaders who have been killed by U.S./NATO forces. So, yes, these leaked documents threaten our national security. And yes, websites like WikiLeaks need to be shut down! This IS NOT free speech!! No one on WikiLeaks is speaking directly about troop movements, about activities that take place on U.S./NATO military bases in Afghanistan, or provided a general reporting of insurgents who have been targeted or killed. These are leaked classified documents that speak directly to our military plans, strategies, troop movements, combat liabilities (targeted extremist) and so much more that are deeply associated with the Afghan war effort.

So, yes, for the first time I agree with MrVicchio here. The individuals who leaked this classified information should be found, tried and either imprisoned for their actions or executed for treason if the individual(s) who did this is/are American. There's no possible excuse one can give that would explain away making such documents/information public during war time. NONE!
 
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Redress said:
Just a couple points: Whether you support or oppose the war in Afghanistan, support or oppose either this administration or the Bush administration, I would hope we can all get on the same page and condemn any one who leaks classified information to the press. They have chosen to break the law, and break their word. I could almost accept it if there was some stunning, public needs to know type information in this, but there is nothing of the sort in this.

On the other hand, I see nothing in what is reported so far that is going to put our troops at extra risk. The hysteria on both sides of this is sad.
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if i understand you, despite recognizing that no top secret information released is directly harmful to our troops, you want to punish the law breaker who recognized the truth about afghanistan was not being accurately presented to the public - and possibly the congress
this leak has negative implications only for the politicians who advocate more of the same in afghanistan. this is not unlike the pentagon papers being disclosed by ellsberg so that the American public could finally get to the truth about the malaise which was vietnam
i believe this author got it right:
... The documents released by whistleblowers website Wikileaks, contain few huge revelations likely to hurt the administration on their own.

But they paint a picture of chaos in Afghanistan, suggest Pakistani agents helped the Taliban, detail grisly civilian deaths and desperate pleas for support from soldiers under ambush in a hostile land far from home.

The symbolic and political impact of the revelations may therefore be more severe than operational damage to exposed operations.

The White House will likely insist that Obama has no option but to prosecute the effort to deprive Al-Qaeda of an extremist haven to launch attacks -- but also protect his political flank by repeating his desire to start bringing some troops home next year.

But those arguments may not sway restive opinion in Congress, which finances the war effort. ...
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and his conclusion is SO accurate:
... But Obama's plight over Afghanistan is profound, because he has few obvious options.

Should he maintain political support for a costly war where little progress is obvious, Obama will pay a sure political price -- but if he mandates withdrawal, Republicans will brand him soft on terror.
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Afghan leaks hand Obama new political nightmare | Raw Story

Obama is in a catch 22. continue to fight a war we cannot win (like LBJ) or declare victory and retreat (like Nixon)

without the public - and the congress - knowing that what we have been told about afghanistan is bull****, then corrective actions would not be taken. thanks to the patriots who felt compelled to reveal the truth, we now have a better sense of the loss that is afghanistan. the only real question now is how large is that loss going to be, in terms of American lives and national treasure
 
HG, Justa: People who work with classified information give their word to not release that information. It is illegal to do so. You can disagree with whether it should be classified, but you cannot release it. There is no overriding case of public need in this case, and the information mostly just confirms stuff already suspected. There is no excuse in this case for the leakers actions.
 
Redress said:
HG, Justa: People who work with classified information give their word to not release that information. It is illegal to do so. You can disagree with whether it should be classified, but you cannot release it. There is no overriding case of public need in this case, and the information mostly just confirms stuff already suspected. There is no excuse in this case for the leakers actions.
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and some of those people recognize that there is a higher principle than absolutely agreeing not to release information
there are instances in which those who hold access to secret information recognize that the legitimacy of its being stamped secret is to protect those whose wrong actions are hidden by the secret
the coverup the Pat Tillman incident comes to mind
in short, there are times when the application of a security classification is not for the benefit of the nation's security but for the benefit of those who - for their own purposes - want instead to conceal their screwups
 
justabubba said:
and some of those people recognize that there is a higher principle than absolutely agreeing not to release information
there are instances in which those who hold access to secret information recognize that the legitimacy of its being stamped secret is to protect those whose wrong actions are hidden by the secret
the coverup the Pat Tillman incident comes to mind
in short, there are times when the application of a security classification is not for the benefit of the nation's security but for the benefit of those who - for their own purposes - want instead to conceal their screwups
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It is not up to those people to make that determination. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle, once you release the information, if your judgment is in error, there is no way to undue it. There are processes to go through if you think information that is classified should not be. Just deciding to release it is not acceptable.
 
Redress said:
HG, Justa: People who work with classified information give their word to not release that information. It is illegal to do so. You can disagree with whether it should be classified, but you cannot release it. There is no overriding case of public need in this case, and the information mostly just confirms stuff already suspected. There is no excuse in this case for the leakers actions.
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There is no reasonable way that all that information could be kept secret, promise or not, illegal or not.
It's stupid to have so many secrets with so many people that know them, eventually it all comes out one way or another.
 
Redress said:
It is not up to those people to make that determination. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle, once you release the information, if your judgment is in error, there is no way to undue it. There are processes to go through if you think information that is classified should not be. Just deciding to release it is not acceptable.
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because there are many who feel as you do, that wikileaks is now available is a boon to truthtelling
 
j-mac said:
Hmmmm....I see. And if and when this information released is tied back to the death of some American troops, will he still be a patriot?

j-mac
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Good luck with that. If the American right couldn't prove how Michael Moore movies are putting our troops in danger the chances of them tying this to the death of an American troop are just as minimal.
 
WikiLeaks' founder Julian Assange said the documents are "legitimate," but he added that it is important not to take their contents at face value.

"We publish CIA reports all the time that are legitimate CIA reports. That doesn't mean the CIA is telling the truth," he said.
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It's a shame someone can't leak MI5/6 reports

The mere fact the founder redacted names that may have put individuals at harm seems to me to be responsible journalism. Good on Wikileaks.
 
Laila said:
It's a shame someone can't leak MI5/6 reports

The mere fact the founder redacted names that may have put individuals at harm seems to me to be responsible journalism. Good on Wikileaks.
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WikiLeaks is pretty good, better than most main stream media outlets.
They usually don't do incredibly stupid stuff.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
WikiLeaks is pretty good, better than most main stream media outlets.
They usually don't do incredibly stupid stuff.
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Oh I agree.
I value Wikileaks more than any other media outlet. They also ensured to release documents months old
 
PeteEU said:
Ahh good to know you are against free speech and all that wiz bang..

You do know that all the material released had only Top Secret classification right? The lowest secret classification there is...
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First off, you're not even an American, so what do you know? Second, illegally releasing classified material isn't protected under the 1st Amendment.

Everyone involved in the release of this information needs to prosecuted and if found guilty, face the death penalty.
 
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