I think big FARM business is in favor of illegals. "Big Business," as in the definition I personally would ascribe to it, really shouldn't favor them because, in most cases, it would make no difference. They have labor contracts that spell out what workers get paid, so there'd be no advantage there. And what advantage would they have to hire non-English-speaking workers?
Entrepreneurs and small businesses probably favor them because they can pay them less. And, better yet, can pay them off the books so they avoid payroll taxes. Just figuring FICA, they'd save, what? 7% of their salary? No health insurance, no unemployment taxes. But only small businesses can get away with that. Big businesses would never take that risk, even if they weren't hog-tied by union contracts.
Excellent point.Exactly. Large companies avoid the complexities of illegal workers like the plague because big corporations have the cash to interest government investigators and the little businesses don't.
Deportation is an expensive and ineffective strategy. It is not even worth doing until the demand for their labor is dealt with. Once the demand for their labor is reduced to virtually nothing, you can get an idea of how large the remaining problem will be, and thereby determine how many resources to direct at it.
Here is what I predict, if Obama does what is necessary to dry up the demand: There will be a lot more poor, desperate Mexicans. Some of these people will become involved in the violent supply of drugs across the border. However, on the plus side, illegal immigration for other purposes will come to a virtual halt. Overall, illegal border crossings will drastically decline. This will give whatever administration that is in place greater political cover to take more aggressive measures to secure the border. That is, we can get more aggressive about security with less damage to our relations with Mexico.
Now, if we would get rid of the demand for illegal drugs, we could avoid a large portion of the negative consequences of having additional poor, desperate people hanging about the border. There is only one way to do that: Legalize the drugs and have the government temporarily take over the manufacture and distribution of them.
Then, maybe we could focus with Mexico on finding a real solution for the fact that Mexico has a lot of poor, desperate people.
[/B]Part of the problem is that this is not an either or problem which is going to be solved with an either or solution. This has to be seal the borders AND target employers AND find a path to some form of legal citizen status AND encourage mexico to engage the problem as a partner and not just as the bleeding end of gushing artery. Its not going to be solved by "arrest them all and deport them" rhetoric, nor will it be solved by "anyone that targets illegal immigration is a racist" rhetoric.
How on God's green earth is this a good idea?
From the article:
While the sweeps of the past commonly led to the deportation of such workers, the “silent raids,” as employers call the audits, usually result in the workers being fired, but in many cases they are not deported.
What is the point if you don't pick them up? How many have criminal records? How many will simply move to another job? No, this is a terrible idea that solves nothing. The illegals are still in country and not picked up.
Its a complete farce and once again proves Obama cares nothing about the law if they are simply fired.
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This has to be seal the borders AND target employers AND find a path to some form of legal citizen status AND encourage mexico to engage the problem as a partner and not just as the bleeding end of gushing artery. Its not going to be solved by "arrest them all and deport them" rhetoric, nor will it be solved by "anyone that targets illegal immigration is a racist" rhetoric.
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Well now how is that possible? mexico is a socialist utopia and we are rushing headlong into becoming the same thing. We have too many social services, too much social spending, unemployment is high and getting higher. The wealthy do well (for now) but how long til the housing bubble finally pops? We cant fix ourselves...and we should focus on fixing them?
Im all for targeting employers...but the only thing worse than having 35 million illegal immigrants in your country is having 35 million UNEMPLOYED and dependent illegal immigrants. And how many states still provide those social services to illegals without collecting taxes to pay for them?
Part of the problem is that this is not an either or problem which is going to be solved with an either or solution. This has to be seal the borders AND target employers AND find a path to some form of legal citizen status AND encourage mexico to engage the problem as a partner and not just as the bleeding end of gushing artery. Its not going to be solved by "arrest them all and deport them" rhetoric, nor will it be solved by "anyone that targets illegal immigration is a racist" rhetoric.
Deport an illegal worker (costs $) on Monday and he'll be back on the job on Thursday. That's what's been going on for a long time. The employer fines need to be substantial. That word would travel fast.
If there's a Socialist Utopia - where everyone is equal pay/equal rights - then why are they fleeing it in such large numbers?
Not to derail the thread, but....You can't have just a little socialism. It always grows...always. Hell, let's cut to the chase: The sequence of steps that's going to run the, US into the ground is the weight of socialistic programs such social security and medicare.
It won't be illegal immigrants, al qaeda or the dumbasses over at handgun control.
I disagree. Illegals will just flee to wherever is not being affected by raids.
The Seattle Times: Local News: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices
More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.
You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.
The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.
The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.
Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.
At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.
And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ½ hours for an acre of wheat.
I agree...all you have to do is look at the blue states and you can see it happening already.
I dont agree that you cant have positive social programs...but they should be local and state run (or better yet PRIVATELY funded and run...let those that bleat on about liberal ideologies put their money where their motuh is) and designed for short term hand UP situations...not long term programs to keep the pets (voters) crippled and dependent on the federal govt for their support and sustainment.
If education wasnt paid for by the Fed gov (not taken out of our taxes) and was ruled by market forces, not only would we have higher quality of education, but we would remove one big incentive for the pesky illegals. Health..same result. Leave it entirely to the free market and with NO minimum wage laws, you would remove a large part of the demand for illegal labor. They would run more efficiently meaning.... more products to more americans for less money. You would also increase output and hire more people