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Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

A reason for what?


Not to believe what?

All I have done, here, is to present factors that any intelligent person already knows is part of the picture, and that are completely ignored by the simplistic information presented. Methinks that it is YOU who is looking for an excuse not to believe. You just readily accept ANYTHING that confirms what you've already decided.

If you were truelky intellegent as you claim you wouldn't be in favror of a non descriptive "measured pace". Phoenix is the kidnapping captial of North America due to illegals and drugs. There are new signs in Arizona's southwest warning citizens to keep out because they are high traffic areas for illegals and drugs. Police are being regularly shot at with automatic weapons from coyotes and drug cartels inside our own border.

Your inability to come to terms with the reality on the ground is precicly what I am talking about. Action must be taken now. You are so disconnected living so far from a southern border state you can't even comprehend what Americans are facing down here.
 
Temporarily. Until we ramp up to include whatever we leave aside at first.





Perhaps you are right. But, I am unconvinced, because I am not being presented with a complete picture, here. In all of your quote, nothing is said that measures the effect of inflation on wages that would occur as a result of a decrease in supply of workers. This inflation on wages could greatly increase the legal worker expenditures shown in the information you present.

Nothing you present addresses this effect to either refute its significance or confirm it.

In addition, the effect could also force wages up in other industries as they all compete for the same workers. This is another hidden cost of effective illegal immigration policies. The information you present ignores this effect as well.

Finally, IF wages increase at a fast pace on the low end, then general inflation will also increase. This will force the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates in response. This could start or extend a recession.

Effective illegal immigration policies would represent a major shift in the labor markets. I admit that I don't know what the full effects would be, but your article is entirely simplistic, so you obviously don't either.

None of which is to say that I think we shouldn't have effective policies. Just that we may need to pace them intelligently.

Actually, my bad!! The article does address some of the issues I raised!! To be fair (to myself), my browser screwed me up. I didn't see that the article was as extensive as it is.

Here is a quote:
Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.

A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.

But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run — dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)

If illegal workers disappeared from the apple harvest and wages for the remaining legal workers rose by 40 percent in response — and that entire wage increase were passed on to the consumer — that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.

On Construction:

If the supply of illegal workers were cut off, wages for those low-skilled jobs presumably would have to rise enough to attract legal workers into them. If, hypothetically, wage levels rose by a third, that would either add around $1,600 to the cost of the typical house or shave half a percentage point off the builder's 12 percent average profit margin.

I take it back. I think that we can probably proceed with new effective policies without fear of serious economic problem.
 
You want people to be happy with token raids that only give the employer a slap on the wrist with a free bus ticket home for the illegals and a sparsely guarded border? Why does it make sense to say here criminal enjoy your free ticket home,see ya soon? Illegal immigration requires more than just deportation and token raids. It requires the following-
1.seriously cracking down on those who hire illegals
2.jailing illegals who are caught, it takes two to tango and illegals are just as guilty as those that hire them.
3.denying tax payer funded services to illegals. That means no food handlers permits, driver's licenses,permits, business permits, building permits or any other permit, welfare,section 8 housing, foodstamps, car tag renewal and other service.
4.allowing local police to verify the legal status of those they stop for a traffic offense or some other form of lawful contact
5.Jailing those who harbor and or aid illegals and this includes the politicians who have their tongues in so deep when tossing the salad of illegals and pro-illegals.
6.Require financial institutions such as banks, check cashing places and money wiring services to verify the legal status of those they do business with.[If illegals are denied tax payer funded services then mostly these places should only have to check a driver's license/ID and a social security card.]
7.Require property owners to verify the legal status of those they rent,sell,lend or give property to.[If illegals are denied tax payer funded services then mostly these places should only have to check a driver's license/ID and a social security card.]
8.Require those selling a to verify that person buying a car has a valid drivers license.



You do not have to put 12-20 million illegals in jail, just the ones that are caught and those caught hiring them in jail. If you adequately crack down on both parties involved you remove the incentive for employers to hire illegals and for illegals to get jobs in the US. Employers will not want to hire illegals and illegals will not want to risk going to jail for six months or longer. When the US has seriously cracked down on illegals and those that harbor them they will deport themselves like with Operation Wetback in 1954 and Mexican Repatriation in the 1928-1939. You do not have to round up all 12-20 million plus illegals nor do you have to jail all of them.

I am now leaning toward believing that all these measures should be put in place as soon as possible.
 
If you were truelky intellegent as you claim you wouldn't be in favror of a non descriptive "measured pace". Phoenix is the kidnapping captial of North America due to illegals and drugs. There are new signs in Arizona's southwest warning citizens to keep out because they are high traffic areas for illegals and drugs. Police are being regularly shot at with automatic weapons from coyotes and drug cartels inside our own border.

Your inability to come to terms with the reality on the ground is precicly what I am talking about. Action must be taken now. You are so disconnected living so far from a southern border state you can't even comprehend what Americans are facing down here.

Oh, you are too funny by far. I have lived in Los Angeles, and still have many ties there. I also have ties in Houston, TX.

As to the problem with violence along the border: It will probably increase as we gut the demand for illegal workers in non-violent industries. Nevertheless, I still believe we should proceed with haste with new reforms.

And to deal with the violence, there is only ONE solution, which I have already advocated in an earlier post to this thread. You act as though I hadn't already addressed these problems, because again, you see only what you want to see.
 
I think it is worth applauding. It's tackling the problem from the right end, and it has, based on the article, been a more effective use of manpower as far as finding illegals. Further it goes after those companies that hire illegals, which I think is a good thing. It's only flaw is that it does not go far enough. So it's a good thing, that falls short of being a great thing.

See, I think its going after ONE of the right ends. However, to start going after that right end they've stopped going after the other right end.

I agree, the correct action is punishing the businesses AND the illegals. This is focusing on just one side of it, and I can't fully get behind it unless there's some kind of evidence its actually having an affect on anyone other than the businesses its targeting.
 
See, I think its going after ONE of the right ends. However, to start going after that right end they've stopped going after the other right end.

I agree, the correct action is punishing the businesses AND the illegals. This is focusing on just one side of it, and I can't fully get behind it unless there's some kind of evidence its actually having an affect on anyone other than the businesses its targeting.

Well, it's hard to find evidence that there's an effect before you actually create the cause. Maybe we'll see the effect in six months.
 
Oh, you are too funny by far. I have lived in Los Angeles, and still have many ties there. I also have ties in Houston, TX.

Then you should know better.

As to the problem with violence along the border: It will probably increase as we gut the demand for illegal workers in non-violent industries. Nevertheless, I still believe we should proceed with haste with new reforms.

Because you don't live there now thats so easy to say which has been and is my point.

And to deal with the violence, there is only ONE solution, which I have already advocated in an earlier post to this thread. You act as though I hadn't already addressed these problems, because again, you see only what you want to see.

I only deal with what you have said. a measured response is not the statement of someone who actually knows how dangerous the situation is I don't care how long you spent in Houston or LA.

Your inability to deal with the here and now speaks volumes.

And I have read the thread and you never once dealt with the current violence so don't make up things you never addressed.
 
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http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=.../www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html





Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.

SEEMS being the operative word.
With a reported 11,000,000 illegal immigrants in the US, wonder how many Obama is quietly compelling to voluntarily leave US.
A total fine of $3,000,000 from 2900 firms means on average each firm paid $1034.48.
Now would that be the fine for each Illegal employed?
 
SEEMS being the operative word.
With a reported 11,000,000 illegal immigrants in the US, wonder how many Obama is quietly compelling to voluntarily leave US.
A total fine of $3,000,000 from 2900 firms means on average each firm paid $1034.48.
Now would that be the fine for each Illegal employed?

No idea, of course I have no reason to suspect this will be the limit of this tactic. Continuous pressure/scrutiny and repeated fines would probably make any employer reconsider their hiring practices.

This definitely seems like a more efficient method than having forty agents kick a door down.
 
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How do you prove the employeer knew the person was an illegal when that person presents id and a social with a stolen identity?

Because of privacy laws in just about every state a private individual does no have the right to check the drivers license or ID of a person.

How can an employeer be held responsible for that?
 
Because you don't live there now thats so easy to say which has been and is my point.
Saying that I am wrong because I don't live there is not a 'point'. I mean, really, whose experience should I believe? Mine? Yours? My Relatives who still live there? My Friends? All the opinions are different, but none that I have heard agree with you that the situation is so dire that the world is going to end tomorrow if we take a ramped up response as opposed to a dramatic sweep.

You keep bringing up that I don't live there, but you don't address my points. What do YOU think is going to happen with the illegal workers when there is no longer demand for non-violent employment? What do YOU think they are going to do? Melt back into Mexico? Explain it to us, if you're so right. It should be a simple matter, if it is so obvious.

Easy for me to say what? That violence will increase because all the illegal workers in non-violent jobs are made more readily available to be worker for the violent cartels?

I only deal with what you have said. a measured response is not the statement of someone who actually knows how dangerous the situation is I don't care how long you spent in Houston or LA.

Your inability to deal with the here and now speaks volumes.
Fine. Go on blundering about your life without thinking things through. If that works for you, great. But, its not going to convince me of anything here in this conversation.

And I have read the thread and you never once dealt with the current violence so don't make up things you never addressed.
I talked about a solution to the current and possible increase in violence.

You do realize that the violence along the border is not going to go away as long as there is demand for the drugs here in the U.S, right? You're so convinced that its the fault of those awful Mexicans here illegally, simply because the two problems coincide right now. But, the violence won't end once there are zero illegal immigrants. Ultimately, they will find some way to meet the demand, here. Some way around the system we put in place. Forgive me if I'm not that interested in big spending for such misguided and doomed to fail efforts.

The violence along the border is mostly a result of demand for illegal drugs. If we are to make any headway at all toward a solution, we must either end the demand for drugs or end the illegality of them. Now, which of those two things do we as a society really have control over? How HAS keeping drugs illegal been working out for us?

What ARE you suggesting we do about the fact that all the workers we put out of work will be available and more willing than ever to work for the cartels? The thing that separates us from the animals is that we aren't only stuck in the "here and now", but that we are able to anticipate and plan for consequences. Show me that you're not just a monkey typing away at a keyboard.
 
How do you prove the employeer knew the person was an illegal when that person presents id and a social with a stolen identity?

Because of privacy laws in just about every state a private individual does no have the right to check the drivers license or ID of a person.

How can an employeer be held responsible for that?

Thats a tough one...

Employers *managers* are supposed to verify citizenship in order to hire people, but some ignore the falsity of the documents beforehand, or someone uses a stolen ID from some citizen.

Once, the illegal flashes his stolen *insert state* license, its a done deal. On the other side (business wise) employers can only go on the documents in front of them. They will bitch about not being immigration document specialists..."I'm not trained for this ****", "How am I going to know?", "it's not my ****ing job", etc, etc
 
How do you prove the employeer knew the person was an illegal when that person presents id and a social with a stolen identity?

Because of privacy laws in just about every state a private individual does no have the right to check the drivers license or ID of a person.

How can an employeer be held responsible for that?

... pretty damned good question, actually. Hadn't thought of that.
Although there are certainly employers who don't bother asking for SSN's. Those guys deserve a legal ass-kicking. Anyone who pays anyone "under the table" deserves it. I didn't spend all these tax dollars building roads and schools so that you could skip out on paying taxes.
 
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Except that with this policy we not only have illegal aliens...we have unemployed illegal aliens. That's better.
:shock:

The hope is they'll stop coming if they can't get jobs. The ones already here? Well... maybe they'll go home? :/
 
Saying that I am wrong because I don't live there is not a 'point'.

Actually it is when you consider your lackluster response to the problem.

I mean, really, whose experience should I believe? Mine? Yours? My Relatives who still live there? My Friends? All the opinions are different, but none that I have heard agree with you that the situation is so dire that the world is going to end tomorrow if we take a ramped up response as opposed to a dramatic sweep.

Stop being melodramatic. Everyone knows what to do. You either do it or you delay it. You want delay. I want action because people are being hurt right now.

You keep bringing up that I don't live there, but you don't address my points.

Make a point and I'll adress it. So far you've stayed as general as possible with the only "point" being you want a delayed response.

What do YOU think is going to happen with the illegal workers when there is no longer demand for non-violent employment? What do YOU think they are going to do? Melt back into Mexico? Explain it to us, if you're so right. It should be a simple matter, if it is so obvious.

Actually it is. They will leave and go home. Observe.

Many of the cars that once stopped in the Home Depot parking lot to pick up day laborers to hang drywall or do landscaping now just drive on by.

Arizona's sweeping immigration bill allows police to arrest illegal immigrant day laborers seeking work on the street or anyone trying to hire them. It won't take effect until summer but it is already having an effect on the state's underground economy.

"Nobody wants to pick us up," Julio Loyola Diaz says in Spanish as he and dozens of other men wait under the shade of palo verde trees and lean against a low brick wall outside the east Phoenix home improvement store.

Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants.


Illegal Immigrants Leaving Arizona Over New Law - CBS News

See what happens when action is taken and people don't live in the world of theory like you do?

Easy for me to say what? That violence will increase because all the illegal workers in non-violent jobs are made more readily available to be worker for the violent cartels?

hahaha What a defeatist attitude you have. We can't get rid of their jobs because then the drug cartels will employ them and we can't deport them because its mean.

I'll tell you what. You find an article talking about the employee problems within the Cartels and I'll wait laughing here while you try and find something to back up your rediculus claim.

Fine. Go on blundering about your life without thinking things through. If that works for you, great. But, its not going to convince me of anything here in this conversation.

See what is your problem. We have thought things through because we live with it down here every day. Just because you are new at this doesn't mean we are going to slow down and drawn it in crayon until you catch up.

I talked about a solution to the current and possible increase in violence.

No you didn't. And you never addressed how we would combat the voilence.

You do realize that the violence along the border is not going to go away as long as there is demand for the drugs here in the U.S, right? You're so convinced that its the fault of those awful Mexicans here illegally, simply because the two problems coincide right now. But, the violence won't end once there are zero illegal immigrants. Ultimately, they will find some way to meet the demand, here. Some way around the system we put in place. Forgive me if I'm not that interested in big spending for such misguided and doomed to fail efforts.

I know drugs would be a hell of lot higher in cost if the borders were secure. I know that the illegals employed to bring the drugs would be fewer and far between if the chance they would be deported rose sharply. Again we are back to you wanting to do nothing because its "hard". Well we can't wait for you to catch up with what we already know.

The violence along the border is mostly a result of demand for illegal drugs. If we are to make any headway at all toward a solution, we must either end the demand for drugs or end the illegality of them. Now, which of those two things do we as a society really have control over? How HAS keeping drugs illegal been working out for us?

The way you make it harder is to control the flow better. Raise the price. Make it harder to bring in. Unfettered access from the border is the first problem. Dealing with addiction is the second.

Easy analogy for you. If there's a hole in the dam do you repair it fist or start bailing out the water?

What ARE you suggesting we do about the fact that all the workers we put out of work will be available and more willing than ever to work for the cartels? The thing that separates us from the animals is that we aren't only stuck in the "here and now", but that we are able to anticipate and plan for consequences. Show me that you're not just a monkey typing away at a keyboard.

If you are going to continue this nonscense about a worker shortage in the Cartels you are going to have to show us all some evidence.

And if you think illegals are only interested in working I've got some sad news for you. Criminals come with them. They rob, rape, and kill. The tighter the border the less we have to deal with criminals as well.


But you and your defeatest attitude don't want to plug the hole, you want to look around at the water coming in and think about it.

Sorry, we can't wait for you.
 
The hope is they'll stop coming if they can't get jobs. The ones already here? Well... maybe they'll go home? :/

They won't leave, they'll stay and figure out a different way to make money.
 
The hope is they'll stop coming if they can't get jobs. The ones already here? Well... maybe they'll go home? :/

Thats why Obama's plan is so stupid. He rounds no one up. We have no idea who these people are or what crimes they could have participated in.

Its about the dumbest "plan" I've ever seen on this issue.
 
Thats why Obama's plan is so stupid. He rounds no one up. We have no idea who these people are or what crimes they could have participated in.

Its about the dumbest "plan" I've ever seen on this issue.

It still attacks the demand for cheap labor rather than the supply of it, something that is worthwhile. If there aren't any jobs to fill, the torrent of border crossings will slow greatly.

Also, saying that the administration is "doing nothing" about the people already here is wrong. They're doing exactly what the last four or five administrations did.

Doing more of both is clearly the best strategy.
 
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It still attacks the demand for cheap labor rather than the supply of it, something that is worthwhile. If there aren't any jobs to fill, the torrent of border crossings will slow greatly.

Also, saying that the administration is "doing nothing" about the people already here is wrong. They're doing exactly what the last four or five administrations did.

Doing more of both is clearly the best strategy.

Its cutting the efficiency of normal raids in half. That makes no sense at all when you simply cut the efficiency of the raids themselves.
 
Its cutting the efficiency of normal raids in half. That makes no sense at all when you simply cut the efficiency of the raids themselves.

Evidence is that the employer-record "raid" is far more efficient than the "kick down employer door" raid, according to the article and whatnot. Which seems reasonable, since looking over paperwork requires far fewer resources than kicking down doors.

It's cutting the door kicking in favor of a better approach. Or so the theory goes. Which method actually has more effect, time will tell.
 
Stop being melodramatic. Everyone knows what to do. You either do it or you delay it. You want delay. I want action because people are being hurt right now.
Actually, in a different conversation in this thread, I have already advocated for immediate and aggressive action. I just don't think that you have ever addressed any of my points and was pointing out that it wasn't because of YOUR arguments that I had taken that stance. Again, you are behind the times: I am an advocate of immediate, thorough and forceful action.



... you want a delayed response.
Saying that I want a delayed response is such a misrepresentation of what I was advocating. I wanted an incremental response because I thought there were too many economic consequences to a comprehensive response. I decided I was wrong about that, and changed my mind. But, I never wanted a delayed response.



Actually it is. They will leave and go home. Observe.

Many of the cars that once stopped in the Home Depot parking lot to pick up day laborers to hang drywall or do landscaping now just drive on by.

Arizona's sweeping immigration bill allows police to arrest illegal immigrant day laborers seeking work on the street or anyone trying to hire them. It won't take effect until summer but it is already having an effect on the state's underground economy.

"Nobody wants to pick us up," Julio Loyola Diaz says in Spanish as he and dozens of other men wait under the shade of palo verde trees and lean against a low brick wall outside the east Phoenix home improvement store.

Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants.


Illegal Immigrants Leaving Arizona Over New Law - CBS News

See what happens when action is taken and people don't live in the world of theory like you do?
Let me help you think this through:
Where do you suppose those people are going?
Where do you suppose they will go when there are no more jobs in the U.S. for them?
As economically poor individuals, what do you suppose they will do once they arrive back in Mexico?
Do you think anyone in Mexico will be interested in making use of these people?

hahaha What a defeatist attitude you have. We can't get rid of their jobs because then the drug cartels will employ them and we can't deport them because its mean.
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I am sure you think that's what I was saying, but it clearly is not. Again, you see what you want to see.

I will help tutor you in reading comprehension: Here are some hints - I did say that some of them would be willing to work for the cartels. I didn't say that we shouldn't proceed with immediate, comprehensive illegal immigrant reform and law enforcement. In fact, I said the opposite. So, why do you suppose I brought up the issue about the cartels and such? Aww, hell, I can't trust you to come up with a sensible answer, so I'll just give it to you: Because I thought it should be something we need to be prepared for and do something about.

I'll tell you what. You find an article talking about the employee problems within the Cartels and I'll wait laughing here while you try and find something to back up your rediculus claim.
Oh please, you are unbelievable. If it is so ridiculous, you should be able to come up with an article that says they have all the employees they could ever wish for.



No you didn't. And you never addressed how we would combat the voilence.
Yes, I did. I addressed it by promoting a solution to neutralize it. Right after I stated that we should still go ahead and proceed with effective immigration law enforcement.

I know drugs would be a hell of lot higher in cost if the borders were secure.
Perhaps. However, they don't have to ship them through the border, and shipping them by plane and sea, although higher, may not be a 'hell of lot' higher.
I know that the illegals employed to bring the drugs would be fewer and far between if the chance they would be deported rose sharply.
That is completely untrue. Why would they care if they were deported when there are no jobs here for them other than drug industry jobs?



The way you make it harder is to control the flow better. Raise the price. Make it harder to bring in.
Why spend all that money getting the price to go up? Just legalize them. Then take over the production and distribution, temporarily. Privatize the industry later if you want.

We have had aggressive drug interdiction efforts before. I see no reason to begin them again.

Unfettered access from the border is the first problem.
No, it isn't.
Dealing with addiction is the second.
This is the first problem. The two problems are separate and don't even need to be related. Legalization would uncouple them.

Easy analogy for you. If there's a hole in the dam do you repair it fist or start bailing out the water?
Drugs are not water and addiction rehabilitation is not the same as 'bailing out water'. Here is why: With a dam you have an actual hope of stemming the flow of water once the dam is repaired. Over the long history of the "drug war", I have seen zero evidence that attempts at stemming the flow of drugs into the country has ever actually succeeded in significantly reducing the flow of drugs. We keep trying, partly because people think drugs are like water and interdiction is like building a dam. But, I really don't want to keep learning the lesson that they are not not the same. Over and over. Here's a bonus question for ya': What is the definition of insanity?





But you and your defeatest attitude don't want to plug the hole, you want to look around at the water coming in and think about it.

Sorry, we can't wait for you.
Sorry, but your straw man has too many holes, and his stuffing keeps falling out. You're not very good at this are you? If you want to keep putting words in my mouth, you'll have to provide evidence. When did I say that I wanted to delay enforcement of immigration laws because of potential problems with strengthening the power of drug cartels? When did I say that I want to think about it while waiting to take action?

Again, I had very specific reasons for wanting to ramp up enforcement, but became differently convinced about those issues. The whole drug thing is not those reasons and I have never said I want to delay, measure, or ramp up enforcement due to this aspect. I specifically stated, when I first voiced the concerns about drug distribution issues, that despite these reservations, I believe that effective enforcement should begin immediately and aggressively. I specifically stated this because I wanted to voice the concerns, but avoid a drawn out idiotic discussion trying to explain that I didn't mention them as a point on which to oppose enforcement, and get on with discussing possible solutions. But, it really was giving you too much credit, I guess.

Yes, here I am explaining THAT I DON'T CONSIDER THE POTENTIAL FOR ADDITIONAL CRIMINAL DRUG DISTRIBUTION PROBLEMS TO BE A REASON TO DELAY, OR IN ANY WAY DILUTE IMMIGRATION LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AT NO POINT DID I EVER TAKE THAT VIEWPOINT.

Sorry to shout, but I am thinking it might help you to hear me.
 
Well, it's hard to find evidence that there's an effect before you actually create the cause. Maybe we'll see the effect in six months.

Indeed, maybe in six months people will actually speak in regards to what actually is happening too rather than now where they're making claims of the brilliance of this with no evidence what so ever but just assuming that its being done in such a way that will actually have an affect.

Take away the jobs and, as we allllll know, they'll go home of their own volition. I love it.

Simple supply and demand.

Good idea. You can't clamp down on illegal immigration unless you attack the main reason they are coming here - Employers who are hiring them.

Yes, in theory it makes sense. If its made wide spread enough and not just a token business here and there in various places to wave a flag saying "we're doing something" while meanwhile there's 5 other businesses right near by that will pick them up, essentially doing nothing but punishing one business to get some money while allowing all the illegals to stay in the country.

Will that happen? Hard to say, but at this points that's as likely as this working and sending them back voluntarily because of "supply and demand". Yet people are reacting to this as if its an unquestioanble truth that Obama is actually doing anything to the level where such a principle will work.
 
Going after employers for breaking the law is a better way than resorting to police state tactics. You want to fix a problem, go after the source. When illegals cant find work they will self deport.
 
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