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Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

I realize over in Iran they are still stoning people to death but we are not in Iran so why on Earth should we put the label of a 3rd world country on the shoulders of the large and peaceful group of American Muslims. I am absolutley sick of hearing "They still stone people to death". Yeah they do, in Iran not the U.S.A. I personally do not support religion one bit but it's here to stay during my lifetime and I live in a Country that has religious freedom woven into it's fabric. I sure as hell will see to it that every religion is treated fairly. What many of you doing by painting all of Islam as the guilty of 9/11 is wrong.

If a pack of radical Christians were to have rammed Jets into the twin towers we would not see such an objection if a YMCA with a chapel inside it being built within two blocks of the site, You all know you wouldn't appose that. It comes down to the core of religion. You all think that Muslims are misguided and on the wrong path, how would they find popularity in an overwhelmingly Christian country? You see, Islam has just as much of a chance being true as Christianity. Which is why I think it's laughable about how some of you argue about which religion is better, American Muslims are good people they are not like there counterparts in the middle east so quit putting that label on them.

I'll offer one more backup for the infiltration theory. Western nations have a modern belief in freedom of religion. Islamic immigrants and converts take advantage of that by trumpeting every opposition as a violation of their religious rights. And we let them do it. How many Muslim clerics and congregations(?) have condemned the terrorism, killing and most recently, the mutilations of Americans in Iraq? How many condemn terrorist action in Israel? Don't hold your breath.

Let me also contrast the Muslim traitors we have experienced in our own military in the last two years to the complete loyalty exhibited by Japanese Americans in WWII.
 
Arcana XV;1058881252 said:
I don't really understand what that's got to do with the way our political system is structured. You don't know much about my country, do you? :lol:





And yet there's nothing they can do to stop it. Oh, darn. Well, rail against my little corner of the world all you want for past deeds, but at least here the people run the country. It's not my fault your politicians have more power than you do. :lol:

Don't get ahead of yourself. Hmm.... I see, you are from Switzerland

Didn't you guys approve a constitutional ban on Mosque Minarets last year? FOXNews.com - Switzerland Defends Ban on Mosque Minarets

It's not my fault YOUR politicians have more power than you do. :lol:
 
You cannot, under any circumstances, simply ban a religion.

All you can do is ban whatever religious practices violate the rights of others.

We'll see it sometime in the future..;)

Religious freedom is very important. BUT religious freedom does not give you carte blanch to disregard and trample other's rights.

Islam as a totalitarian social movement is dangerous.
 
That has to be one of the worst excuses I've heard on this issue. That's like saying a church isn't a church its just a community center with an area to pray in lol

I'd make fun of your oversimplification, but ArcanaXV said it better than I could've.

You did manage to separate those nasty Jooz from all their money a few decades ago and you are currently harboring a ciminal who bought a pardon from Clinton. Well done.

Holy cow, ArcanaXV is a SEKRET NAZI LEPRECHAUN with JOO gold that still has JOO blood on it!

:shock:

:lol:

Seriously, I don't think you want to get into a US vs Switzerland atrocity contest. We've done some pretty dirty deeds, too.

And they have. IN SPADES. They don't want it.

Wow, you mean that when somebody buys a piece of property with private money, and wants to build something on it with private money which fits the building codes and is zoned properly, the average Joe on the street doesn't get to tell them NO?

Well, hell.

I'm just shocked!

:lol:
 
Don't get ahead of yourself. Hmm.... I see, you are from Switzerland

Didn't you guys approve a constitutional ban on Mosque Minarets last year? FOXNews.com - Switzerland Defends Ban on Mosque Minarets

It's not my fault YOUR politicians have more power than you do. :lol:


Dude, you're making my case for me.

This was a popular initiative. Signatures were collected and a referendum vote was held. The results are constitutionally binding. The government DID NOT WANT this law to pass. The PEOPLE of this country always have the final say and the constitution was changed after the popular vote. I may not be happy about the result, personally. But our system of democracy was respected and I have no choice but to accept it. That doesn't change the fact that the people of Switzerland have ALWAYS held more power than their government. I am perfectly free to go out tomorrow and collect signatures to try and reverse the vote. If I'm successful and a majority of people vote for my initiative, the constitution will be changed once again. Do you understand that all it takes in this country to change the constitution is a popular vote?

And you try to tell me that our politicians have any power whatsoever? Now THAT is comedy GOLD! :lol::lol::lol:
 
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Dude, you're making my case for me.

This was a popular initiative. Signatures were collected and a referendum vote was held. The results are constitutionally binding. The government DID NOT WANT this law to pass. The PEOPLE of this country always have the final say and the constitution was changed after the popular vote. I may not be happy about the result, personally. But our system of democracy was respected and I have no choice but to accept it. That doesn't change the fact that the people of Switzerland have ALWAYS held more power than their government. I am perfectly free to go out tomorrow and collect signatures to try and reverse the vote. If I'm successful and a majority of people vote for my initiative, the constitution will be changed once again. Do you understand that all it takes in this country to change the constitution is a popular vote?

And you try to tell me that our politicians have any power whatsoever? Now THAT is commedy GOLD! :lol::lol::lol:

Dammit, beat me to it. :lol:
 
Are you saying they're NOT building a community center?

Weird.

Do you enjoy looking foolish? I'm sure there are bathrooms too but it is a Mosque.

I've never heard of a church with a swimming pool, a bookstore and restaurants in it.

Americans are funny. :lol:

And the Swiss need some help. If you can't tell this is a mosque you've got real problems.

Why would an Imam already be assigned if its a community center?

Seriosuly, your lack of basic facts is really sad.

I don't really understand what that's got to do with the way our political system is structured. You don't know much about my country, do you? :lol:

Actually I do know quite a bit and since you couldn't refute any of the points I made about your country you just confirmed it. Thank you :)

And yet there's nothing they can do to stop it. Oh, darn. Well, rail against my little corner of the world all you want for past deeds, but at least here the people run the country. It's not my fault your politicians have more power than you do. :lol:

LOL Really. So the people require you to have permits, obey the law and pay taxes and not a government? Wow! Take me to your fantasy land! :D

And yes we can do something about it. We can demand they come up with where the money is coming from because its a good bet it comes from countries that support terrorism.
 
Um, no, because as ArcanaXV pointed out, the minarette ban was put to a public vote. The politicians did not institute it.

The point he was making was who enforced it. The people don't do that and it goes against was Arcana said about the people vs the politicians.

No one people run a country, the politicians do.
 
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The point he was making was who enforced it. The people don't do that and it goes against was Arcana said about the people vs the politicians.

No one people run a country, the politicians do.

Um, no, he was totally confused about what body of individuals instituted the ban to begin with.

If you didn't see that, you're more confused than Ric is.
 
Do you enjoy looking foolish?

Do you? Cuz you're really good at it. :D


I'm sure there are bathrooms too but it is a Mosque.

No, it's not. It's a community center. With a Mosque in it. Among other things.

And the Swiss need some help. If you can't tell this is a mosque you've got real problems.

Why would an Imam already be assigned if its a community center?

Because there's a Mosque in it. I'm sure they'll have swimming instructors too. And
cooks. Now that's something you see everyday in a Mosque. :lol:



Actually I do know quite a bit and since you couldn't refute any of the points I made about your country you just confirmed it. Thank you :)

I have zero problems talking about my country's past misdeeds. This thread, however, is not the place to do that. Switzerland's actions in WWII have nothing to do with the subject matter being discussed here. The only reason I alluded to our political love affair with compromise and consensus is because I was responding to Harry Guerrilla, who's expressed an interest for my country in past discussions.

As for the "criminal" you say we harbor, if he was pardoned he's not a criminal anymore. But again, please create another thread if you want to pursue this, thread derailment is not really my thing.

LOL Really. So the people require you to have permits, obey the law and pay taxes and not a government? Wow! Take me to your fantasy land! :D

You say you know something about Switzerland, this comment is proof that you absolutely don't. Basically, the answer to your question is a big fat YES! Absolutely nothing gets done in this country without the people voting to approve it. We vote on practically every single issue, even whether or not to raise taxes.

And yes we can do something about it. We can demand they come up with where the money is coming from because its a good bet it comes from countries that support terrorism.

Well, we can collect enough signatures to prevent them from building anything to begin with. Hop Suisse! :mrgreen:
 
Um, no, he was totally confused about what body of individuals instituted the ban to begin with.

If you didn't see that, you're more confused than Ric is.

That's okay. Switzerland's political system is complicated enough even for us to understand, I don't really expect outsiders to really grasp how it actually works.
 
Totally fair, but you'd at least expect them to admin that they don't know what they're talking about, right?

All it takes is some quick research online to learn the basics. I'm sure once they do that, they'll see what I mean. Our system is very complicated in many ways, especially at the cantonal level, but the federal system is not so difficult to understand. We're the last bastion of direct democracy on the planet, I can totally dig that people used to a different sort of democracy have a hard time understanding what it means in practice.
 
So you condone illegal actions against a group that had nothing to do with 9/11. Got it, how very un-American of you.

Your comments make me and many other true Americans sick.

True Americans? Puh-leeeeze.... You ARE sick.
 
Hmmmm....No I don't think I do....


Twelvers / Ithna Ashari Islam

j-mac

How do you know they're not Discordians in disguise? :lol:

Seriously, tho, that is but one sect. And a Shiite one to boot. I thought the main problem was with fundamentalist Sunni Islam? At least that's what I've been led to believe by all those rightwing think tanks.
 
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How do you know they're not Discordians in disguise? :lol:

Seriously, tho, that is but one sect. And a Shiite one to boot. I thought the main problem was with fundamentalist Sunni Islam? At least that's what I've been led to believe by all those rightwing think tanks.


Right wing think tanks eh? The 'twelvers' make up around 85% of all Shi'ia sect, which is the majority of Muslims do you dispute that?


j-mac
 
What the heck are you talking about? The majority of Muslims are Sunni, not Shiite.


:3oops: It doesn't change the fact that your original post that I took issue with was blown out of the water by the existence of the twelvers.


j-mac
 
Looking for specific prosecutions of adultery would be a waste of time. It's not a matter of any serious dispute. As for the life sentence, it makes as much sense as a life sentence for drugs and is no more puritanical.

I'm not a fan of anti-drug legislation but to try to compare trafficking in Schedule II and higher narcotics (which is the only conceivable way you could get a life sentence for it) to consensual sexual intercourse is laughable and just goes to show how desperate you are to defend a barbaric ideology.

You're one of those people who doesn't see the difference between forcing women to wear the burka in public and forcing women to wear a top in public huh?
The point about colonial laws is that they were a product of our culture and religion, the same culture that produced the Constitution and the United States.

The last time I checked John Locke wasn't a puritan. Furthermore; laws that existed before the formation of the United States prove nothing about the United States.

Fundamentalist ideas, or whatever you want to call them, don't necessarily make a society incapable of democratic self-rule.

Quakers had more of an influence than the Puritans and Quakers were socially liberal.
 
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